If the Atonement was a Ransom or Christus Victor, how is the Divine Liturgy thought of in sacrificial terms?

[gurneyhalleck1]

Being new to studying the Orthodox Church and inquiring into it, I have been pondering some quandries I have regarding the Divine Liturgy and the sacrificial nature of it.

In the Catholic Mass the offering of the Eucharist is a propitiatory sacrifice that makes satisfaction to God for sin. The CC tends to have a more Anselmian approach to the Atonement so this is very logical to me. It is also a sacrifice of praise. But what do the Orthodox see in the way of sacrifice in the Divine Liturgy? Most Orthodox take the early Fathers’ views on the Atonement which include a ransom to Satan to win back the human race lost in the Fall through conquering death, the Christus Victor approach, and a few others in that same line of thought. The emphasis is not a sacrifice or giving honor to the Father that He deserves and lost, etc. So if the original actual Sacrifice at Calvary was more a ransom or just conquering death, how can the Divine Liturgy, being a re-presentation of that same sublime day of Atonement, be sacrificial? It doesn’t seem like there is a sacrificial element in Orthodox thinking? If Jesus was a death-conquerer but not an oblation, a propitiatory sacrifice, then I don’t understand how the DL relates to the event at Calvary and how the Orthodox see the DL?

I’d love to hear explanations and insight into this as I’m quite the novice and am eager to learn. I’m not looking for debate and polemics, just insight and help understanding this.

I most likely will be attending a DL again this Sunday, and I’d like to wrap my mind around it better.

Blessings to everyone

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

No takers so far. I’m bummed. I have been reading an Orthodox forum online and after several pages, all of the Orthodox Christians there could not agree if the Divine Liturgy is a sacrifice or not and it seemed very conflicting…

 

[tomarin]

I thought it was an interesting question and was looking forward to replies from the Orthodox posters here (or anyone familiar with Orthodox theology).

 

[dcointin]

I would say that based on the text of the Divine Liturgy, the Eucharist is most certainly offered to God. The following are some of relevant quotations from it in support of this argument:

“Lord, God Almighty, who alone art holy; who receivest the sacrifice of praise from all who call upon Thee with their whole heart; receive also the prayer of us sinners, and conduct it to Thy holy altar; and make us worth to offer unto Thee spiritual gifts and sacrifices for our own sins, and the ignorances of the people. And vouchsafe unto us to find favour in Thy sight; that our sacrifice may be well-pleasing to Thee; and that the good spirit of Thy grace may dwell with us, and upon these gifts lying before Thee, and upon all Thy people.”

“We offer unto Thee that which is Thine own from out of Thine own, in all things, for all things.”

“We offer unto Thee this reasonable and unbloody worship, and call upon Thee, and beseech, and supplicate Thee; send down Thy Holy Ghost upon us, and upon these gifts lying before Thee. And make this bread the precious Body of Thy Christ. And that which is in this cup, the precious Blood of Thy Christ. Changing them by Thy Holy Spirit.”

“We also offer onto Thee this reasonable worship for those who are at rest in the faith, our forefathers, fatheres, patriarchs, prophets, apostles, preachers, evangelists, martyrs, confessors, hermits, and for every righteous spirit departed in faith.”

“For these precious gifts offered and sanctified, let us pray to the Lord… So that our God, the lover of men, who receiveth them at His holy, most heavenly and invisible Altar as a spiritual and well-pleasing odour, may send down upon us in their stead, His divine grace, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, let us pray to the Lord.”

 

[Dave_in_Dallas]

From my understanding when pursuing this topic last year:
Mass & DL are both non-bloody sacrifices – not to be confused with Christ’s sacrifice on Golgotha. In one sense (but not the only sense) the non-bloody liturgical sacrifice in a re-creation of Christs sacrifice…

But to try to limit the Catholic or Orthodox view of Christ’s sacrifice to exclusively one view or the other is not appropriate like it would be for some Protestant denominations. The way the sacrifice acted was c) All the above. The term “atonement” even seems somewhat foreign to Catholics and Orthodox.

Christ died for us – that is what is important. The theological significance is affective on many levels and in many ways.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I actually think the Catholic Church is pretty firm on what the Mass’s purpose is as per the catechism, etc. It is an unbloody re-presentation of the sacrifice at Calvary. It is a saving atonement? I don’t think anyone is limiting the Mass but what I’m saying is, the Mass is indeed sacrificial. The term atonement is not at all foreign to Catholicism. Anselm and the Catholic Encyclopedia are very clear about it. Nobody is saying the Mass isn’t multi-dimensional but we’re focusing on the sacrificial aspect. It is a sacrifice to God the Father. In Orthodoxy, the sacrificial language of their atonement views isn’t there. They see things in terms of buying the human race back, ransom, overcoming death, etc. In a discussion about atonement/sacrifice, Orthodox don’t view God the Father as the recipient of Christ’s sacrifice giving Him back a restored honor that was lost in the Fall; that is Anselm’s belief. It’s more Catholic. So how can a sacrificial model be present in Orthodoxy when they mostly don’t see it as a sacrifice to begin with? A sacrifice must be offered to someone. If the ransom effect is true, then the sacrifice would be to Satan?

