If Rome is wrong, where do you go?

[Isa_Almisry]

The Pharisees had that problem with Christ
And of course the Sadducees stubbornly refused everything not in the Pentateuch

Of course given that it was Rome insisting on the proper interpretations of the councils against those Emperors and Patriarchs who embraced the Christological heresies it makes one wonder about what an interpretation separated from the Pope leads to.

Ask pope Honorius. And Pope Zosimos the reluctant and Pope Vigilius the tardy while you are at it.

 

[surgei]

I disagree, bishops are part of the Roman Catholic church

The catholic or “universal” church is what Jesus intented to build

go to
justforcatholics.org/a180.htm

so, If Rome is wrong, where do you go?

To the word of God, the bible and let God speak to you His truth.

May we all agree on His truth

Fish

Neither I nor the early believer that said it first had the Roman Catholic Church in mind.
If the word of God alone is what gives truth how is it their are tens of thousands of Christians all reading from the same texts. All with differing and counter positive statements.
Not only did Jesus intend to build a Catholic church as you use the term he built a Catholic Church (the word Catholic has the primary meaning of complete or full lacking nothing in greek). Not only did he, but the faith also endures as he promised. The Orthodox have not left him, nor has he left them.
by the way how is Gearoid Marley.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Do we need not to know the history of Moses, Abraham where they came from how they lived, their traditions, like ourselves today, we do have history books that explains to future generations, how we lived, our believes, why we did what we did, etc.

I found on google “Hebrews of Africa” a huge site of history. They… Moses Abraham etc came from Africa, Ethopia is mention in the OT 2,600 times. Also on google is “Israelite Heritage” after reading and still reading I feel I can understand God’s I WILLS and God’s curses… in a simple way…Interesting.

God Bless

Planter:

Are you from Ethiopia?

 

[Arnobius]

Ask pope Honorius. And Pope Zosimos the reluctant and Pope Vigilius the tardy while you are at it.

Tired old canards, oft refuted :yawn:

The condemnations were at best that these men failed to act or that some writings were ambiguous.

But Nestorius was Patriarch of Constantinople
Eutyches was an Archpriest of Constantinople
Those who took the position held by Rome tended to wind up in exile while those embracing the Christological heresies wound up in power in the East.

But for the Roman See, these heresies would have swept over the world

Arianism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism, Monothelitism, Iconoclasm… all had official sanction of the East.

If you want to play a “Name Game” the scorecard for protecting true Christianity runs in favor of the West by a large margin

 

[DLC]

There was and is no need to pass on the keys to anyone else unless you are going to change the opening procedure that Peter has already established by Spiritual inspiration. These were not physical keys. These were not transferable keys (no where in scripture are the keys seen as transferable) This was the information man needed to be saved and enter the kingdom “not of this world”. Just as Peter said how one could enter, throughout his ministry he also said what would keep people out. Thus the promise of what he opened and shut would remain, what he bound and loosed would hold true.

If this idea is correct how come there is no mention of it outside the of the Gospels. Also, if Peter is so important how come the other Apostles never mention it nor is this idea found in any of the epistles? How come in Galatians Paul had to rebuke Peter if Peter was so important? The Bible tells us that our faoudation can be no one else but Christ, not any church or human or even a teaching magesterium, 1 Cor 3:11
11 **For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.**NASU

Eph 2:19-22
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
NASU

1 Peter 2:6
6 For this is contained in Scripture:

“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, **A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,**AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
NASU

 

[planter654]

LOL.​

Which is what is so unproductive & wearisome - all those who claim to be “The One True Church” can agree in making the claim: but none shows its truth by their behaviour. Their self-advertisement & boasting shows what they really are; a *really *Christian Church wouldn’t be obsessed with its own excellence, but would take the lowest place - just as Christ did.

And while all this rivalry is going on, the purpose for which Christ created a Church is ignored. Who *cares *who is superior to whom ? Popes & Patriarchs are going to rot anyway - much use their titles & boasting & authority will be when they’re judged. Men are nothing but grass & dust & wind - so we need Christ; He has no need of us or of any church. To give a mere Church - a thing composed of sinful,ignorant & needy men - the place of Christ, is sheer idolatry.

