If masturbation is a grave sin, why isn't gluttony as well?

[Ginkgo100]

You make a fair point. Still, I think what I mean to say is that, if one eats past fullness just a little bit, then says, “No. That is not right, I need to stop.” and does, they aren’t guilty of mortal sin. I think it’s more the awareness thing: Not many people are aware that they are eating past fullness at times. This happens to me, and then it all catches up to me, and I’m like “Oh, shoot. I shouldn’t have done that.” But I am not at fault for mortal sin because I wasn’t fully aware that I was going past my limit…

Well, and human physiology complicates matters further. The feeling of “fullness” is not a quick-acting on-off switch. The time one has spent eating, the type of food eaten, and one’s regular eating habits all affect one’s feeling of fullness, and generally it’s a feeling that comes on gradually. One might be well into a plate of seconds before the “fullness” feeling kicks in completely. Or, for a low-fat and low-fiber meal (like pasta or bread), one will probably be able to eat quite a few more calories before the brain triggers the feeling of fullness.

Complicating matters further is the fact that many of us have been socialized to believe that wasting food is a sin. I don’t think you’ll find a mother in America who has not eaten food she didn’t even want in order to avoid wasting it.

 

[Lexagmor]

I’ve been told by a good priest that wasting food, that is, throwing it away, is a sin, because it is going to waste when it could have been used to feed someone. Sometimes you can’t finish eating what you have, especially at restaurants where portions are much too large. If it is possible, it would be good to save the food for a time when you can better eat it (or give it to someone who would like it/need it). I was also told that eating past full in order to not waste food that would otherwise be thrown away does not constitute a grave sin since you did not want to sin by letting it go to waste. On the other hand, sometimes there is no choice but to throw it away…

I can’t say how glad I am this subject has come up in this thread because it is rarely spoken about despite the ever-increasing portion sizes throughout the country! I needed to know what exactly constitutes gluttony and when it is considered a mortal sin, because it is something many people struggle with, and the CCC is not exactly specific about it (or sloth).

-“All in moderation,” they say, but what is moderation, and should that differ between individuals?
-Is moderation a matter of what your stomach feels? The stomach adapts to a person’s eating habits over time, so what used to be too much can become too little. So maybe what the stomach feels should not,in some cases, be a good indicator of whether gluttony has been committed?
-Is yielding to a craving an act of gluttony if you ate something without being hungry?
-And if gluttony is a capital sin, does that mean that all acts of gluttony are mortal? If not, how does oone discern what kinds of acts of gluttony are venial or mortal?

Alot of questions, I know, but since this is hardly addressed and seeing as it is one of the most frequently committed sins, in my opinion, they need to be asked/answered. It would be much helpful if answers are backed up so that it’s easier to know what is Church fact or personal opinion.

 

[MtnDwellar]

I think that one of the reasons that masturbation is gets more attention than gluttony is simply that more people fall into mortal sin through masturbating. Gluttony is only mortally sinful if, the whole of your life is ordered toward food or it causes grave harm to bodily health.

Ted brings up a good point in that there are not solid biblical references to masturbation. Hence, we rely upon the church for guidance. I have to wonder. Doesn’t lust always accompany masturbation? I really can’t see them separate.

Ted wrote regarding an elderly widower, “his fantasies might just as likely be about a pleasant dinner date as about wild sex with a Playboy centerfold.” I think I may be that elderly widower… The centerfold will be my fantasy every time.

 

[Podo2005]

And furthermore, gluttony causes far greater harm to the individual (and often to his family, and society in general) than masturbation, which is essentially harmless in moderation for a single, unattached person. I think some of the disparity simply reflects the peculiar emphasis that the Catholic Church places on sexual matters.

On the contrary “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” - Matthew 5:28. Masturbation falls under the category of lust and is thus something gravely sinful… it makes one selfish & unable to love a woman which will indeed affect the family. I agree that Gluttony causes great harm to an individual & his family being another grave sin but to say that masturbation is essentially harmless is pure nonsense… they are both grave sins period

 

[Petergray]

Masturbation is bad because it’s a misuse of the sexual faculties, since God intended them as unitive and procreative, and masturbation is neither.

