If someone believes in Jesus is fully God and fully man yet denies the Holy Spirit is a part of God?

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Well, he could be Catholic, as I would also agree that Jesus is fully God and fully Man and that the Holy Spirit is not part of God. The Holy Spirit is God.

However I think this may be what you meant he was denying. If this person also denied the Divinity of the Father he may be some sort of Unitarian (believing in one God existing as one Divine person.) If he believes that God exsists as only two Divine Persons, The Father and the Son, he may be something between a Trinitarian and a Unitarian. I’ve never heard of a name for this so I’ll call it Binarianism.
 
Leopard said:
Well, he could be Catholic, as I would also agree that Jesus is fully God and fully Man and that the Holy Spirit is not part of God. The Holy Spirit is God.

However I think this may be what you meant he was denying. If this person also denied the Divinity of the Father he may be some sort of Unitarian (believing in one God existing as one Divine person.) If he believes that God exsists as only two Divine Persons, The Father and the Son, he may be something between a Trinitarian and a Unitarian. I’ve never heard of a name for this so I’ll call it Binarianism.
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Hi

I think this is all confusion and blind faith, and has got nothing to do with JesusYeshuaIssa. It is a teaching of Paul, not of Jesus.

Thanks
 
I thought god is god and jesus is jesus. So, are you saying jesus is really god? I read this on another site. :confused:
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

I think this is all confusion and blind faith, and has got nothing to do with JesusYeshuaIssa. It is a teaching of Paul, not of Jesus.

Thanks
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This is the teaching of Jesus.
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”
John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”
If someone denies the Trinity, they would not be Christian.
 
how can Jesus (a) be fully God and fully man at the same time.
please don’t get offended as I’m only asking the question from my observation.

If you think about it God is an independent being, i.e. He is independent from any internal or external elements. On the other hand man is a completely dependent being. Man’s physical survival depends on his body parts like lungs to breath oxygen, kidneys to filter blood, food to nourish the body etc…etc…
 
famdigy said:
how can Jesus (a) be fully God and fully man at the same time.
please don’t get offended as I’m only asking the question from my observation.

If you think about it God is an independent being, i.e. He is independent from any internal or external elements. On the other hand man is a completely dependent being. Man’s physical survival depends on his body parts like lungs to breath oxygen, kidneys to filter blood, food to nourish the body etc…etc…
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famdigy, I am not offended by your question – it is a natural one, and any Christian who does not think it is one and condemns a non-Christian for asking it does not appreciate the mystery of the Incarnation and the Trinity.

Christians do understand God to be an independent, self-sufficient, non-contingent being. We believe, however, that God took on human nature in order to reveal fully to us the nature of God, specifically that God is love.

We believe Jesus’ accepting a humiliating human death in order to save humankind from sin is the ultimate act of God’s love for us.

We don’t see God loving us in this radical, extreme way as taking away at all from His divinity, from His independence, transcendance, majesty, etc. It is the limitations of our human understanding that hinder us from seeing that God’s complete self-donation to humankind comes directly out of essence of God’s being – love.
 
littlepaperstar said:
I thought god is god and jesus is jesus. So, are you saying jesus is really god? I read this on another site. :confused:
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Hello,

To whom are you addressing?

Most certainly NOT me!

I believe in the Triune God Not some heresy.
 
Excellent, but it does not address the Trinity, since the Holy Spirit is not addressed here.
adrift said:
This is the teaching of Jesus.
John 10:30 “I and the Father are one.”
John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me;
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM.”
If someone denies the Trinity, they would not be Christian.
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Dear Leopard, no catholic would say the Holy Spirit is NOT in the Trinity- you can not have a trinity without it…

This person is not a catholic, and says the Holy Spirit is “not a part of the Godhead”

:confused:

I know they are not JW, but I only know that so far. Because I do happen to know a touch about them and asked the pertinant questions to find out if they were JW, and turns out no.
Leopard said:
Well, he could be Catholic, as I would also agree that Jesus is fully God and fully Man and that the Holy Spirit is not part of God. The Holy Spirit is God.

However I think this may be what you meant he was denying. If this person also denied the Divinity of the Father he may be some sort of Unitarian (believing in one God existing as one Divine person.) If he believes that God exsists as only two Divine Persons, The Father and the Son, he may be something between a Trinitarian and a Unitarian. I’ve never heard of a name for this so I’ll call it Binarianism.
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nonsumd said:
does not appreciate the mystery of the Incarnation and the Trinity.

We believe Jesus’ accepting a humiliating human death in order to save humankind from sin is the ultimate act of God’s love for us.
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Hi

I humbly disagree with the above points. I have several times requested my friends here to kindly let us know all the mysteries of the Catholic faith:
  1. Authenticated by the Church with references
  2. with straight passages from the OTBible from where these has been formulated/originated
  3. with supportive reasons derived from the OTBible
Such thoughts are, as far as I think, brain working of some theologians, not of Jesus, to give some sort of sanctity for these irrational creeds having no origination from OTBible.

The DivineGuide, the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 has explained away that Jesus did not die on Cross, which is the central pillar of all such creeds, by reading his book ‘Jesus in India’ this pillar is removed and all such creeds crumble down with logical reasons and arguments:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
Kindly concentrate on this single point for solution of all so called Christian mysteries, which are in fact no more mysteries.

I am not a scholar, I am a sinful humble person, others could differ with me with reasons.

