If Satan was fictional

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I wonder why Satan, knowing he’s lost (and has been lost) never asked for forgiveness. Apparently he is so evil he doesn’t care. That’s why I have always has trouble with Lucifer having free will. God knew he would rebell because the human race needed a good/evil balance, otherwise WE wouldn’t have free will.

If you think about it, he’s a very stupid angel. Already knowing that your future is perpetual pain, and that you WILL lose. Then again there are some pretty stupid people too.

But again it seems it comes back to the need for evil, otherwise we can’t choose good, therefore no free will. Very complex.
 
johnnyjones said:
I wonder why Satan, knowing he’s lost (and has been lost) never asked for forgiveness. Apparently he is so evil he doesn’t care. That’s why I have always has trouble with Lucifer having free will. God knew he would rebell because the human race needed a good/evil balance, otherwise WE wouldn’t have free will.

If you think about it, he’s a very stupid angel. Already knowing that your future is perpetual pain, and that you WILL lose. Then again there are some pretty stupid people too.

But again it seems it comes back to the need for evil, otherwise we can’t choose good, therefore no free will. Very complex.
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“But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian’s daily and nightly prayers, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest?”
  • Mark Twain’s Autobiography
 
Gaber said:
“But who prays for Satan? Who in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most, our one fellow and brother who most needed a friend yet had not a single one, the one sinner among us all who had the highest and clearest right to every Christian’s daily and nightly prayers, for the plain and unassailable reason that his was the first and greatest need, he being among sinners the supremest?”
  • Mark Twain’s Autobiography
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Why do you have to pray for him? Early in his existence he could have asked God for forgiveness but chose eternal damnation. Stupid.
 
I think you underestimate the power of Evil. Remember, Satan is “The Ruler of this World” (Jn) and the “god of this World” (Paul), and all power on earth has been given to him, and he gives it to who he pleases (Luke). The history of the world is one of war, famine, plague, immorality, deception, destruction, etc. Our entire ecosystem is based on predation, destruction and death. The very flesh of man is constituted such that he tends towards sin.

Have alook at an big city- it is filled with vanity, poverty, prostitution, immorality, drugs, extravagance, evil, futility, etc.- then tell me that Satan has not be effective. Indeed, what are our skyscrapers and luxury hotels if not temples to the Lord of this World?
 
Qoeleth said:
I think you underestimate the power of Evil. Remember, Satan is “The Ruler of this World” (Jn) and the “god of this World” (Paul), and all power on earth has been given to him, and he gives it to who he pleases (Luke). The history of the world is one of war, famine, plague, immorality, deception, destruction, etc. Our entire ecosystem is based on predation, destruction and death. The very flesh of man is constituted such that he tends towards sin.

Have alook at an big city- it is filled with vanity, poverty, prostitution, immorality, drugs, extravagance, evil, futility, etc.- then tell me that Satan has not be effective. Indeed, what are our skyscrapers and luxury hotels if not temples to the Lord of this World?
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You are correct in your analysis but as intelligent and powerful as he is, the decision was still stupid. Again, Satan, it seems, needed to exist for the counterbalance to good.
 
Qoeleth said:
I think you underestimate the power of Evil. Remember, Satan is “The Ruler of this World” (Jn) and the “god of this World” (Paul), and all power on earth has been given to him, and he gives it to who he pleases (Luke). The history of the world is one of war, famine, plague, immorality, deception, destruction, etc. Our entire ecosystem is based on predation, destruction and death. The very flesh of man is constituted such that he tends towards sin.

Have alook at an big city- it is filled with vanity, poverty, prostitution, immorality, drugs, extravagance, evil, futility, etc.- then tell me that Satan has not be effective. Indeed, what are our skyscrapers and luxury hotels if not temples to the Lord of this World?
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Yes, but aren’t you lord of your world?
 
Qoeleth said:
No, it doesn’t seem to be that way…It’s not really my world.
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Oh? Whose world construct do you live in? Are you not in control of your reactions/responses to your perceptions? If you are, you just may be a world lord!

