If Rome is wrong, where do you go?

[planter654]

Beautiful indeed - but not quite to the point. How can you claim to be part of the garden at all if you repeatedly ignore the Apostles who gave us … the Catholic and Orthodox Churches? The Bible? Little things like that?

Do I have to repeat again that St Paul tells us to build upon their foundation, not just to do what we like and claim that because the Holy Spirit (or so we think - most unlikely) said so then we’re ok.

Like St. Paul we are not to place ourselves above anyone as I am sure St Peter did the same thing, St. Paul was speaking in pure humbleness, he said he was the worst sinner of all. And God chose him like he did all and is calling all of us.Quick telling God who is to sit where or who is greater etc. Or telling God’s children where they should go or not go or whom they should turn to or not turn to. You are playing with matches. Jesus did not even do that but humbled himself and he was King of Kings, Lord of Lord. Jesus told us about our Father, God, our creator. In Jesus time were they not also doing that to Jesus about Moses? Yet Jesus Moses and Elias met on the mountain and were seen by Peter James and I think John I am not sure.

Yes their foundation that when we do, it also become our foundation as one with them on the foundation of God’s House, his family! St. Paul is letting us known which foundation to build on not on the evil one Lucifer! Not to build on the “wrong lot”. Know God’s foundation.

If I deny the claim to be part of the garden which is my faith it would be "denying that God’s word is not truth, he is not a “LIAR” and “not accepting”, “rejecting” Jesus Christ body and blood that he shed on the cross for my sins. God through his infinite mercy has given me this grace to know him, his infinite love and infinite mercy for me. Jesus Christ did not suffer the “worst agony of death in vain”!! Have you not hear and believe in the good news?

I know the “dung” that I am but more important and thanks be to God I also know and believe in faith that nothing “is impossible with God” and “I believe in Him, trust in Him”! To think other wise like you,… would be serving only the thoughts of the devil and giving him power over me and turning my back on him and calling God a liar. Telling me that I am not worthy and that God does not love me, my creator and sending his precious son to be crucified for me and all was just a joke!

Yes I do not worry about going to heaven as much about one day being with God through out eternity and “I believe in his infinite mercy” and knowing that God knows my nothingness, my heart, soul, thoughts, etc and I knowing GOD’S GREATNESS, I will be in his garden!! Thanks,praise and glory to God!!

And who do you think “you are” by saying I am “denying” or “ignoring” the Apostles? Thank God he is our judge!

If God be for you who "dare be against’ you!!

God Bless

 

[dessert]

Yes, Mick Jesus did show love but sometimes He got very angry. He did not have sloppy agape.
Bill

Hi Bill, you are free to do so as you wish and tough love is the answer, let us not our anger turn to hate. He showed forgiveness.
I would go to Lourdes if I could, there are some nice shrines and places of gathering in our own country that many visit.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by abcd
…
Was it wrong when the Roman Catholic church said all non catholics were going to hell? And since vatican II now the popes have alowed all baptised prots to go to heaven. Were they wrong then or are they wrong now? Dem dare popes sure have a lot of power to do that and they can even shorten your time in purgatory if you do indulgences and just announced by the pope.

No one outside the Church that Christ established, which is the Catholic Church, nor anyone IN the Church, will get to heaven unless they are graced by God Himself for being true to His commands as best they can know Him given their circumstances.

This has always been the claim of the Church. That you interpret the proclamations to mean what you would like them to mean is a problem between you and God.

You obviously know nothing of what indulgences are about, as they are only well-wishes to help those who are destined for heaven and are being “instructed” in purgatory.

Any indulgence for oneself is an act we take to be more thoroughly forgiven by Jesus. It’s simply asking for forgiveness, as you say you do, in a more vehement way to show we do really care about our salvation.

But, since you are “completely saved and cleansed for heaven” regardless of what you do now or in the future, that is totally silly to you. So be it.

Keep talking. You illustrate the “angry protestant” very well for those here not familiar with the type. Thanks again!

For one who complains about not being “answered” by those he’s talking to, you don’t seem to have the courtesy to be as you wish others were toward you.

Your verse-flinging and third-hand defamation is typical self-important protestant grasping for “fame” by denigrating others.

I’d like to hear how you justify YOUR claims, and see how they add up to our justifications for ours. But you’re not interested in educating us in your beliefs, most likely because they are so “typically simple (minded)” that they really don’t NEED justification. They are “sound bite” theology, which is well suited to the minds of it’s adherents.

