If someone told you that you would kill someone if the Pope told you to

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Damascus

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How would you respond?

Today someone at a birthday party mocked me and said I’d kill someone or burn an effigy if the Pope said to do it.

I just laughed and said that the Pope is not that kinda guy.

She said her point was proven. I did not defend my position and did not say I would not do it.

Rather than add fuel to the fire, I just added that if one really thinks this way about the Catholic Faith and Catholics in general, then there is no response that will satify them.

I wish I had said something more substantial since afterwards someone else said that she also thought the same way and now she is convinced!

How does one respond to something like this?
 
Interesting dilemma.

As you state very well yourself, it is a nonsense question, because it is not remotely likely. Yet as a loyal Catholic, if given an instruction by the head of the Church, you would like to think that you would obey.

I think the answer, however, should be that you would not- because your faith is more than what someone else tells you to believe. It consists of your relationship with the Risen Lord, of your reason~ your λόγος (logos) and the things you have learned about Jesus Christ. So you know that killing people, and burning efigies is NOT a part of Christian faith, no matter who told you to do it.
 
Of course we wouldn’t obey. The Church teaches that you do not follow a command of someone who tells you to sin. It doesn’t matter who it is. This does not mean we don’t hold the Holy Father as the head of the Church. However we as Catholics do not believe the Pope is infallible in everything he does either. He is still human.
 
rightandreason is correct. You are obligated to disobey an order to do something that is intrinsicly immoral. Even if it comes from a pope.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only times we are obligated to “obey” the pope is when instructed in matters of morality & faith. Correct?

I think what your friend misses is that as Catholics, we recognize that we have free will and are obligated to disobey a leader when some command violates our foundations. I remember hearing JP-II say once that freedom means the ability to choose the right course of action. Thank God for freedom…

SG
 
You can’t even put this in the hypotheticl category because the Pope would never ask something like that. Next time, tell her to ask a more reasonable question and not one of stupidity.
 
A Catholic philosopher once said that if His Holiness declared that 2+2=5, he would believe that 2+2=5.

Another Catholic philosopher answered him and said that if His Holiness declared that 2+2=5, he would say in public “we must have misunderstood the words of our most Holy Father”, and in private he would pray for the Pope’s sanity.
 
DiscerningDave said:
You can’t even put this in the hypotheticl category because the Pope would never ask something like that. Next time, tell her to ask a more reasonable question and not one of stupidity.
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Well, she was the host of the party and if I implied she was stupid that would be against my faith - Jesus would not be happy if I insulted someone in their own home as a guest!

😦
 
Caesar said:
A Catholic philosopher once said that if His Holiness declared that 2+2=5, he would believe that 2+2=5.

Another Catholic philosopher answered him and said that if His Holiness declared that 2+2=5, he would say in public “we must have misunderstood the words of our most Holy Father”, and in private he would pray for the Pope’s sanity.
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:clapping:
 
Damascus said:
Well, she was the host of the party and if I implied she was stupid that would be against my faith - Jesus would not be happy if I insulted someone in their own home as a guest!

😦
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I was once told there is no such thing as a stupid question, just stupid people. I agree, but I did not mean for you to literally say she was stupid.

I think it was an arch bishop who said this or something similar to this…“There is less than 100 people who hate the Catholic church and 1 million who hate what they THINK the Catholic church is.”
 
Damascus said:
Well, she was the host of the party and if I implied she was stupid that would be against my faith - Jesus would not be happy if I insulted someone in their own home as a guest!

😦
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Insulting someone, no.

Defending the faith with zeal. Oooooooh yeah. 👍
 
Magicsilence said:
Insulting someone, no.

Defending the faith with zeal. Oooooooh yeah. 👍
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My question was what would you have said!

You offer no response to that but make me feel like I screwed up.

How should I have done this better?
 
Damascus said:
How would you respond?

Today someone at a birthday party mocked me and said I’d kill someone or burn an effigy if the Pope said to do it.

I just laughed and said that the Pope is not that kinda guy.

She said her point was proven. I did not defend my position and did not say I would not do it.

Rather than add fuel to the fire, I just added that if one really thinks this way about the Catholic Faith and Catholics in general, then there is no response that will satify them.

I wish I had said something more substantial since afterwards someone else said that she also thought the same way and now she is convinced!

How does one respond to something like this?
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If it’s a man, ask him if he is still beating his wife.
 
She - and no I am not going to ask her if she is beating her overweight cop husband !!!
 
:rotfl:
Damascus said:
She - and no I am not going to ask her if she is beating her overweight cop husband !!!
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:rotfl

Generally, as a rule…when I am at a social event…I avoid topics of religion and politics. Because you will always end up ticking someone off with your view. You should have just either a)avoided the conversation and switched topics or b) told her straight forward that you do not discuss issues of religion in a friendly social setting.
 
Damascus said:
My question was what would you have said!

You offer no response to that but make me feel like I screwed up.

How should I have done this better?
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I think under the circumstances, you did just fine. I think that it was rude of her to back you into a corner like that. It makes me mad that she did that to you.
 
quote=Damascus;1517363]Well, she was the host of the party and if I implied she was stupid that would be against my faith - Jesus would not be happy if I insulted someone in their own home as a guest!
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😦

So it is perfectly alright to embarrass a quest and not a host? Under the circumstances, you did very well. We catholics most of the time witness by our actions, and you did just that. Sometimes silence is the best answer. But don’t let your silence be construed as cowardice and an excuse to embarrass you again next time.🙂
 
Damascus said:
My question was what would you have said!

You offer no response to that but make me feel like I screwed up.

How should I have done this better?
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Hi 🙂 again

In this specific situation, in hindsight, I would have said

“I am obedient towards the pope, just as I am obedient towards my parents. If they tell me to jump off a cliff, I might have reason to question their authority, however until that time, I trust in God to not lead me down the wrong path.”

Peace and God Bless in Christ Jesus.

p.s (I know, i know, its harder to do it in real life)
 
mommyof4 said:
I think under the circumstances, you did just fine. I think that it was rude of her to back you into a corner like that. It makes me mad that she did that to you.
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Mommy of 4,

Will you come with me to their next shin dig next month? Tons of food and tons of people, just all anti-catholic is all.

Thanks for the kind words. I was more shocked than mad , but now I am MAD!

I will show her — I’ll forget to put the sugar in my famous chocolate cherry cookies and let her see how it does not pay to insult a Catholic that cooks good cookies!:mad:

PS ITs all I can cook.😦
 
Damascus said:
Mommy of 4,

Will you come with me to their next shin dig next month? Tons of food and tons of people, just all anti-catholic is all.

Thanks for the kind words. I was more shocked than mad , but now I am MAD!

I will show her — I’ll forget to put the sugar in my famous chocolate cherry cookies and let her see how it does not pay to insult a Catholic that cooks good cookies!:mad:

PS ITs all I can cook.😦
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How about you find a nice Catholic shin-dig? That may be better for you.
 
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