If Protestants wrote the Bible...humorous

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Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their -]works/-] faith in Jesus alone.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their -]works/-] faith in Jesus alone

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his -]works/-] faith in Me alone.

Acts 26:20
……but showed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and -]do works/-] have faith alone in Jesus, meet for repentance.

2 Corinthians 11:15
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their -]works/-] faith alone in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto -]good works/-] faith in Christ alone, which God hath before ordained that we should -]walk in them/-] have faith in Christ alone.

2 Timothy 4:14
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his -]works /-]lack of faith alone.
  1. James 2:21
    Was not Abraham our father justified by -]works/-], faith alone, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
3. James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

4. James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
5. James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

By Works is Faith made perfect. Two sides of one coin, BOTH are necessary for salvation. Because, as we have seen, the one without the other is unprofitable.

James 2:25
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by -]works/-] faith only, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

**Romans 2:5-7 (King James Version)
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds

To them who by patient continuance in well doing, seek for glory and honor and immortality: eternal life

(what God is rendering to everyman according to deeds is eternal life or damnation)**

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Shall we continue?..

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that -]work iniquity/-] had not faith alone.

Revelation 2:23
…and all the churches shall know that I am he which searches the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your -]works/-] faith in Me alone.

Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my -]works/-] faith alone unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations

Revelation 3:2
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy -]works/-] faith alone perfect before God.

Jesus wants us to have perfect works before God?

"Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation." John 5:28-29
 
Actually if all the 32,000+ protestant sects gathered together in one huge ecclesial council meeting they could probably agree on a few common principals that would further permit them to decprecated the bible down to just a few select salvation campaign slogans. This could easily be put onto a single sheet of paper and inserted into mass mailings for the large franchise mega “bible only” ecclesial aggregators.
  • Jesus saves - if ONLY you genuinely believe He saves.
  • Once saved always saved (unless you were never really saved)
  • There is no need to confess your sins to a priest - just assume God always knows you will sin and automatically forgives
  • Reject all papal and ecclesial authority since these are fallable men and your bible makes everyone infallable (except for the Catholics)
  • Do not follow any Catholic pagan traditions (except for going to church on Sunday rather than the sabbath and wearing your wedding bands when married)
James
 
CentralFLJames said:
Actually if all the 32,000+ protestant sects gathered together in one huge ecclesial council meeting…
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That sounds like my childhood, but yeah in my experience anyone could veto nearly any belief by claiming that it was a Catholic idea.
 
…or my personal favorite:James2:20-“Do you want proof ,you ignoramus,that faith without works is useless”.
 
CentralFLJames said:
  • Jesus saves - if ONLY you genuinely believe He saves
  • Once saved always saved (unless you were never really saved).
Click to expand...
No, I think almost all of them I’ve known (and I when I was one) believed you can lose your salvation irrevocably in several ways, all in some form losing faith, and that that can happen easily.
  • There is no need to confess your sins to a priest - just assume God always knows you will sin and automatically forgives
Click to expand...
Or that He will forgive as long as you didn’t commit any unknown lapse of faith, or as long as you pray for forgiveness and really mean it.
  • Reject all papal and ecclesial authority since these are fallable men and your bible makes everyone infallable (except for the Catholics)
Click to expand...
And all differences are resolved by asking pastor. He would know, because God put him in authority over you. YThe disagreements between him and thousands of other pastors are not your problem because you won’t be held responsible for the doctrine you believe, only for your obedience to the pastor, but that’s not relying on a man like Catholics with their Pope. That’s about how I remember it anyway.

