If Protestantism Is True

[Nicea325]

I’m not really sure what your saying here… Both people have conflicting ideas… So you should weigh each carefully and make the best decision you can. I just didn’t want anyone to make a decision without hearing the BEST of both sides. Catholics often play the relativism card and it drives me nuts.

Catholics OFTEN play the relativisim card? Not sure what Catholics you have been talking to lately?

 

[pablope]

I’m not really sure what your saying here… Both people have conflicting ideas… So you should weigh each carefully and make the best decision you can. I just didn’t want anyone to make a decision without hearing the BEST of both sides. Catholics often play the relativism card and it drives me nuts.

My original post:

Originally Posted by pablope View Post
Why? What do we have to gain from reading them? How do you know they are telling the truth?

Why do you think and believe in what they write? What makes them more authoritative than, let us says…Thomas Aquinas? Scott Hahn? Joseph Ratzinger? or a Church council that decided on this matter?

So…can the Holy Spirit guide these authors of yours…and not a Church council sitting together to ponder and give a definite understanding of these subjects?

Conflicting ideas? I am not sure what you mean by conflicting ideas. There were varied opinions…heresies, if you will, that the Church addressed.

By the time of the Reformation, I do not think there were any conflicting ideas.

But the protestant reformation brought forth more conflicting ideas…and a resurrection of the old heresies the Church fought and won against.

Well, you presented books/authors for us to read…so let me clarify my question…What do these authors have to offer that we do not already know? And which the Church has already addressed?

What makes their writings authoritative for a Christian? Isn’t it that Paul submitted his gospel to the Apostles…so that he is not running in vain?

So following the example of St. Paul…who approved (an authority stemming form the Apostles…or apostolic succession) these author’s works/writings? Did they approve it themselves?

 

[stewstew03]

You probably hear it most from Lutherans and Anglicans, where doctrine and liturgy are central.

Jon

Yes; JonNC, Anna Scott, et al.

 

[Boywonder23k]

Conflicting ideas? I am not sure what you mean by conflicting ideas. There were varied opinions…heresies, if you will, that the Church addressed.

By the time of the Reformation, I do not think there were any conflicting ideas.

But the protestant reformation brought forth more conflicting ideas…and a resurrection of the old heresies the Church fought and won against.

Well, you presented books/authors for us to read…so let me clarify my question…What do these authors have to offer that we do not already know? And which the Church has already addressed?

What makes their writings authoritative for a Christian? Isn’t it that Paul submitted his gospel to the Apostles…so that he is not running in vain?

So following the example of St. Paul…who approved (an authority stemming form the Apostles…or apostolic succession) these author’s works/writings? Did they approve it themselves?

The problem we are going to have here is that you are presupposing apostolic authority and succession. You are presupposing infallible councils and Popes. There is no way any sort of ecuminical dialog can take place in this manner. We must start from neutral positions and try our best to not be biased. Presuppositions must be checked at the door.

The reason why I recommended “disputations on holy scripture” and “the infallibility of the church” is that they present the best case for Protestantism. One book (disputations) is the best defense of sola scriptura ever written. The other “infallibility” is the best critique of roman infallibility ever written. If someone is considering conversion they should hear the best possible arguments from each side… And then after much prayer follow their conscience.

I am currently also considering conversion to catholicism. I greatly admire the ethical system and respect for history. However, for me at least, the current state of liberalism in the Church is concerning. If catholic doctrine “develops” into atheists, Muslims etc all going to heaven I’m going to have to decline. Sadly I’m afraid that is the direction Rome is heading… Anyways… Hope you checkout the books!

 

[stewstew03]

The problem we are going to have here is that you are presupposing apostolic authority and succession. You are presupposing infallible councils and Popes. There is no way any sort of ecuminical dialog can take place in this manner. We must start from neutral positions and try our best to not be biased. Presuppositions must be checked at the door.

Here are some presuppositions that you probably don’t have a problem with:

(1) God’s existence;
(2) The veracity of Scripture;
(3) That we can know and discover truth (epistemology).

I’m guessing you haven’t checked these presuppositions at the door.

I am currently also considering conversion to catholicism. I greatly admire the ethical system and respect for history. However, for me at least, the current state of liberalism in the Church is concerning. If catholic doctrine “develops” into atheists, Muslims etc all going to heaven I’m going to have to decline. Sadly I’m afraid that is the direction Rome is heading… Anyways… Hope you checkout the books!

I disagree with your supposition regarding the “current state of liberalism in the Church” (and I imagine plenty of liberal Catholics disagree with you as well), but in any case, you should allow the Holy Spirit to lead you, not your political ideology.

 

[pablope]

The problem we are going to have here is that you are presupposing apostolic authority and succession.

It is necessary…why do you think it is not?

As I stated, St. Paul (in Gal 1 and 2), saw fit to submit his teachings to the Apostles…and this passage states it so…from 1John 4…6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

So should we expect less of the authors you suggested? How would we know that what they are writing/espousing is from God?

You are presupposing infallible councils and Popes.