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

I humbly disagree with the above points. I have several times requested my friends here to kindly let us know all the mysteries of the Catholic faith:
  1. Authenticated by the Church with references
  2. with straight passages from the OTBible from where these has been formulated/originated
  3. with supportive reasons derived from the OTBible
Such thoughts are, as far as I think, brain working of some theologians, not of Jesus, to give some sort of sanctity for these irrational creeds having no origination from OTBible.

The DivineGuide, the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 has explained away that Jesus did not die on Cross, which is the central pillar of all such creeds, by reading his book ‘Jesus in India’ this pillar is removed and all such creeds crumble down with logical reasons and arguments:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/index.html
Kindly concentrate on this single point for solution of all so called Christian mysteries, which are in fact no more mysteries.

I am not a scholar, I am a sinful humble person, others could differ with me with reasons.

Thanks
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Pax tecum, Paarsurrey!

The “Mysteries of the Catholic faith” cannot all be authenticated in the Old Testament because they stem from the teachings of Jesus and His chosen Apostles, to whom he gave authority to teach His word. Any time there is a “development of doctrine” (really just a refinement of our understanding of the nature of God) coming from theologians and the Magisterium it is all done through the Apostolic Authority given by Jesus to the Apostles and passed down through the generations.

The nature of Apostolic Succession, I would think, should not be difficult for a person of the Islamic faith to understand, after all, you point out that the reading of the text Jesus in India debunks all of Christianity’s claims. However, that text was NOT written by Muhammad, but instead by “Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Promised Messiah and Mahdi
Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam” (quoted from the link in your post above).

Please explain (I admit I am mostly ignorant of Islam) the significance of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his position as Promished Messiah and Mahdi . From where does his authority to claim that Jesus was ever in India come and from where does he get his authority to teach in the Islamic tradition?

Once this is answered, I think, we shall be able to make some headway into mutual understanding of our differing faiths and the “Mysteries” behind them.

Pax Domine sit semper tecum!
 
Dear Parasurry,

With all due respect, I am asking about a so-called Christian here, NOT about Islam!

So far, I am not getting much in the way of understanding this particular heresy and getting you promoting Islam here! NOT my intent!

Good bye friend, and peace be with you and amoung you and all that.

But, I need to figure this out without your confusing the matter.
 
Ignatius2000 said:
Pax tecum, Paarsurrey!

The “Mysteries of the Catholic faith” cannot all be authenticated in the Old Testament because they stem from the teachings of Jesus and His chosen Apostles, to whom he gave authority to teach His word. Any time there is a “development of doctrine” (really just a refinement of our understanding of the nature of God) coming from theologians and the Magisterium it is all done through the Apostolic Authority given by Jesus to the Apostles and passed down through the generations.

The nature of Apostolic Succession, I would think, should not be difficult for a person of the Islamic faith to understand, after all, you point out that the reading of the text Jesus in India debunks all of Christianity’s claims. However, that text was NOT written by Muhammad, but instead by “Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Promised Messiah and Mahdi
Founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam” (quoted from the link in your post above).

Please explain (I admit I am mostly ignorant of Islam) the significance of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and his position as Promished Messiah and Mahdi . From where does his authority to claim that Jesus was ever in India come and from where does he get his authority to teach in the Islamic tradition?

Once this is answered, I think, we shall be able to make some headway into mutual understanding of our differing faiths and the “Mysteries” behind them.

Pax Domine sit semper tecum!
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Hi

I thank you for your serious queries about Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad 1835-1908 and his position as Promised Messiah and Mahdi and other contents of your post. I have been writing on the subject on this forum for bridging gaps between religions and to create understanding, tolerance and peace among them. I would be writing on all points raised by you in your post, God willing, in near future one by one by starting new threads for them if possible. I again say it is not to convert anybody unnecessarily but to increase mutual understanding and respect.

Thanks
 
Well, I just found out why this person has this view.

They do not go to a church of any kind and only read the bible on their own at home with no fellowship with anyone else.

So, thanks everyone for responding but this is a heresy there just is not a name for.
 
Hellisreal said:
:confused: What kind of chrisitianity is this?
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Likely, he is an Arian who also denies the deity of Christ, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christadelphians both come to mind.

The second possiblity is that of semi-arianism, also known as homean-arian which believes that the Son of God was birthed into existence before Time. they too deny the personhood of the holy spirit.

The third possiblity are called Bi-theists, and I can’t off the top of my head think of a group that fits this label execpt for maybe Seventh day Baptists or maybe Seventh Day Church of God. They at least recognise the deity of Christ, but often fall into a form of sabellianism for Father and Son.

Since, the Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of Christ, and we are informed that he who does not have the Son does not have life. I think one denying the personhood of the Holy Spirit is NOT a christian because they do not have the Holy Spirit ( which is the Spirit of Christ ) indwelling them. Simply put, no person of the Holy Spirit indwelling them, they do not belong to Christ because the Holy Spirit is God’s seal on the Christian, without the seal of God, they do not belong to God.

2 Corinthians 1:22
set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Ephesians 4:30
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
 
Romans 8:9-11 (New International Version)

9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
 
Thanks Dan,

I have always found your posts to be very helpful clear and filled with facts.

Hope all is well with you. I sure will miss reading your posts if this forum goes down.
 
while this one is down, please consider using that time to take network54.com/Forum/31001/ back from non-catholics there. And. accrourse when this one comes back up, come back.

Or it may be a good time for Al Kresta to revive his old board.
 
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