If some Protestants profess that all they need is the Bible, then....

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Semper_Fi said:
Of course I do. I was being rhetorical. I was just wondering how you could come to the conclusion of all these “traditions of man” (which are really inspired Sacred Traditions with some disciplines thrown in) and keep using them without the Catholic Church and her Early Church Fathers.
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These traditions have meaning to many with faith in the RCC, I see that. These people say that they help increase their faith, Dr Hahn(who left the Reformed Church for the RCC) says Scripture underlies all these traditions we criticize. Maybe he is right? but I dont see it.

I know this, I have been given faith and something I never had before in the RCC. I can read Scripture and understand it. For years I couldnt understand it, it was under a veil of traditions and actions I never understood. After reading Scripture , I searched out the voice of my God. I found that voice in the Reformed Church. It is clear as day the truth that is here. Im not required to convince you, just being a faithful witness of what I know to be true. I answered the original poster with why we gather, and why we dont gather at the RCC. I believe thats what he was asking.

Im sorry if you were offended by the answer
 
Baraq said:
Subrosa

""for it is impossible that those, who are implanted into Christ by a true faith, should not bring forth fruits “”

Its clear, its your assumptions that are vague. You are mixing up Justification and Sanctification. We are justified by faith and faith alone, good works are part of sanctification . You are asking if an Apple Tree can produce thistles, if water can not be wet or the Sun not to be hot.

See…We become new creatures in Christ

We are Justified, thus we produce Works
like an Apple Tree will produce Apples(every seed after its kind)

But for justification alone, the Apostle says
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
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Baraq -

The Apostle is speaking about the Book of Laws the the Jews had. Jesus also chastised the Pharasees who put those works above God’s law.

Suppose Jesus Himself were to stand in front of you and say, “Do good works and you get to go to Heaven. Don’t do good works and you don’t get to go to heaven.” What would you say to Him?

Sub
 
Harpazo said:
If some Protestants profess that all they need is the Bible, then why even go to a church? This isn’t meant to be a demeaning question. I’m just curious if there is a reasonable, logical answer. When I was a Protestant myself, I often wondered why it was expected of me to attend a church. Yet I was told that all I needed was the Bible and the Holy Spirit can help me interpret it.

I’m hoping to receive logical answers from Protestants, and former Protestants are more than welcome to add their own imput. Thanks.

In Pax Christi
Andrew
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That’s easy: to worship as a community. This world is full of sin and bad influences. It’s nice to have a community of Christians to turn to for support and encouragement. 👍 Not to mention, I’m not very good at studying stuff, mainly due to my short attention span, so it’s nice to hear God’s Word being read and explained first, so that I can go back and read it and see why it means what it means.
 
Subrosa said:
Baraq -

The Apostle is speaking about the Book of Laws the the Jews had. Jesus also chastised the Pharasees who put those works above God’s law.

Suppose Jesus Himself were to stand in front of you and say, “Do good works and you get to go to Heaven. Don’t do good works and you don’t get to go to heaven.” What would you say to Him?

Sub
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There are laws with Promise. When we Love God with all our Heart , all our Soul; and all our Might, and Love Our Neighbor like ourselves we can produce acceptable fruit. Offerings that God will accept. ’ Good Works’ done for other reasons are in vain, they are just filthy rags
 
Baraq said:
These traditions have meaning to many with faith in the RCC, I see that. These people say that they help increase their faith, Dr Hahn(who left the Reformed Church for the RCC) says Scripture underlies all these traditions we criticize. Maybe he is right? but I dont see it.

I know this, I have been given faith and something I never had before in the RCC. I can read Scripture and understand it. For years I couldnt understand it, it was under a veil of traditions and actions I never understood. After reading Scripture , I searched out the voice of my God. I found that voice in the Reformed Church. It is clear as day the truth that is here. Im not required to convince you, just being a faithful witness of what I know to be true. I answered the original poster with why we gather, and why we dont gather at the RCC. I believe thats what he was asking.

Im sorry if you were offended by the answer
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But many of these same traditions (commonly called traditions of men by many Protestants) are carried on in the Protestant community and some have developed independently of the Catholic Church. Small list:

1.) Dates of Easter & Christmas
2.) Ash Wednesday (carried on in liturgical Protestant communities)
3.) Holy Communion celebrated only once a month if that
4.) Church buildings
5.) Pews/chairs for worship services
6.) Hymnals and hymns during services
7.) Sunday worship
8.) Liturgical Vestments for the Ordained
9.) Bible studies / Bible night on Wednesday
10.) Vacation Bible school
11.) Grape juice instead of wine for Holy Communion
12.) Seminaries
13.) Universities
14.) No baptism of infants or children under the denomination’s definition of the “age of reason”
15.) Witholding communion from children/infants (discipline of the Roman-Rite Catholic Church)
16.) The 5 Solas
17.) Bible divided into chapters & verses; name of Biblical books
…
 
Baraq said:
There are laws with Promise. When we Love God with all our Heart , all our Soul; and all our Might, and Love Our Neighbor like ourselves we can produce acceptable fruit. Offerings that God will accept. ’ Good Works’ done for other reasons are in vain, they are just filthy rags
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Baraq -

This is a very good answer! I applaud it! :clapping:
Just for reference, please read the Gospel of Matthew 25:31-46.

