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Sister_Amy
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No, my family is not Catholic, and I am 25.
If Muslims believe Mary had no sin, why don't Protestants for the most part
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phil8888
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does your family have a religion?
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Sister_Amy
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Maybe your mind is too clouded with Star Wars and Harry Potter to distinguish truth from reality?
There are two passages which come to mind to ask you to review. 24:35-40 (Parable of Light & Darkness) and 2:2-20 (people who read the Qur’an.)
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Sister_Amy
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More or less. Some are Baptist, some are looking for a church still, and some go to a Baptist church one week and a Catholic one the next.
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Booklover
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Baptist church one week, and Catholic one week! That’s unusual!More or less. Some are Baptist, some are looking for a church still, and some go to a Baptist church one week and a Catholic one the next.
Vickie
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tobinatorstark
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Coming from a person who still can’t give proof that Qur’an is the word of God, when nearly every passage in the Qur’an can be refuted by the Holy Scriptures (The Bible). I can give proof after proof from the Bible and the Catechism, but how is it that you can’t give proof on anything you do or do not believe???
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Sister_Amy
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I agree. It is some sort of compromise between them. One spouse is Catholic, the other is not. I think the kids are going to be confused. But that’s their business, not mine.Baptist church one week, and Catholic one week! That’s unusual!
Vickie
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tobinatorstark
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It is when considering salvation.
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Sister_Amy
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It’s interesting that you must rely on the Bible in order to prove the Qur’an wrong, when for me the Bible is not a sufficient proof for much of anything.
The Qur’an is the proof for what I believe. If you think it’s not proof, then take its challenge and produce something equivalent. Nobody else has, so I’m skeptical that you would be able to, but you’re welcome to give it a shot. But if you want to prove to me that the Qur’an is wrong, you have to use the Qur’an. But since I don’t accept the Bible or Catechism as proof, you can’t use them to disprove the Qur’an to me.
So I recommend you try with the Qur’an. If it’s false, prove it.
You only have to convince me. Is that so tough?
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Sister_Amy
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It is what?
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tobinatorstark
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your business. You aren’t very smart in trying to defend the Qur’an when none of the Christians you are debating with accepts the Qur’an as it just proves violence upon violence.
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Sister_Amy
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Other people’s decision which churches to go to, and how to raise their children, is my business because it deals with their salvation?
Maybe I’m not very smart in “defending the Qur’an.” I don’t think it needs much of a defense, as I consider it to be immaculate. Nobody has been able to prove to me otherwise, however, which is pretty much what the Qur’an says in the first place.
Regarding “violence upon violence,” I do believe that recently one poster made an effort to collect all the verses they could find in the Qur’an that talked about fighting, and it came to like 40 verses, which I determined was like half of a percentage of all verses in the Qur’an. I mean, a totally insignificant figure.
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tobinatorstark
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But you haven’t been able present that the Bible isn’t the word of God. I feel that I can prove that the Qur’an is not of any reliable source. using the Qur’an if I had a copy. Exactly how did reading the Qur’an lead to becoming Muslim and leaving your former religion, if you had one?Other people’s decision which churches to go to, and how to raise their children, is my business because it deals with their salvation?
Maybe I’m not very smart in “defending the Qur’an.” I don’t think it needs much of a defense, as I consider it to be immaculate. Nobody has been able to prove to me otherwise, however, which is pretty much what the Qur’an says in the first place.
Regarding “violence upon violence,” I do believe that recently one poster made an effort to collect all the verses they could find in the Qur’an that talked about fighting, and it came to like 40 verses, which I determined was like half of a percentage of all verses in the Qur’an. I mean, a totally insignificant figure.
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Sister_Amy
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I haven’t tried. I have no interest in convincing anyone of that. But since I don’t consider the Bible to be valid proof against the Qur’an, you would first need to prove that it is…
You’re most welcome to try. They aren’t hard to come by.
Ah yes, I did have religion before Islam, and I also had doubts. I was troubled by a number of issues, but I still believed and prayed for God to guide me.
Reading the Qur’an was for me a different experience entirely than reading the Bible. Of course I was reading it in English, but it seemed to me language as beautiful as the Psalms, and similar, talking about the Glory of God, and it also was telling stories about prophets that I had heard before, but I was looking at them from a different perspective, in a different light. And I was reading about legislation as well, which was familiar to me from the Old Testament, only seeming to make more sense, i.e., with the whole perspective.