Planter response--------.
Micheal… Thank you, Thank you, well said. That is what has “scared me” when RCC say’s… “the only way to get to heaven is through tha Catholic Church”!

I use to call myself Catholic, then when I hear things like that. I thought what dishonor to God, to our Lord Jesus Christ, God my creator.

Jesus never spoken with such threats or forcing peoples will, but preached and spread the word, was crucified for us. Jesus even said: " Do not call me good for only “MY FATHER IS GOOD”. Humble, great humility.

Jesus said: I came to set you “free from bondage”, do you want to bo back :“into bondage again”!

I rather call myself now…a very little child of God.

WEll said Mich
Let them compete to be crucified & to lay down their lives for their brethren - that is the test of who is superior, of who is really Christian.

 

[planter654]

If this idea is correct how come there is no mention of it outside the of the Gospels. Also, if Peter is so important how come the other Apostles never mention it nor is this idea found in any of the epistles? How come in Galatians Paul had to rebuke Peter if Peter was so important? The Bible tells us that our faoudation can be no one else but Christ, not any church or human or even a teaching magesterium, 1 Cor 3:11
11 **For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.**NASU

Eph 2:19-22
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
NASU

1 Peter 2:6
6 For this is contained in Scripture:

“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, **A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,**AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
NASU

Apostles went in pairs all over the nations or country to preach. I believe Pete is still holding the keys, he is not dead and gone. Build upon Peters foundation with Christ as the cornor stone.

If anyone comes and preaches a different gospel then us for whom we are “wittness” do not accept them.

Sounds like a lot of adding, subtracting (removing importants of this and that), changing how to do this, how to do that etc.

What ever I am lost, I am going to Jesus directly to teach me all that pleases God our Heavenly Father.

I am so confused trying to fallow the RCC. I do not think Jesus was so over the top in preaching God’ word to us, for he knows how, very little we all are, don’t you think?

god Bless

 

[planter654]

Planter:

Are you from Ethiopia?

Yes! Yes! Yes! it is Scientic fact that we all orginated from Africa period! Fact! proof! And we do know that in Egypt, Ethiopia etc are in Africa. Abraham, Moses etc. The Egyptions in Moses time were black…King Tut was Pharoahs grandfather they were the rich Black Africians, the Hebrews were Black Africian slaves to the Egyptions who build what for them??

That is why Ethiopia is mentioned over 2,600 times in the OT. And I ask you why is this such a big deal.

At Joseph’s father’s burial… Israel, it was huge and the people thought it was an Egyption funeral, the Egyptions were Black. Read this in the bible it states how big the funeral was!

Like us today rich… White, poor… White. We are all God’s children and we have still not learned that!

Moses mother was a “Black Hebrew slave woman”. The Pharoahs–were Black also. Look at all the cravings on their walls and still being unearth today.Look at King Tut now.

Moses could not pass as Pharoah’s grandson being “white” do you think? That is why I believe in understanding Jesus was sent to Egypt to “HIDE” there.

In the Old Testament were they all lived was in Africa, go and check the names of these countries out do your own reserch, or just look around at all the cravings on the walls etc.

If I went through the desert, I as a White fair skin person, would be burned like crazy!
Just ask! the soldiers who have returned from Iraq how many burns are treated.

Any way I am from where ever Abraham is from, for I am from his seed, now that Jesus Christ has saved me.

God Bless That is why I do not like these White paintings of Abraham, why have they done so?

 

[surgei]

Yes! Yes! Yes! it is Scientic fact that we all orginated from Africa period! Fact! proof! And we do know that in Egypt, Ethiopia etc are in Africa. Abraham, Moses etc. The Egyptions in Moses time were black…King Tut was Pharoahs grandfather they were the rich Black Africians, the Hebrews were Black Africian slaves to the Egyptions who build what for them??

That is why Ethiopia is mentioned over 2,600 times in the OT. And I ask you why is this such a big deal.