In Catholic theology this, with a few other conditions, constitute merit. The other conditions include: being in a state of grace; the deed must be morally good; it cannot have a supernatural motive; and the action must be acceptable to God or one that He has promised a reward.

The Bible simply does NOT teach faith alone merits justification. For further reference read chs. 1 & 2 of James.

Sub
 
Semper_Fi said:
But many of these same traditions (commonly called traditions of men by many Protestants) are carried on in the Protestant community and some have developed independently of the Catholic Church. Small list:

1.) Dates of Easter & Christmas
2.) Ash Wednesday (carried on in liturgical Protestant communities)
3.) Holy Communion celebrated only once a month if that
4.) Church buildings
5.) Pews/chairs for worship services
6.) Hymnals and hymns during services
7.) Sunday worship
8.) Liturgical Vestments for the Ordained
9.) Bible studies / Bible night on Wednesday
10.) Vacation Bible school
11.) Grape juice instead of wine for Holy Communion
12.) Seminaries
13.) Universities
14.) No baptism of infants or children under the denomination’s definition of the “age of reason”
15.) Witholding communion from children/infants (discipline of the Roman-Rite Catholic Church)
16.) The 5 Solas
17.) Bible divided into chapters & verses; name of Biblical books
…
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You forgot our 4th of July Picnic, Annual Softball game after Bible School, Chili Dinner , and Sunday Morn Coffee.
We try to tell our people these arent Religious observances without any sacramental benefit but who knows what they think

I’ll answer the ones that apply to the thread, that is the Sunday Worship and educational gathering. We believe its our duty to honor the Sabbath.

From the Hdlbrg Catechism.Question 103. What doth God require in the fourth commandment?
Answer. First, that the ministry of the gospel and the schools be [a] maintained; and that I, especially on the sabbath, ** that is, on the day of rest, [c] diligently frequent [d] the church of God, to hear his word, to use the sacraments, [e] publicly to call upon the Lord, and contribute to the relief of the [f] poor, as becomes a christian. Secondly, that all the days of my life I cease from my evil works, and yield myself to the Lord, to work by his Holy Spirit in me: and thus [g] begin in this life the eternal sabbath.
[a]: Deut. 12:19; Tit. 1:5; 1Tim. 3:14,15; 1Cor. 9:11; 2Tim. 2:2; 1Tim. 3:15
: Lev. 23:3
[c]: Acts 2:42,46; 1Cor. 14:19,29,31
[d]: 1Cor. 11:33
[e]: 1Tim. 2:1
[f]: 1Cor. 16:2
[g]: Isa. 66:23**
 
Subrosa said:
Baraq -

This is a very good answer! I applaud it! :clapping:
Just for reference, please read the Gospel of Matthew 25:31-46.

In Catholic theology this, with a few other conditions, constitute merit. The other conditions include: being in a state of grace; the deed must be morally good; it cannot have a supernatural motive; and the action must be acceptable to God or one that He has promised a reward.

The Bible simply does NOT teach faith alone merits justification. For further reference read chs. 1 & 2 of James.

Sub
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Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
 
Baraq said:
Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
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The point is, Baraq, that we cannot understand any verse of the Bible without observing all scripture. One cannot assume things or pick and choose. The Bible is a complete document.

The scripture states plainly that we cannot earn eternity on the merit of the works themself. Once again, the empty works of the law, works without meaning, cannot justify us.

But the verses I mention, along with others, make clear Jesus intent: do the good works with faith and without expectations and you will be rewarded.

Such is Catholic theology which is also biblical theology.

Sub
 
Baraq said:
You forgot our 4th of July Picnic, Annual Softball game after Bible School, Chili Dinner , and Sunday Morn Coffee.
We try to tell our people these arent Religious observances without any sacramental benefit but who knows what they think

I’ll answer the ones that apply to the thread, that is the Sunday Worship and educational gathering. We believe its our duty to honor the Sabbath.

From the Hdlbrg Catechism.Question 103. What doth God require in the fourth commandment?
Answer. First, that the ministry of the gospel and the schools be [a] maintained; and that I, especially on the sabbath, ** that is, on the day of rest, [c] diligently frequent [d] the church of God, to hear his word, to use the sacraments, [e] publicly to call upon the Lord, and contribute to the relief of the [f] poor, as becomes a christian. Secondly, that all the days of my life I cease from my evil works, and yield myself to the Lord, to work by his Holy Spirit in me: and thus [g] begin in this life the eternal sabbath.
[a]: Deut. 12:19; Tit. 1:5; 1Tim. 3:14,15; 1Cor. 9:11; 2Tim. 2:2; 1Tim. 3:15
: Lev. 23:3
[c]: Acts 2:42,46; 1Cor. 14:19,29,31
[d]: 1Cor. 11:33
[e]: 1Tim. 2:1
[f]: 1Cor. 16:2
[g]: Isa. 66:23**

But why observe on Sunday unless it was because it was a Tradition (capital T)?
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BrianH said:
Are you saying that somene who reads the Bible would worship on Saturday instead of Sunday…an Adventist Catholic?
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Many parishes do have a Mass on Saturday nights that count for the Sunday Obligation.

In Pax Christi
Andrew
 
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