And then the Qur’an asked me to think about things–about my own faith, and experiences, and to reflect on what I really believed in the first place. It solved all the problems I had with faith in the first place, so completely that it became the solution. It proved to me over and over again that it was the word of God so I accepted it, became a Muslim.
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jakasaki
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Good afternoon Sister Amy -
I guess that would be me that posted that, but actually there are over 500 verses that are just like that. I only posted a few and I didn’t want to use up pages and pages on the forum.
You might also debate about the Old Testament with it’s violent passages. Agreed. But not many Christians follow the OT, but follow Christ’s teachings of peace and love in the New Testament.
Also, regarding the original title of this thread about “muslims believe that Mary had no sin”, I would like to add, although I am NOT an expert on the Koran, but I do know and have read the chapter dedicated to Mary, and although I disagree with the interpretation of it because they’ve changed the Biblical story of Mary, no where does it (Koran) say that Mother Mary remained “sinless”. **It’s not even addressed/B].
Regards and God Bless
Pam
New York**
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tobinatorstark
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exactly what kind of doubts did you have??? One’s pertaining to Mary and her virginity and sinless to carry the Lord? I too have had doubts. What exactly in the Qur’an made you feel that made you feel that the Bible wasn’t ligit???I haven’t tried. I have no interest in convincing anyone of that. But since I don’t consider the Bible to be valid proof against the Qur’an, you would first need to prove that it is…
You’re most welcome to try. They aren’t hard to come by.
Ah yes, I did have religion before Islam, and I also had doubts. I was troubled by a number of issues, but I still believed and prayed for God to guide me.
Reading the Qur’an was for me a different experience entirely than reading the Bible. Of course I was reading it in English, but it seemed to me language as beautiful as the Psalms, and similar, talking about the Glory of God, and it also was telling stories about prophets that I had heard before, but I was looking at them from a different perspective, in a different light. And I was reading about legislation as well, which was familiar to me from the Old Testament, only seeming to make more sense, i.e., with the whole perspective.
And then the Qur’an asked me to think about things–about my own faith, and experiences, and to reflect on what I really believed in the first place. It solved all the problems I had with faith in the first place, so completely that it became the solution. It proved to me over and over again that it was the word of God so I accepted it, became a Muslim.
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Sister_Amy
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Good afternoon.
I hope you’re well.Perhaps it was you. Forgive me for not remembering. If you have a list of these “over 500 verses” I would appreciate it. If you like you can send it to me by PM or email if there is no link available onilne. I am somewhat skeptical about your claim, but I would like to investigate it anyway. However, even 500 verses, if that’s really true, would still be only a small percentage of the Qur’an.
I could debate about the OT sure, and the point would not be to show that Christians should massacre competing tribes as was commanded of the Israelites, but that sort of debate would demonstrate, I hope, that violence has been commanded by God in the past, with reasons sometimes known only to God. My position as a Muslim, however, is that “peace and love” does not necessarily violate the commandments in the Qur’an.
Take care.
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Sister_Amy
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No, I never had doubts about Mary’s virginity. I had doubts about the Trinity, and doubts about prayer, and doubts about Paul.
If I can expand this, I would say that I had the feeling that in order to worship God, I would need to have God’s word, and know it was God’s word, and that nothing else could legitimately instruct me in anything. Therefore the teachings of Jesus were for me easy to accept, while other texts in the New Testament, such as the writings of Paul and others, gave me some difficulty because I had no guarantee that they were teachings of God, instead of men.
And more, the idea of salvation through the sacrificial death of Jesus troubled me as well. I never was able to grasp the need for that, or to believe in it, to be saved.
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tobinatorstark
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If you had looked in the OT you would have seen all of Christ’s teaching and sacrificial death fortold. Why the Trinity and prayer, they too was mentioned in the OT. You had all that in front of you, did you ask any questions about your doubts with other people
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Sister_Amy
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Yes, I knew how Isaiah had been used to “foretell” the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ but it seemed kind of… hard to swallow, I guess, the way Christians interpreted it. Because after all, Jews have the same book but they don’t arrive at the same conclusion.
And yes, I did ask questions and talk about my doubts with other people.
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