 

[planter654]

It’s not a question of merely having favourites. Whoever or whatever gave you that idea is not of God.

Christ instituted A church, one - not many. And warned that false teachers would come in His name. Distinguishing the one true church, the one true teaching, from the false is highly necessary for the salvation of our souls.

In fact it’s failure to rightly distinguish - or worse, religious indifferentism where all are treated as alike - that is truly deadly to the soul.

Who ever gave me that idea is not of God YOU SAID!.. it was the “little child of Jesus” who is called the Dr. of the Church… St. Therese! Also St. Theresa of Avila! Also the one about it is dangereous to the soul to have favorites among the family…written in their diaries also!! For all are dearly loved by God meaning what is Love if you only love those who love you, for even evil ones love their own.

Little St. Theresa lived a short and suffered much in her young life and read no books other than the saints when she in her own words said she needed nourishment. She was happy when she looked upon all the books in the library and did not read them for she said they would make her head hurt and what a waste of precious time God had given her. Little St. Theresa had no education but had a personal relationship with God, Jesus and our Blessed Mother and not like you… I did not think she was denying the apostles or Peter or Paul or Moses etc.

She lived a hidden life in the convent, no one knew of her but look what fruit she has become for all of us after her death! The Catholic Church said they could write, write, write books just about her words of wisdom even beyond their understanding and how it had open a door also to different ways of reading the Bible. Such depth and wisdom! Simple simple words and simple statements… a little child living a simple humble life fallowing in the foot steps of Jesus. She did not run from suffering but opened wide arms to suffer more. She was not worried about going to heaven for “she knew she was going” to sit on Gods lap is what she expressed was for all God’s children. But wanted only in pleading to stay longer on earth and suffer, suffer to save more, more souls for God!

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Look at what happened to Paul, he was still persecuting Jesus even after Jesus was risen. Like persecuting Him twice once in the body and then the spirit, and it took a direct visitation from Jesus to see this . Aand then he had to be led to Peter to learn of the Messiah as Paaul was a jew but was the most cruel one, so Paul became I like to call a cradel jew revert convert complete finnally with the complete teaching of Peter.

Yes, let us look at what happened to Paul the message is for all of us. There is nothing impossible for God, he said he would go down to hell and drag us by our hair, that is how much he loves us. Paul humbles himself and you do not need to remind me or God of Pauls sins. All who God chose where sinners even Moses, King David etc.

Yes! St. Peter fell also, but it was meant for his good, for he was choosen by God. He had to learn that he could “do nothing with out God” for God was preparing him for a great task. We all learn nothing from success for success teaches you nothing! But experiencing failure is what gets you there and teaches you.

But I am sure if St. Peter asked Jesus to help him he would of. He had to experience the fall first to know that with out God we can do nothing for Jesus knew he was leaving the earth.

Remember also Jesus told St. Peter the Holy Spirit will take you where you DO NOT WANT TO GO!

Fallow me. We all need to experience and to do that we need to fallow Jesus. Experience what he experience, humbleness, sorrow, suffering, be spit upon, rejected, to be in need of forgiveness, to need compassion etc. For you cannot give what you do not have! You cannot give compassion unless you yourself experienced the pain and loss of not having received yourself compassion. It goes the same for mercy, love, joy, suffering, forgiveness etc.

That is why we need to conquer ourselves first with the grace and infinited mercy of the Lord in simply asking him. We cannot give what we do not have. God’s word is to be lived, experience then and only then can we understand more spiritually the message of God’s words. We need to accept, live in the word, fallow the word, become “ONE” in the word. God said himself it is futile to argue over his word.

Jesus said: “my father never leaves me for I do all that pleases him” We need to live the word, experience living in the word, the little messages first, don’t you think.

I could go to mass every day or even once a week walk into the Catholic Church, but come out the same person that I went in. I have seen others who go every day and come out no better than when they went in.

You can have all the religious pictures in your home, all relics around your neck, carry the bible where every you go but they will not save you. It is God who makes us “HOLY”. God knows when and all that we need.

We have to know our nothingness first. We have to ask God to help us conquer our wickness. self pride, vanity, greed, self righteousness, attitude, self serving, judgemental, lust, rudeness, drunkeness, gambling, smoking, glutton in our own wants etc.

How foolish is the human mind.

