If Protestantism Is Not True

  • Thread starter Thread starter Taestron
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Communion is not the work of man, but of the Holy Spirit, and essentially, at the core is faith.

Catholicism in particular, Orthodoxy in general is Ecclesial Deismā€¦Our Christ is big enough to renew all of creationā€¦and God enough to decide to use mortal men to be His representatives and ministers.

If you are in the spirit of man, you will see contradictions, fractures, divorces, misunderstandings. If you see with the eyes of faith in the Holy Spirit, your eyes will focus on the Lord Himself and His movement within all aspects of the Church and experience communionā€¦

Church is first and foremostā€¦mystologicalā€¦mysteryā€¦a concrete tool to bring us into the reality of God Himselfā€¦men are not the end but only instruments, channelsā€¦and one consecrated and ordained, in spite of his own sinfulness, is still the minister and channelā€¦albeit not as much grace through that soiled vesselā€¦\

You have to learn to look beyond the people, the bureaucracy and see God, experience Him at work, and not put your eyes so much on the peopleā€¦

It is more, you are with the Church members facing God.

Furthermore, the seat of Peter gives us the Living Revelation of Jesus Christā€¦His will, His perspective, His admonitions of faith in the world today. So far I have not ever heard a pope or read a popeā€™s statements in the LIving Revelation that are crackpot or egomaniac.
 
padrepio_2012 said:
There are only a very few differences between RCC and EO. first off, the RCC was the only Church until i believe 1056, when the eastern church denied the pope as leader of the Church. this is called the great schism and led to the formation of the two different churches. the EO still had apostolic succession as posters above have said, so they validly celebrate the Eucharist and all of the other sacraments of the Church. even their priests are authentic priests and bishops are authentic bishops ect.

the only difference is that the EO do not accept the pope as their leader and there are a few differences in liturgical celebration. other wise we are basically the same. many of our dogmas are the same, they honor Mary as we do, they have saints. a Catholic may receive confession and Eucharist from a EO church if there is no RCC around the area, or whatever the situation. But the RCC is the true Church because it was the Church founded by Christ and was the only Church til they (EO) broke off so i guess that is our argument that we are the true apostolic Church. history even shows that there was no other Church except us til 1056. hope this helps
Click to expand...
I donā€™t see what you mean by ā€œhistory even showsā€ this.

How does ā€œhistoryā€ show this?

What are your criteria?

Who were ā€œusā€?

To make this stick, you need to show that the ā€œunitedā€ Church before 1054 was like the RCC and not like the Orthodox in the relevant ways.

I think the reason you make this claim so confidently is that obviously the ā€œunitedā€ Church was in union with Rome.

But this is begging the question. You assume that this is the only relevant consideration, and further that the pre-Schism Church universally viewed Rome in the way the modern RCC does and not in the way the modern Orthodox Church would view a hypothetically ā€œOrthodoxā€ Rome (or at least, that given that choice the pre-Schism view is substantially closer to the former than to the latter).

Edwin
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Well, this is the problem Iā€™m facing, soā€¦

šŸæ
Click to expand...
Rome is clearly the ā€œdefaultā€ for Western Protestants.

However, if you are convinced that the Orthodox are right, and specifically that the Orthodox critiques of Rome subsume everything that is sound in the Protestant critiques, then you should become Orthodox.

I think that this is actually a very attractive argument. But not quite attractive enough, so far.

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Rome is clearly the ā€œdefaultā€ for Western Protestants.

However, if you are convinced that the Orthodox are right, and specifically that the Orthodox critiques of Rome subsume everything that is sound in the Protestant critiques, then you should become Orthodox.

I think that this is actually a very attractive argument. But not quite attractive enough, so far.

Edwin
Click to expand...
Hmmā€¦ I would agree that Rome is the ā€œdefaultā€ for me; however, other than the question of Peter, it would seem most of the critiques I have seen against Rome are of a peripheral nature. For example, I agree the the East has a more aesthetically pleasing liturgy, but if the content is essentially the same, should this really count as a viable critique? On the other hand, I am more comfortable with the more Western nature of RC theology, but should this be of primary importance for me? It would seem that the question of Peter is the only primary concern if Protestantism is false.
 
Credo ergo sum, In my mind I donā€™t see where Rome is a viable option for you? Travel and expense being an issue. Unless you can speak to a Father, and/or this particular Catholic community to arrange a transportation pool which cancels the issue. Have you looked into this? No-one in you area attends the Catholic Church? Through the Lord and charity I donā€™t see where this canā€™t be overcome? Perhaps Iā€™m missing part of the story?
 