I think we were exposed to different denominations.🤷
 
If the Bible was written by Protestants, then it would not be as vague and confusing as it is in many parts. It would be very comprehensive.
 
well if they write bibles like they make their tv programs. the bible would be full of ads… asking them to send them money for one reason or another
 
strngrnrth said:
No, I think almost all of them I’ve known (and I when I was one) believed you can lose your salvation irrevocably in several ways, all in some form losing faith, and that that can happen easily.
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Yes, now that I think about it, Protestants would probably say that the only way to lose their salvation is to lose their faith by converting to Catholicism. 😃

But within the smorgasbord of Protestantism “Christians” are free to shop around and change their pastors and churches just as often as they desire and still remain “saved” (just as long as they continue to tithe to keep the salvation-rapture ticket from expiring or going into arrears). 😃

James
 
latin_rite said:
well if they write bibles like they make their tv programs. the bible would be full of ads… asking them to send them money for one reason or another
Click to expand...
Now we shouldn’t lump all Protestants into one, homogenous category…the above would only be applicable if the Bible was written by Prosperity Gospel-type Televangelists. 😃
 
SimonArizona said:
Rev. 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their -]works/-] faith in Jesus alone.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their -]works/-] faith in Jesus alone

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his -]works/-] faith in Me alone.

Acts 26:20
……but showed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and -]do works/-] have faith alone in Jesus, meet for repentance.

2 Corinthians 11:15
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their -]works/-] faith alone in Jesus.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto -]good works/-] faith in Christ alone, which God hath before ordained that we should -]walk in them/-] have faith in Christ alone.

2 Timothy 4:14
Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his -]works /-]lack of faith alone.
  1. James 2:21
    Was not Abraham our father justified by -]works/-], faith alone, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
3. James 2:22
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

4. James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
5. James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

By Works is Faith made perfect. Two sides of one coin, BOTH are necessary for salvation. Because, as we have seen, the one without the other is unprofitable.

James 2:25
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by -]works/-] faith only, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

**Romans 2:5-7 (King James Version)
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Who will render to every man according to his deeds

To them who by patient continuance in well doing**, seek for glory and honor and immortality: eternal life

(what God is rendering to everyman according to deeds is eternal life or damnation)

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Shall we continue?..

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that -]work iniquity/-] had not faith alone.

Revelation 2:23
…and all the churches shall know that I am he which searches the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your -]works/-] faith in Me alone.

Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my -]works/-] faith alone unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations

Revelation 3:2
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy -]works/-] faith alone perfect before God.

Jesus wants us to have perfect works before God?

"Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation." John 5:28-29
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I would encourage you to read the entire chapter of those verses you quoted. Man will be rewarded for his/her works, but not justified by them.
 
beeper said:
I would encourage you to read the entire chapter of those verses you quoted. Man will be rewarded for his/her works, but not justified by them.
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According to Matthew 25: 31ff rewarded with heaven or hell … now what were you saying about justification?

Can dead faith save you? Or Justify you?
 
Did you read the last one? Why not read that literally, at its simple face value?
“Do not be amazed at this, because the hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and will come out, those who have done good deeds to the resurrection of life, but those who have done wicked deeds to the resurrection of condemnation.” John 5:28-29"
Click to expand...
The fruit of justification is obviously good works, and they complete justification. It’s the sign, par excellance, that one is justified. It’s not necessary to quote James again, is it? Or that Luther thought James was an “epistle of straw” for this reason? Or that he wanted to get rid of Revelation for similar reasons (see above quotes).

If one has no discernible or visible good works, there is a good chance that the person is not justified. We are saved by grace so that we can do good works. There is no other reason we are saved. We become slaves to God, a benevolent master, as Paul puts it. It’s two sides of the same coin.

A car factory is built to make cars. If you build a car factory, and it never rolls a car off the line, is it really a car factory? How can you be sure? It could be a jewelry factor, right? Or does it just look like a car factory? As James said, do we need more proof? It’s just so simple, I’m not sure how or why anyone has any issue with this. It requires so little effort of intellect to grasp. It’s staggering that Protestants miss this. And for what? Protestant “unity”? Protestant “autonomy”? Desire for autonomous power lies beneath the objection of Protestants to Catholic teaching. Yet God is abundantly merciful because of all the misinformation smeared around. Protestants are like sheep without a shepherd. Or rather, sheep with a zillion competing shepherds 🙂

It takes a tentative nature to allow for paradigm shifts in one’s thinking and worldview, otherwise we’d never change our minds for the better, in anything at all. In order to see what’s new to us, we have to be at the least willing to die to what is current in our thinking. “What good can come out of Nazareth?” as one venerable disciple asked, skeptically yet with tentativeness. And yet the testimony about him some thousands of years later is that he had no guile in him - no deceptive ulterior motive - because he really sought the truth. And he found the truth that spoke to his very being: “My Lord and my God!” This is the testimony of countless Protestant converts to Catholicism, myself included.