God Bless

 

[planter654]

Beautiful indeed - but not quite to the point. How can you claim to be part of the garden at all if you repeatedly ignore the Apostles who gave us … the Catholic and Orthodox Churches? The Bible? Little things like that?

Do I have to repeat again that St Paul tells us to build upon their foundation, not just to do what we like and claim that because the Holy Spirit (or so we think - most unlikely) said so then we’re ok.

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me so will"Jn 6:44). but whom does the Father will? " the wise and understanding”, the Lord tell us, BUT THE SIMPLE.

Taken in the most straightforward sense, these words reflect Jesus “ACTUAL EXPERIENCE”: It is not the Scripture EXPERTS, those who are professionally “CONCERNED WITH GOD”, who recognize him; the are “TOO CAUGHT UP IN THE INTRICACIES OF THEIR DETAILED KNOWLEDGE”. Their great learning distracts them from “SIMPLY GAZING” upon the whole, upon the reality of God as he reveals himself—for people who know so much about the complexity of the issues, it seems that is just cannot be so " SIMPLE"!

Paul describes this same experience and then goes on to reflect upon it: " For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it si the power of God. for it is written, " I will destroy the ’ WISDOM" of the wise, and the clevernesss of the clever I will THWART" ( Is 29:14…For consider your call, brethren: not manu of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of NOBLE BIRTH; but God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise, God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong…so that “NO HUMAN” being might boast in the presence of God" ( 1 Cor 1:18.,26–29. " Let no one deceive himself. If any one among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise" (1 Cor 3;18). What, though, is meant by becoming a fool, by being “a little one” through which we are opened up for the will, and so for the knowledge, of God?
Copied and taken from
FROM THE PERSONAL WRITTEN BOOK BY------------Joseph Ratzinger —POPE BENEDICT XV1 ’ in his personal search for the Face fo the Lord. His book is called “Jesus of Nazareth.”

God Bless a very little child of God---- I thought I would let you know LilyM before you said this person must not of God.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Rome can not be wrong because God can not be wrong.

 

[planter654]

It’s not a question of merely having favourites. Whoever or whatever gave you that idea is not of God.

Christ instituted A church, one - not many. And warned that false teachers would come in His name. Distinguishing the one true church, the one true teaching, from the false is highly necessary for the salvation of our souls.

In fact it’s failure to rightly distinguish - or worse, religious indifferentism where all are treated as alike - that is truly deadly to the soul.

Reread your last line over again. That is what I said about a family member over another, but I said it in a much smaller simple sense. We are all equal you got it.

God Bless

 

[surgei]

Rome can not be wrong because God can not be wrong.

I don’t follow.
Did Christ preach in Rome? Did he establish a Church with himself as the cornerstone or did he found Rome as the center of the world?
Have the Orthodox changed any belief since the time of the schism? In the end it is not Peter but Christ who gives us unity, as it is Christ who gives us his body in the Eucharist.
The early Fathers speak of the Eucharist as the binding force of the Church. Christ as the only head. As for visible leaders it was both the Patriarchs and the emporer who were charged to bring about the Pax Christi.

 

[Arnobius]

I don’t follow.
Did Christ preach in Rome? Did he establish a Church with himself as the cornerstone or did he found Rome as the center of the world?
Have the Orthodox changed any belief since the time of the schism? In the end it is not Peter but Christ who gives us unity, as it is Christ who gives us his body in the Eucharist.
The early Fathers speak of the Eucharist as the binding force of the Church. Christ as the only head. As for visible leaders it was both the Patriarchs and the emporer who were charged to bring about the Pax Christi.

Where did Christ give such authority to the emperor?

 

[surgei]

Where did Christ give such authority to the emperor?

Render unto ceaser that which is ceasers.
Paul teaches that the government wields the sword by the will of God.
Tradional Christianity saw them as the two authorities God has left to man. As such Emporers participated in many councils and in fact called them.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

You can read true history in the library or you can read catholic history as interpreted by the catholic church.

The true history in the library written by those who hate the Catholic Church? One is really going to get true history from anti-Catholics.

 

[dessert]

Yes, let us look at what happened to Paul the message is for all of us. There is nothing impossible for God, he said he would go down to hell and drag us by our hair, that is how much he loves us. Paul humbles himself and you do not need to remind me or God of Pauls sins. All who God chose where sinners even Moses, King David etc.

Yes! St. Peter fell also, but it was meant for his good, for he was choosen by God. He had to learn that he could “do nothing with out God” for God was preparing him for a great task. We all learn nothing from success for success teaches you nothing! But experiencing failure is what gets you there and teaches you.