At Joseph’s father’s burial… Israel, it was huge and the people thought it was an Egyption funeral, the Egyptions were Black. Read this in the bible it states how big the funeral was!

Like us today rich… White, poor… White. We are all God’s children and we have still not learned that!

Moses mother was a “Black Hebrew slave woman”. The Pharoahs–were Black also. Look at all the cravings on their walls and still being unearth today.Look at King Tut now.

Moses could not pass as Pharoah’s grandson being “white” do you think? That is why I believe in understanding Jesus was sent to Egypt to “HIDE” there.

In the Old Testament were they all lived was in Africa, go and check the names of these countries out do your own reserch, or just look around at all the cravings on the walls etc.

If I went through the desert, I as a White fair skin person, would be burned like crazy!
Just ask! the soldiers who have returned from Iraq how many burns are treated.

Any way I am from where ever Abraham is from, for I am from his seed, now that Jesus Christ has saved me.

God Bless That is why I do not like these White paintings of Abraham, why have they done so?

Egypt in this sense does not need to be the literal country as we think it today. Egypt is likely to be the vast deserts. The point was to get Jesus out of Herod’s teritory, not to hide him with people that look like him.
BTW I am an ethnic jew and I often pass for white. Would that I would have kept my mouth shut three years ago.

 

[whatisthetruth]

If the word of God alone is what gives truth how is it their are tens of thousands of Christians all reading from the same texts. All with differing and counter positive statements.

Surgei, are you serious? Does this surprise you?

During biblical times, there were people who were there and either heard about or actually witnessed the events did not believe the truth.

Or those who personally witnessed God’s power and made an excuse as it was something else.

i.e. Thomas did not even believe until Jesus revealed His hands to him

Surgei, you are a speaker in a room of 100 people
and those people went out and each told 3 people what you said…that’s 400 people that have the information. Then everyone each told 3 more people, you now will have 1600 people with information.

If I wanted to know what you said in the meeting, I can assure you that I will get 1600 variations of what you said, with all claiming that is what they were told and believe to be truth.

However, If I wanted the absolute truth, I would not base my faith and belief on the info anyone of those 1600 people gave me, I would be seeking information directly from you.

Here is my question and challenge, please find me on this site anyone who has said

Whenever I have a question to be answered, I seek the word of God the bible first and if there is something in HIs word I do not understand, then I will go directly to God in prayer for the absolute truth and not place my faith in any other resource.

My friend, God is your best friend and He will communicate directly with you. The hard part, as I have experienced it, is to open up your heart to His voice and not let past traditions, opinions, rituals, or anything else get in the way.

He is your heavenly Father and He loves you

Let us all find the absolute truth

truth

 

[planter654]

Egypt in this sense does not need to be the literal country as we think it today. Egypt is likely to be the vast deserts. The point was to get Jesus out of Herod’s teritory, not to hide him with people that look like him.
BTW I am an ethnic jew and I often pass for white. Would that I would have kept my mouth shut three years ago.

Please do not deny this truth. Nor tell me where Africa is. No Egypt is not the vast dessert. Remember Moses God took them out of Egypt through the desert to the PROMISE LAND…40 years. Pictures craved on mountains, in caves, on walls etc do not lie. Just look at them.

Go back in history to the thousands of generation in Abraham’s time, which I am not ashamed either way. God loves us all dearly, we are all his children. Yes, how many thousands of generations.

I do not know what the problem is, but many to some who want to depict it differently in their images.

God Bless…little child of Jesus

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Tired old canards, oft refuted :yawn

You mean oft swept under the rug.

The condemnations were at best that these men failed to act or that some writings were ambiguous.

Your chain is only as strong as its weakest links, as you claim the papacy as the link to heaven.

Some confirming the brethren, failing to act or being ambigous. With leadership like that, who needs heresy?

But Nestorius was Patriarch of Constantinople

And?

Eutyches was an Archpriest of Constantinople

Even bigger ‘And’?

Those who took the position held by Rome tended to wind up in exile while those embracing the Christological heresies wound up in power in the East.

But for the Roman See, these heresies would have swept over the world

Like ultramontism.