Take a deep breath: “What if I’m wrong?” What if? If you say can’t possibly be wrong, you have just made yourself infallible, and surely you don’t mean that. And you can’t turn that back on the Catholic church (infallibility) just because you can’t answer the question: there is the fact of history to contend with, which is not on the side of the Protestants, which is why they have to construct alternate stories and histories (like the “blood line”) to bridge the gap.
 
When you do evil deeds, you sin. And Christ said “if you obey my commands you will remain in me.” When you do wicked deeds you lose grace and wound the soul.

Death to sin is absolutley necessary for salvation. When you are not sinning you are doing well. Your deeds are good. This is inseparable form salvation. So how can you say good deeds are not required for salvation, when evil deeds will damn you?

The free gift is Christ’s death on the cross that made salvation possible. Taking up our cross and following Jesus is the only way to heaven.

Faith and obedience are hand in hand, there is no separating them. Galatians sought to be back under the subjection of the law, that was the rebuke. It is not the law that saves but obeying the commands of Christ Jesus which is doing the will of the Father.
 
quasimodo said:
According to Matthew 25: 31ff rewarded with heaven or hell … now what were you saying about justification?

Can dead faith save you? Or Justify you?
Click to expand...
Works are fruit of someone who has already been justified.
 
beeper said:
Works are fruit of someone who has already been justified.
Click to expand...
Good works or bad works? Remember, we are not justified by faith alone. Good works are required, like the entire NT explains. Don’t be a goat and be divisive. Let the angels do the dividing of sheep and goats at the appointed day.

Calvinists have this strange notion that justification is a legal transaction like “you give me your blood and I give you my sins”, like you just got salvation off the shelf at Walmart. But it’s a covenant, the “new covenant”, like a marriage. A relationship is required. If you get married in Maine and move to Alaska and never ever consumate the marriage or love your wife or whatever, your marriage really isn’t a marriage, though it might be so on paper. That is why works are required. Love is required.

Doesn’t Paul say, though I give this and that and everything, but if I don’t have love (the action of love as a work), I am nothing? Love, in fact, is a work, and it must be done.
 
beeper said:
Works are fruit of someone who has already been justified.
Click to expand...
Then that would have been specified in Matthew 25:31ff; but Jesus didn’t say there that only those who accept Him will be saved. No. He didn’t distinguish between those who believe in Him from those who didn’t; we can imply from the passage that there are those who know Him who will not enter His kingdom because they didn’t do anything (when did we see you hungry, naked, etc.–>implying they know Him and recognize Him). In Revelation we also find that such people are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, and shall be spit from His mouth.
 
As long as Protestants divide faith from works, there will never be even real unity in their own camp. There is no unity, except on paper and the occasional individual among Protestants churches. For Protestants, you just need to believe the right thing in your mind. This was not the mind of the early church. Why else did it take so long to go through catechism once the church got rolling? People had to learn to be Christian, the more pagan they where, and they were required to have proof of character and good works from their sponsors. Without those qualifications and testimonies from others, they weren’t allowed to be baptized. This is a fact, and is rote history.

If it was so simple, “just believe”, then why did the Church see things differently? And if the Church was wrong about this, how at the same time did it grow from 50,000 in the year 100AD to 20 million by 380 AD and produce the authoritative index to the NT? There is no reasonable answer. If you admit this, then go all the way and submit to the Church’s teaching. If not, then keep believing in “the blood line” myth concocted by those who need an alternative history, no matter how ludicrous or fantastical or mythical, because they can’t see the forest through the trees.

All Protestant theology is built on sand, and creates more divisions than it heals. Is this true? Of course is it. Once you are weary of protest and have lost all your Protestant friends three or four times over, you might see some wisdom in the unified system of Rome. If you have some fight left in you though, you will just keep fighting, in which case you might as well not come back to the forum unless you like kicking against the pricks.
 
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