But I am sure if St. Peter asked Jesus to help him he would of. He had to experience the fall first to know that with out God we can do nothing for Jesus knew he was leaving the earth.

Remember also Jesus told St. Peter the Holy Spirit will take you where you DO NOT WANT TO GO!

Fallow me. We all need to experience and to do that we need to fallow Jesus. Experience what he experience, humbleness, sorrow, suffering, be spit upon, rejected, to be in need of forgiveness, to need compassion etc. For you cannot give what you do not have! You cannot give compassion unless you yourself experienced the pain and loss of not having received yourself compassion. It goes the same for mercy, love, joy, suffering, forgiveness etc.

That is why we need to conquer ourselves first with the grace and infinited mercy of the Lord in simply asking him. We cannot give what we do not have. God’s word is to be lived, experience then and only then can we understand more spiritually the message of God’s words. We need to accept, live in the word, fallow the word, become “ONE” in the word. God said himself it is futile to argue over his word.

Jesus said: “my father never leaves me for I do all that pleases him” We need to live the word, experience living in the word, the little messages first, don’t you think.

I could go to mass every day or even once a week walk into the Catholic Church, but come out the same person that I went in. I have seen others who go every day and come out no better than when they went in.

You can have all the religious pictures in your home, all relics around your neck, carry the bible where every you go but they will not save you. It is God who makes us “HOLY”. God knows when and all that we need.

We have to know our nothingness first. We have to ask God to help us conquer our wickness. self pride, vanity, greed, self righteousness, attitude, self serving, judgemental, lust, rudeness, drunkeness, gambling, smoking, glutton in our own wants etc.

How foolish is the human mind.

God Bless

If there is no change there is no growth, the blade of grass does grow and seed also, unless it is cut too short or not watered or tendered.
The Catholic Church does water through all it’s members.
When we walk into the physical Church we do affect each other greatly, and we are to be as salt or nuturing and seasoning.
Why do I feel like I am making a salad?
You are sort of mesmerizing but it does get me to thinking.
My dh likes to discuss with me how Paul’s"conversion/completion" happened so instantly as in contrast but not critizising Peter’s slow on the go or uptake, living and breathing with Jesus have you got it now Peter, learning and going through the trials as you say experience.
If you only live through experience you are in for a rough ride. Thanks and God bless you too!

 

[Arnobius]

Render unto ceaser that which is ceasers.
Paul teaches that the government wields the sword by the will of God.
Tradional Christianity saw them as the two authorities God has left to man. As such Emporers participated in many councils and in fact called them.

And yet we Catholics are accused of taking scriptures out of context

Said verse speaks of the fact that one can be obedient to a secular authority in the secular realm (Christ speaking at a time when the emperors were pagan). There is nothing intrinsically Christian about the Emperor, any more than there is about a president or king.

Of course Emperors (as well as the Patriarchs of Constantinople) embraced many errors such as Arianism, Nestorianism, Monophysite errors Monothelitism, Iconoclasm and others while the Roman See did not.

 

[planter654]

If there is no change there is no growth, the blade of grass does grow and seed also, unless it is cut too short or not watered or tendered.
The Catholic Church does water through all it’s members.
When we walk into the physical Church we do affect each other greatly, and we are to be as salt or nuturing and seasoning.
Why do I feel like I am making a salad?
You are sort of mesmerizing but it does get me to thinking.
My dh likes to discuss with me how Paul’s"conversion/completion" happened so instantly as in contrast but not critizising Peter’s slow on the go or uptake, living and breathing with Jesus have you got it now Peter, learning and going through the trials as you say experience.
If you only live through experience you are in for a rough ride. Thanks and God bless you too!

Dessert

When I was expressing the blade of grass I was speaking or should I have explained it better is this I read this in " the little child of Jesus… St. Teresa said in her diary, that we are all dearly loved and valuable to God in his sight.

Little St. Theresa wanted to “do great things” for God. Little St. Theresa was hiden in a convent.This was God’s answer which he gave to Little St. Teresa. God answer was very simple…he took the beauty of the rose, liliy the grass. We all are call to greatness, Holyness. We are all of great value to our Heavenly Father.