Arianism, Nestorianism, Monophysitism, Monothelitism, Iconoclasm… all had official sanction of the East.

Arianism lived on in the West, whereas it died out in the East.

Nestorianism. I have no clue who you are talking about here.

Monophyistism. I’ll have to give you that one. Of course, as it turns out, the monophysites weren’t monophysites at all.

Monotheletism. Honorius.

Iconoclasm. Council of Frankfurt.

If you want to play a “Name Game” the scorecard for protecting true Christianity runs in favor of the West by a large margin

Problem that you painted yourself in a corner: infallibity requires a perfect score card. And yours isn’t for the first millenium, let alone after 1054.

Since then you have been so swamped with heresies it seems, that you needed over a dozen more councils, far more than the rate we had in the East when we were all one. and we haven’t had the need for one.

Does protecting true Christianity include mangling her Creed?

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Yes! Yes! Yes! it is Scientic fact that we all orginated from Africa period! Fact! proof! And we do know that in Egypt, Ethiopia etc are in Africa. Abraham, Moses etc. The Egyptions in Moses time were black…King Tut was Pharoahs grandfather they were the rich Black Africians, the Hebrews were Black Africian slaves to the Egyptions who build what for them??

That is why Ethiopia is mentioned over 2,600 times in the OT. And I ask you why is this such a big deal.

At Joseph’s father’s burial… Israel, it was huge and the people thought it was an Egyption funeral, the Egyptions were Black. Read this in the bible it states how big the funeral was!

Like us today rich… White, poor… White. We are all God’s children and we have still not learned that!
…

Yes, judging a person based solely on the color of his skin makes about as much sense as judging a person based solely on the color of his eyes!



There’s a children’s song sung in the United States with the lyrics, “Red or yellow, black or white, they’re all precious in his sight.” Racism is a crime against God, the maker of us all.

 

[jburgherr]

Whenever I have a question to be answered, I seek the word of God the bible first and if there is something in His word I do not understand, then I will go directly to God in prayer for the absolute truth and not place my faith in any other resource.

So what happens when your neighbor does the same thing as you? He goes and reads the bible, prays to God for understanding, hears God speaking to him the absolute truth and understanding. The problem is, his understanding is different than yours… Did you hear God right or did your neighbor?

THAT is why their are 30,000+ Protestant denominations…Each of these pastors, crowning themself as their own Pope, interprets something different by reading from the same Bible. But each one THINKS that they have the absolute truth and understanding!!

Jesus Christ, true God and true man, knew how confused man can be reading or hearing the same words. The 2nd most precious thing that he could give the world would be a Church guided by the Holy Spirit to preserve and teach TRUTH. Jesus defined the structure. Peter was given the “Keys to the Kingdom”. He in effect named Peter to be Chancellor of his pilgrim church on earth (Pope). He then promised to save this church from teaching error by promising “…and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

If you are really listening to God, his soft, still voice is probably telling you to go down the street to the Catholic Church where you can hear him better. He’s waiting for you there: Body, blood, soul and divinity.

God be with you and have a Blessed Christmas!!

 

[planter654]

Yes, judging a person based solely on the color of his skin makes about as much sense as judging a person based solely on the color of his eyes!



There’s a children’s song sung in the United States with the lyrics, “Red or yellow, black or white, they’re all precious in his sight.” Racism is a crime against God, the maker of us all.

NO! as God is “my witness” I am not judging anyone, It is just History and fact, truth! Nothing in my statements says that. God knows your thoughts and he knows mine. But it is truth, and all men are created equal, we are all created in the image of God.

I was search ancient history.
God Bless

 

[planter654]

Yes, judging a person based solely on the color of his skin makes about as much sense as judging a person based solely on the color of his eyes!



There’s a children’s song sung in the United States with the lyrics, “Red or yellow, black or white, they’re all precious in his sight.” Racism is a crime against God, the maker of us all.

“My point exactly” and next time you are in the RCC or visiting the Vatican take a look around what do you see?

God Bless…a very little child of God

 

[planter654]

Yes, judging a person based solely on the color of his skin makes about as much sense as judging a person based solely on the color of his eyes!