Why can’t the same thing be said for gluttony? One could say that God intended the digestive system as nutritive. If a person is eating simply for pleasure, even when they are full, isn’t that separating function and intention, and so sinful by the same logic that masturbation is?

Ok let me point out one thing, just because loads of people do it DOES NOT in any way shape or form make it right! I know people at my school who amsturbate, yet its a catholic school and it enrages me. If they want eternal life then they will refrain from a few minutes of pleasure and keep faithful. I do not know the teaching on gluttony because i cant think about that but i know a lot of people do bad bad things and dont repent so please can i say to all who read this, please refrain! Its weird how so many people do bad things so please keep out of things like this. and also we have a great God and he is always with us!

God Bless

 

[tr1strev]

Masturbation … makes one selfish & unable to love a woman which will indeed affect the family.

A fairly broad claim, don’t you think? (and obviously directed solely at men).

I think that may be the case if it dominates one’s life to exclusion of his wife and family but that is hardly the norm.

 

[jmcrae]

A fairly broad claim, don’t you think? (and obviously directed solely at men).

Actually, women also commit this sin, with the same effect on their marriages and families. It weakens the bond of marriage.

 

[TedDC]

On the contrary “But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” - Matthew 5:28. Masturbation falls under the category of lust and is thus something gravely sinful… it makes one selfish & unable to love a woman which will indeed affect the family. I agree that Gluttony causes great harm to an individual & his family being another grave sin but to say that masturbation is essentially harmless is pure nonsense… they are both grave sins period

What is your proof for that claim?

 

[Shaken]

Last I heard, gluttony is one of those seven deadly sins.

 

[Joseph629]

I can’t say how glad I am this subject has come up in this thread because it is rarely spoken about despite the ever-increasing portion sizes throughout the country!

Did y’all catch the news yesterday that many millions of young people can’t pass the military physical (in the US) because of overweight? We’re not talking “old” people here, having over-eaten for decades, but young -late teens, early twenties ages. If a sin means that there is something faulty in our behavior, then *someone *is at fault, and someone is sinning.

 

[MtnDwellar]

Did y’all catch the news yesterday that many millions of young people can’t pass the military physical (in the US) because of overweight? We’re not talking “old” people here, having over-eaten for decades, but young -late teens, early twenties ages. If a sin means that there is something faulty in our behavior, then *someone *is at fault, and someone is sinning.

Is this fact another indication of the collective spiritual condition of our nation? Gluttony. Sloth.

 

[Ignatius]

Masturbation is bad because it’s a misuse of the sexual faculties,…
Why can’t the same thing be said for gluttony?

It is. All of the seven deadly (i.e. mortal) sins are mortal sins.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

It is. All of the seven deadly (i.e. mortal) sins are mortal sins.

Butwhat’s hard to understand is that point at which a specific act becomes gravely sinful. It’s easy to say that a single act of masturbation is mortally sinful. But is a single afternoon of “goofing off” when there are things one should be doing a clear mortal sin of sloth? Is one over-indulgent dinner a mortal sin of gluttony? It seems that outside of the sexual area, it’s far less clear when one of these other “deadly sins” in fact become “deadly.”

 

[Lycorth]

I have not met any Catholics IRL who do not know that gluttony is a sin.

An all-you-can-eat dinner is not gluttony.

I can eat a small portion of spaghetti and be done. My teenaged son may still be hungry after 3 plates. All you can eat means eat til you are satisfied not “eat til you puke then go shove down some more”.

Those TV shows where people have hot dog eating contests? THAT is gluttony.

Great response.

Gluttony is most certainly a capital or mortal sin - we just don’t hear about it like we do masturbation since lust is much more titillating and “exotic” to the human mind than overeating to the point of waste. However, since gluttony is on the list of the Seven Deadly Sins, it is most certainly a mortal sin to engage in wasteful overeating while others starve or at the least your own body doesn’t require you to overeat wastefully.

