If no TLM, is it sinning to not attend NO mass?

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

These pictures do not support whatever case you’re trying to make. They were taken before 1968, before Padre Pio’s death. I doubt very much that Padre Pio would have approved the ordination of bishops without the Holy Father’s permission, since Padre Pio often spoke of the value of obedience.

Not only did he speak of the value of obedience, but he lived it.

There was a time when the Church questioned his stigmata and he was ordered not to celebrate public Masses and to limit his dealings with the general public.

What did he do? He obeyed. There’s a novel idea.

 

[diggerdomer]

. The Holy father never told Bishop Fellay that he didn’t have a legitimate ministry within the Church either…

See para 4 specifically:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20090702_ecclesiae-unitatem_en.html

 

[bkovacs]

These pictures do not support whatever case you’re trying to make. They were taken before 1968, before Padre Pio’s death. I doubt very much that Padre Pio would have approved the ordination of bishops without the Holy Father’s permission, since Padre Pio often spoke of the value of obedience.

Again, you are doing something that is very wrong and you need to stop. You are manipulating a saint. You are placing him in a situation where he does not belong. That is morally wrong. I have already sent a letter to those in authority about this manipulation. It is immoral and dishonest.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

What is morally wrong about kissing an Archbishops ring. Archbishop Lefevbre is dead as well. They are both probably chatting with each other in God’s Heavenly Kingdom right now.

 

[JReducation]

The Holy father never told Bishop Fellay that he didn’t have a legitimate ministry within the Church either.

You/ve made a mistake.

LETTER OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI
TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
CONCERNING THE REMISSION OF THE EXCOMMUNICATION
OF THE FOUR BISHOPS CONSECRATED BY ARCHBISHOP LEFEBVRE

Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Timothysis]

What is morally wrong about kissing an Archbishops ring. Archbishop Lefevbre is dead as well. They are both probably chatting with each other in God’s Heavenly Kingdom right now.

I’m amazed at just how dishonest you are being on this thread. You are presenting facts from one situation and twisting them to mean something else in another. I’ve read your posts for a long time and thought better of you.

 

[bkovacs]

See para 4 specifically:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_letters/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apl_20090702_ecclesiae-unitatem_en.html

Do you really think they care!. The President of Notre Dame University parties with a Pro-Abortion President, and has a fellow Priest locked up, and not a thing happens to him. Not one thing!. Do you think the SSPX cares!. They are giving the Catholic Church what it desperately needs now. Good Catholic Orthodox Priests!. Unlike Fr John Jenkins. Which the Vatican did nothing about!!.

 

[redrosetea]

Recently, my family and I went on vacation. Prior to leaving, I checked the internet to see if there were any TLM’s in the area. Unfortunately, there were none. So, when Sunday morning rolled around, my wife and I discussed the issue and decided not to go. The reasons were several fold. First, we are staunch traditionalists and just cannot embrace the NO mass. Secondly, we try to limit our children’s exposure to this (although my son attends catholic HS and goes to the NO mass during the school year - you should hear what he has to say but that is a subject for another thread). Lastly, the friend we were visiting told us of an incident that happened recently. The area they are in has 26 churches staffed by only 14 priests. To say this is a juggling act is an understatement. One week the priest in charge of scheduling could not find a priest for this local church. So, what did he do? He contacted a Presbyterian minister and asked him to fill in, which he did. If you arrived late and did not hear the announcement and, as my friend put it, you should have seen the shock on some peoples’ faces when he mentioned he was married in his sermon. Sometimes I just shake my head in disbelief!!! And I wont’ even go into the issues of consecration, validity of the mass and such.

Now, this past week, my local priest who celebrates the TLM (and unfortunately the NO as well) mentioned that we must attend mass when we are away on vacation, no matter whether it is a TLM, a NO, Marion rite, orthodox rite, etc. I must admit I did not think to check into some of the other rites. Anyway, since I am trying to formulate my thoughts for my next confession, I am wondering if we have committed a sin and whether it is mortal or venial? No doubt my local priest and I will have some interesting dialog on this subject. I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter. IYO, did we sin by not attending the NO mass? What other options could/should we have considered?

Thanks for your thoughts! Greg

I think you have…and that you are also sinning against charity

 

[JReducation]

This is a problem the FSSP ran into a number of years ago. They tried to prohibit the celebration of the OF by their members. It seems some of the priests in the FSSP would concelebrate at the Holy Thursday Chrism Mass with the bishop of the diocese that they served it. Some of the members of the FSSP, included the, then, superior did not like this. These priests took it to Rome and Pope John Paul II over ruled the superior and actually replaced him.

It boils down to: you can overrule the exception, but not the norm. The superior had no right to overrule the norm. In that case, the superior is placing his authority over that of the Church.

In the case of the EF, Summorum Pontificum leaves an opening for religious superiors to call the shots in their chapels. This happened at Franciscan University. I don’t know if you recall. Some students and faculty members wanted the EF on campus. Which I don’t see a problem with. But the Guardian of the house at Franciscan University did not allow it. Since every chapel on the campus belongs to the Franciscans (TOR), the Guardian is the final authority.

They took the case to the bishop who said that he nor Summorum Pontificum had no jurisdiction on the campus. The school and all its chapels are part of the religious foundation. Therefore they fall under the authority of the Major Superior of the Franciscans.

Eventually, some agreement was reached and I’m not sure what that was. But the point that the friars were trying to drive home to the laity was that they would not be pushed around by them. The friars were offended by the way that the request was made. Those making the request accused the friars of not being truly Catholic when the superior denied the request.

At that point, even those friars who were interested in celebrating the EF turned on the laity on the campus. They took a united front with their superior. They wrote a letter in which they made it very clear that they did not take orders or abuse from the laity.

They explained it is one thing to be humble, which is the same as being honest and another to allow someone to malign your good name in public and in the media.

I mention this case, because it’s just the opposite of the situation with the FSSP. Again, the lay group appealed to the Vatican and the Vatican said that the friars were right. The EF is extraordinary and the OF is the norm. The superior can put restrictions on the extraordinary, but not on the norm. These two cases prove that.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[DorianGregorian]

I think some are missing the difference between the Religious and the Secular.

(Brs. David and JR, please correct me if I am wrong).

A Secular Priest makes a promise of Obedience to his Bishop. That’s it. Now vow of Poverty, and their promise of Chastity can occasionally be waived (either by being laicized, or in the case of a permanent Deacon, one who gets permission to remarry from Rome.) A Priest who is excommunicated remains a Priest.

A Religious makes vows of Poverty, Chastity, and Obedience (FSSP & IS make a fourth vow). These vows can be waived by no man. They are perpetual until the end of time. And if you break these vows, you are out of the Religious community. Though a Religious who has Holy Orders remains a Priest, they can be cast out of the community and are no longer a member.

Laus Deo