We all cannot be Pope or President and it doesn’t mean that we are less valued in the sight of God. What ever our call is, where ever God places you whether to be a mother, sister, housemaid or delievering news papers etc only that we accept God’s will and desire for us. That we seek to do it as perfectly as we can serving God and pleasing him in our own little way. Where ever God has placed you. Whether you are a rose it does not take away the beauty of the little lilies that surround the rose. But the rose, lilies, grass gathered together as “one” when God gazes upon his garden we radiate our faithfulnes, our love, for him. Glorifing God our creator.

Like the woman who put all her money in the basket not keeping nothing for herself, trusting in God to provide all. She keep not one cent. Where the rich man gave out of his abundance. She gave more then the rich man. No one knows but God, the great scarifices souls, his children do, because of their great love for God. I do not know if I am still saying or explaining it right. It is hard for me to express it.

Like Mother Theresa said we are all call to become saints. We do not have to “do great extraordinary things”, but it is the little things we do and the ones we do in secret that makes them great in the eyes of God when we do them all for LOVE…God.

Little child of Jesus… St Teresa was hidden and lived a very short life and suffered greatly and joyfully. The world knew her not, till after her death. She was commanded to write her daily dairy for the nuns knew. She did not want her diary to be printed till after her death or when the Pope said so. She said she did not want to interfer in the work of God. St. Teresa wisdom was even beyond the Catholic Church in her messages. That is why she is called DR. of the Church. It was her simple life. Get her books. I just cannot explain

God Bless.

 

[planter654]

If there is no change there is no growth, the blade of grass does grow and seed also, unless it is cut too short or not watered or tendered.
The Catholic Church does water through all it’s members.
When we walk into the physical Church we do affect each other greatly, and we are to be as salt or nuturing and seasoning.
Why do I feel like I am making a salad?
You are sort of mesmerizing but it does get me to thinking.
My dh likes to discuss with me how Paul’s"conversion/completion" happened so instantly as in contrast but not critizising Peter’s slow on the go or uptake, living and breathing with Jesus have you got it now Peter, learning and going through the trials as you say experience.
If you only live through experience you are in for a rough ride. Thanks and God bless you too!

Dessert… your right when you said if you only live through experience you are in for a rough ride…Jesus did not say we would not suffer. If we want to become one in Jesus in all things then get ready! We will also share with him in suffering, but do not forget the great joy also. God Bless

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

Let’s get back on subject folks.

Thanks.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Let’s get back on subject folks.

Thanks.

If Rome is wrong, I would be Eastern Orthodox. I would never be Protestant because Protestantism is man-made and does not come from God.

 

[mangy_dog]

Our NO is starting to adopt some Latin even a little because we have to obey the bishop.

Pope Benedict xvi is going to visit the USA next year so what if he says to the bishops all must adopt a little latin, what are you Eastern Catholics going to do? They are making us they can make you too.

We have gotten the word and I think it will happen to all, Coptic all the ones that were listed, don’t shut your ears and eyes to this because I believe it is happening now.

They took away our ignatious press hymn books, now ignatious is a good old Catholic press, and we aren’t getting a new one yet but I know it will have Latin in it.

I think , but of course it is a personal idea or speculation but we are getting the vibes pretty sure, you will have to mix Latin in with your Greek, and maybe even show proof such as purchased texts.

We were not asked if this is what we want but expected to honor our bishop and priest.

Woooo Hoooo yyyyyyyeeeeeessssssssss!!!
Long live Benedict XVI , de gloria olivae.

I hope it happens sooner than his visit to the U.S.
N O has been abused and is getting out of hand in some places.
The time is coming (and it is very near) when we catholics from East and West, North and South will have to show our allegiance and true colors (Yellow and White) …my allegiance is with the Roman Pontiff, Benedict XVI. My allegiance will continue to be with Petrus Romanus, whenever that happens. These are heroic times we live in my brothers and sisters. No time to be like sails in the wind, going with every shift of doctrine and philosphy.
Stay with the sound doctrine of Jesus Christ and His Pope, Benedict XVI.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Surgei,

I don’t follow.
Did Christ preach in Rome? Did he establish a Church with himself as the cornerstone or did he found Rome as the center of the world?
Have the Orthodox changed any belief since the time of the schism? In the end it is not Peter but Christ who gives us unity, as it is Christ who gives us his body in the Eucharist.
The early Fathers speak of the Eucharist as the binding force of the Church. Christ as the only head. As for visible leaders it was both the Patriarchs and the emporer who were charged to bring about the Pax Christi.

Matthew 16:18 “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.” St. Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the Church was to be built; Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same.