 

[Joseph629]

Is one over-indulgent dinner a mortal sin of gluttony? It seems that outside of the sexual area, it’s far less clear when one of these other “deadly sins” in fact become “deadly.”

What about drunkeness? I’ve always felt that people must have over-indulged with wine at the Cana wedding feast. First of all they ran out. You ‘ALWAYS’ make sure you have enough wine at a Jewish wedding, AND 2nd, that was a heck of a lot of wine Jesus produced.

 

[Lycorth]

Drinking wine doesn’t always lead to drunkeness, nor is drinking wine a sin, nor is wine itself sinful to produce or possess. The wedding guests could easily drink moderately, and probably did.

Playing with one’s self for sexual pleasure, however, is a sin. There’s no moderation with that.

 

[ProVobis]

I’ve confessed to overeating several times and I’m not overweight. Church’s rules, you commit a grave sin, you need to go to confession before receiving communion. If you try to rationalize it by saying you weren’t completely aware or fully consent, you’ll only be driving yourself crazy with guilt. Better to confess and be done with it.

 

[Podo2005]

What is your proof for that claim?

That Masturbation makes one selfish? well for starters any sin is an offence against God which separates us from Him… & the farther we go away from Him the more godless & selfish we become. Consequently we affect others

**1849 **Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as “an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law.”

408 The consequences of original sin and of all men’s personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John’s expression, “the sin of the world”.300 This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men’s sins.301

Also as proof I list that quote from Matthew Chapter 5 verse 28… masturbation is a manifestation of lust (there would be no reason to masturbate otherwise…) and is listed under the category of lust in the Catechism of the Catholic Church

**2351 ***Lust *is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Masturbation is something done by oneself for oneself; it is completely selfish. It contrary to the will of God in that it contradicts the selfless love that a man is supposed to have for a woman in regards to sexual matters.

**2352 **By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

 

[Podo2005]

Butwhat’s hard to understand is that point at which a specific act becomes gravely sinful. It’s easy to say that a single act of masturbation is mortally sinful. But is a single afternoon of “goofing off” when there are things one should be doing a clear mortal sin of sloth? Is one over-indulgent dinner a mortal sin of gluttony? It seems that outside of the sexual area, it’s far less clear when one of these other “deadly sins” in fact become “deadly.”

Perhaps… does that somehow take away the sinfulness of masturbation?

 

[TedDC]

[Proof] That Masturbation makes one selfish? well for starters any sin is an offence against God which separates us from Him… & the farther we go away from Him the more godless & selfish we become. Consequently we affect others.

**1849 **Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as “an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law.”

408 The consequences of original sin and of all men’s personal sins put the world as a whole in the sinful condition aptly described in St. John’s expression, “the sin of the world”.300 This expression can also refer to the negative influence exerted on people by communal situations and social structures that are the fruit of men’s sins.301

You’re just quoting Church teaching that masturbation is a sin - that’s hardly proof of anything except that the Church says masturbation is a sin. Do you have any objective evidence that masturbation makes one selfish?

Also as proof I list that quote from Matthew Chapter 5 verse 28… masturbation is a manifestation of lust (there would be no reason to masturbate otherwise…) and is listed under the category of lust in the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Again, you’re just quoting what the Church says. The problem with much Church teaching is that it’s declarative, not explanatory. It doesn’t offer proof; it just makes a statement, or gives reasoning that’s merely based on other Church teachings.

And masturbation is not necessarily a manifestation of lust. People also masturbate as a result of simple loneliness, or because of stress.

**2351 ***Lust *is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.

Just another declaration - not evidence.

Masturbation is something done by oneself for oneself; it is completely selfish. It contrary to the will of God in that it contradicts the selfless love that a man is supposed to have for a woman in regards to sexual matters.

Again, a declaration. Not proof of anything.

**2352 **By *masturbation *is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138

And “moral order” is, of course, yet another Church declaration.