There’s a children’s song sung in the United States with the lyrics, “Red or yellow, black or white, they’re all precious in his sight.” Racism is a crime against God, the maker of us all.

 

[planter654]

planter654:
That is why in my home I have no more statues or pictures of God because we are all created in the image of God, we are all equal. What is the image of God? HOLY, Love, truth, compassion, mercy, kindness, peace, joy etc.

God Bless

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi jburgherr

So what happens when your neighbor does the same thing as you? He goes and reads the bible, prays to God for understanding, hears God speaking to him the absolute truth and understanding. The problem is, his understanding is different than yours… Did you hear God right or did your neighbor?

You bring up a very good point.

THAT is why their are 30,000+ Protestant denominations

all hearing something differnt for the word of God

That does not surprise me. So here we are today. We have as you say…

“30,000+ Protestant denominations…Each of these pastors, …interprets something different by reading from the same Bible. But each one THINKS that they have the absolute truth and understanding!!”

That’s why I believe and even my pastor says, “do not place your trust in me or man but place your trust in the Word.”

The Word does not lie, but man will alter the truth of the word cause Satan is hard at work and wants to win souls to his side.

There is also the Roman Catholic teaching.

add 1 more to the 30000+ interpretaions with all claiming their way is the absolute truth.

So who is absolutely right?

you said…

Jesus Christ, true God and true man, knew how confused man can be reading or hearing the same words. The 2nd most precious thing that he could give the world would be a Church guided by the Holy Spirit to preserve and teach TRUTH.

I agree

then you said

Jesus defined the structure. Peter was given the “Keys to the Kingdom”. He in effect named Peter to be Chancellor of his pilgrim church on earth (Pope). He then promised to save this church from teaching error by promising “…and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

Here is one of many misunderstandings of the word…

Was Peter the first pope or not?

What did Jesus mean when He said…

Matthew 16:18,19
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church,. …whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven,
and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven"

when we look at another verse, we get a different meaning, From the following web page…
justforcatholics.org/a89.htm

It is evident that Christ gave authority to the apostle Peter. “And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven,
and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 16:19). At issue is whether this authority was unique to Peter. Evidently it was not, for soon afterwards Jesus gave exactly the same authority to all the apostles, “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven,
and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven” (Matthew 18:18). Hence Peter had an authority similar to the other apostles, and not an authority over them

interesting, Now Peter is on the same level as all the other apostles and not above them as the pope is.

I am not claiming to have the know it all truth, only God has that ability. However, I do believe that scripture can be turned around and twisted to meet the favor of any man. Easy to do when one verse is taken out of context.

there will be variations on what people hear from God. God leads people in different ways to unite His church.

The bible says…

2 Timothy 3:15-17

Paul’s Charge to Timothy
15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

not all can be a choir member, someone needs to be the conductor, or the accountant, or the janitor or the greeter all are important.

I believe we share a belief system which is the foundation in all Christian churches…

We agree God is real and truth
We agree God loves us
We agree God made Himself flesh in Jesus
Jesus was born of virgin Mary
Jesus was crucified to take the punishment for our sins
Jesus was buried, rose from the dead and ascended in human form into the clouds and then into heaven
through Jesus’ blood we are forgiven of our sins

in summary of the above agreements, God’s word says

**Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. **

jburgherr, after reading that verse, what is God saying to you?.

When was the last time a priest asked you,
have you accepted the gift of eternal life which God is offering in Romans 6:23?

May we all agree on the truth

Have a Merry Christmas

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

we are all created in the image of God, we are all equal. What is the image of God? HOLY, Love, truth, compassion, mercy, kindness, peace, joy etc.

well said planter I absolutely agree. Because we are all equal God has no favorites.

And because God is “HOLY” we as sinful children cannot reign with Him in heaven unless we have been saved by the blood of Jesus.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John3:16

When is the last time you heard that verse in church?

The most precious gift anyone can receive by opening your heart to Jesus and asking Him to come in as Lord and Saviour

Merry Christmas