GaryTaylor said:
Credo ergo sum, In my mind I donā€™t see where Rome is a viable option for you? Travel and expense being an issue. Unless you can speak to a Father, and/or this particular Catholic community to arrange a transportation pool which cancels the issue. Have you looked into this? No-one in you area attends the Catholic Church? Through the Lord and charity I donā€™t see where this canā€™t be overcome? Perhaps Iā€™m missing part of the story?
Click to expand...
Gary, I recognize that some Catholics (with what I find to be a rash of ill-advised hyper-PC sensitivity) have decided that the shorthand ā€œRomeā€ is offensive.

But in this case thereā€™s no good way around it. Taestron and I, two Christians not in communion with the See of Peter (is that better:p?), are discussing whether in fact the Roman Communion is the Catholic Church. We are discussing whether you are what your self-chosen name claims. We canā€™t discuss that meaningfully without using a more ā€œneutralā€ term during the discussion, can we?

Edwin
 
Contarini said:
Gary, I recognize that some Catholics (with what I find to be a rash of ill-advised hyper-PC sensitivity) have decided that the shorthand ā€œRomeā€ is offensive.

But in this case thereā€™s no good way around it. Taestron and I, two Christians not in communion with the See of Peter (is that better:p?), are discussing whether in fact the Roman Communion is the Catholic Church. We are discussing whether you are what your self-chosen name claims. We canā€™t discuss that meaningfully without using a more ā€œneutralā€ term during the discussion, can we?

Edwin
Click to expand...
Rome is a non-issue in the use of the word to me anyway. Communion in the Church becomes relevant but not exclusive to the Catholic Church. But right we are all part of a bigger whole imperfect as it may be, it is true, which makes the question is Protestantism True a non issue also.

Nevertheless, I remember a conversation vaguely with Credo some time ago. I think its a good time to resolve the conscious issues which seem to be on-going. I remember heā€™s a young man and I see the point of some resolve imperative with him, yet on-going.

Gary
 
GaryTaylor said:
Rome is a non-issue in the use of the word to me anyway. Communion in the Church becomes relevant but not exclusive to the Catholic Church. But right we are all part of a bigger whole imperfect as it may be, it is true, which makes the question is Protestantism True a non issue also.

Nevertheless, I remember a conversation vaguely with Credo some time ago. I think its a good time to resolve the conscious issues which seem to be on-going. I remember heā€™s a young man and I see the point of some resolve imperative with him, yet on-going.

Gary
Click to expand...
Gary, I apologize. I completely misunderstood and thought you were calling us out on our use of ā€œRomeā€ to mean ā€œthe Catholic Churchā€ by pretending to take the term ā€œRomeā€ literally. (I.e., ā€œdo you really need to travel all the way to Italy to find a Catholic parish?ā€)

That may say more about my own labored sense of sarcastic humor (itā€™s the sort of reply I might have indulged in) than anything else.

Sorry for getting you wrong.

Edwin
 
GaryTaylor said:
Credo ergo sum, In my mind I donā€™t see where Rome is a viable option for you? Travel and expense being an issue. Unless you can speak to a Father, and/or this particular Catholic community to arrange a transportation pool which cancels the issue. Have you looked into this? No-one in you area attends the Catholic Church? Through the Lord and charity I donā€™t see where this canā€™t be overcome? Perhaps Iā€™m missing part of the story?
Click to expand...
An Orthodox church is too far away, I can walk to a Catholic one in 5 minutes.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
An Orthodox church is too far away, I can walk to a Catholic one in 5 minutes.
Click to expand...
So then the dilemma resides where? You feel more inclined to attend the Orthodox? Then wouldnā€™t the same advice apply to the Orthodox? Or is there another issue?
 
GaryTaylor said:
So then the dilemma resides where? You feel more inclined to attend the Orthodox? Then wouldnā€™t the same advice apply to the Orthodox? Or is there another issue?
Click to expand...
That I still donā€™t know who is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. The EOC or the RCC.
 
Planning world conquest and, when I have some spare time, studying the Church Fathers and doing a lot of thinking on whoā€™s right, the EO or the RC.
 
Credo_ergo_sum said:
Planning world conquest and, when I have some spare time, studying the Church Fathers and doing a lot of thinking on whoā€™s right, the EO or the RC.
Click to expand...
Everyone always wants to rule the world. šŸ¤·

Contemplating the meaning the life and the universal restoration of Christianity here! So far nothing profound. I think I had the answer for a flashing moment, then I lost it.šŸ˜›

My prayers are with you. Surely your attending the Protestant in the meantime?
 
GaryTaylor said:
My prayers are with you. Surely your attending the Protestant in the meantime?
Click to expand...
No, I wouldnā€™t be able to stand that šŸ˜ƒ
GaryTaylor said:
Contemplating the meaning the life and the universal restoration of Christianity here! So far nothing profound. I think I had the answer for a flashing moment, then I lost it.šŸ˜›
Click to expand...
Youā€™re a mystic, I see. Very good. šŸ‘
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top