The only thing you didn’t make in your world is your sense of “I am.” That’s a given. If you say “I am me,” the “me” is totally what makes up your personal experience. So if you look into what constitutes “I am,” you can discover how to much more fruitfully understand and utilize the part you call “me.”
 
There’s an assumption in the original post that goes unanswered so far.

It assumes that one, with their own power, can defeat Satan.

Comparing him to Bond villains assumes that anyone can defeat them with their own power. And James Bond does defeat them with his own Power. GI Joe defeats Cobra Commander on their own power. In fact all the bad guys are defeated by the ordinary human good guys on their own power.

Satan, on the other hand, is so powerful, we needed Jesus Christ, the son of God, God himself, to conquer him. Yes, Satan is stupid because he is turning against God and all sin is stupid. But we cannot defeat him on our own power. The hordes in hell prove that easily. They attempted to defeat Satan using their own power instead of using the Power of God.

We need Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior to conquer him. Just ask your local Exorcist who drives out the demons. I doubt any real exorcist will say “I do” - they would say “Jesus Christ drives out the demons, using me as a vessel”

I’ll stick with Jesus Christ. I want him on my team. Let Satan go hungry.
 
I agree with you, and I’d just like to point one thing out - the total unbelievability of the Bible’s main antagonist may say something about the credibility of the rest of the book. Just some food for thought.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
I’ve also had the experience of something gripping me during the night, and on a couple of occasions of the bed shaking, as part of the process. I know others on this forum have experienced something similar, because I’ve seen them say so.

And they’re pretty strong. The only thing that’s stronger is God, and His angels. So when the grip ceases, as far as I’m concerned, it’s been ripped away by a “good” spirit, and certainly not by my own strength. I may as well try to stop a ten ton truck single handed.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis#Symptoms_and_characteristics
Was it something like this? I don’t doubt your sincerity, but I’d like to put forward an alternate explanation. Things like what you described aren’t all that uncommon.
 
Gaber said:
Oh? Whose world construct do you live in? Are you not in control of your reactions/responses to your perceptions? If you are, you just may be a world lord!

The only thing you didn’t make in your world is your sense of “I am.” That’s a given. If you say “I am me,” the “me” is totally what makes up your personal experience. So if you look into what constitutes “I am,” you can discover how to much more fruitfully understand and utilize the part you call “me.”
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Despite all my Christian, Stoic, Skeptic, Cynic, Buddhist efforts to the contrary, I do not really feel in total control of my reactions. I would love to be like Pyrrho, and not flinch when dogs attack, holding it to be indeterminate whether such things are good or bad. Or like Epictetus, and receive bad news with total indifference, but having no opinion on it. Or Diogenes and continue to walk about regardless of tempest and rain, as things indifferent. Or like Gotama Buddha, and feel no anger or fear when my body is being torn apart. Or like Jesus, and wish forgiveness on those who hurt me, or see poverty and riches, and mourning as happiness. I guess these people were really masters of their own world. But I am not…

Do you feel as if you are Lord of your own world?
 
Qoeleth said:
Despite all my Christian, Stoic, Skeptic, Cynic, Buddhist efforts to the contrary, I do not really feel in total control of my reactions. I would love to be like Pyrrho, and not flinch when dogs attack, holding it to be indeterminate whether such things are good or bad. Or like Epictetus, and receive bad news with total indifference, but having no opinion on it. Or Diogenes and continue to walk about regardless of tempest and rain, as things indifferent. Or like Gotama Buddha, and feel no anger or fear when my body is being torn apart. Or like Jesus, and wish forgiveness on those who hurt me, or see poverty and riches, and mourning as happiness. I guess these people were really masters of their own world. But I am not…

Do you feel as if you are Lord of your own world?
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That was quite a piece! 🙂 I enjoyed reading it.

You and I are lords of our our decisions and our thinking, and therefore of our world. We are not Lord of the World, (i didn’t use a capital, did I?) save by an insight of exceptional rarity, and that is not a matter of personhood in the last analysis. So while what appears to us as “exterior” may not be under our direct control as a phenomenon, our experience of it is. And ultimately, how we do that is what determines our experience of our self, our character, and even, though my definition of it is radically different, our salvation. As one man said, “‘You’ are the world you wander through. I hope you like it.”
 
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