From my understanding when pursuing this topic last year:
Mass & DL are both non-bloody sacrifices – not to be confused with Christ’s sacrifice on Golgotha. In one sense (but not the only sense) the non-bloody liturgical sacrifice in a re-creation of Christs sacrifice…

But to try to limit the Catholic or Orthodox view of Christ’s sacrifice to exclusively one view or the other is not appropriate like it would be for some Protestant denominations. The way the sacrifice acted was c) All the above. The term “atonement” even seems somewhat foreign to Catholics and Orthodox.

Christ died for us – that is what is important. The theological significance is affective on many levels and in many ways.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I think what you are looking for is the theological emphasis of the Liturgy. In the Latin Church the emphasis is on the sacrifice and Christ’s death for our sins, while in the Byzantine Churches the emphasis is on the Resurrection, that Christ conquered death by death and we await our own Resurrection in Him. Now to be clear I am not saying that the Latin Church disregards the Resurrection and the Byzantine Churches disregard the Crucifixion. Just that the theological emphasis focuses on those two specific instances of really one event. That is why the Latin Rite Mass tends to be more solemn and the Divine Liturgy is more of a joyful celebration of the Resurrection.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

So there is no reference to a sacrifice in the DL? I thought there was? And if there is, to whom is the sacrifice being offered?

I think what you are looking for is the theological emphasis of the Liturgy. In the Latin Church the emphasis is on the sacrifice and Christ’s death for our sins, while in the Byzantine Churches the emphasis is on the Resurrection, that Christ conquered death by death and we await our own Resurrection in Him. Now to be clear I am not saying that the Latin Church disregards the Resurrection and the Byzantine Churches disregard the Crucifixion. Just that the theological emphasis focuses on those two specific instances of really one event. That is why the Latin Rite Mass tends to be more solemn and the Divine Liturgy is more of a joyful celebration of the Resurrection.

 

[Dave_in_Dallas]

oca.org/QA.asp?ID=202&SID=3

QUESTION:

What is the Orthodox belief regarding the “Sacrifice of the Mass?” Is it the same as Roman Catholicism or different? Could you please explain the similarities and differences? Thank you.

ANSWER:

Thank you for your inquiry.

The Divine, or Eucharistic, Liturgy of the Orthodox Church recalls, as one prayer from the Liturgy states, “all those things which have come to pass for us: the Cross, the Tomb, the Resurrection on the Third Day, the Ascension into Heaven, and the Second and Glorious Coming. …” The Liturgy is not so much a reenactment of the Mystical Supper or these events as it is a continuation of these events, which are beyond time and space. Unlike many of the Protestant bodies, the Orthodox also see the Eucharistic Liturgy as a bloodless sacrifice, during which the bread and wine we offer to God become the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ through the descent and operation of the Holy Spirit, Who effects the change.

As far as the order of the Liturgy, it follows the same basic outline as the Roman Mass – introductory psalms, scripture readings and homily, offering, Eucharistic Kanon and Epiklesis [Consecration], commemorations, the Lord’s Prayer, Holy Communion, and closing prayers with final blessing. However, the Liturgy that is generally celebrated is that of Saint John Chrysostom, which is much, much older than the order of the Mass currently in use among Roman Catholics and the Tridentine Mass that had been used prior to Vatican II.

 

[Madaglan]

So there is no reference to a sacrifice in the DL? I thought there was? And if there is, to whom is the sacrifice being offered?

There is reference to sacrifice in the DL. I believe the priest’s silent prayers include it, though the part that sticks out most to me right now is the prayer said aloud by the priest:

“We offer you yours of your own, in behalf of all and for all.”

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I thought so, Madaglan? Thanks. But my question is, to whom is the sacrifice directed if Orthodoxy rejects the idea that Jesus was sacrificed in our place or to restore God’s honor? If the ransom approach is taken to its conclusion, wouldn’t the sacrifice be offered to Satan? Now I KNOW the Orthodox do NOT believe that. But I’m asking, to whom is it offered and what is the common belief here? A sacrifice needs a recipient and a reason?

There is reference to sacrifice in the DL. I believe the priest’s silent prayers include it, though the part that sticks out most to me right now is the prayer said aloud by the priest:

“We offer you yours of your own, in behalf of all and for all.”

 

[ConstantineTG]

So there is no reference to a sacrifice in the DL? I thought there was? And if there is, to whom is the sacrifice being offered?

Like I said, there is. Its just not the emphasis. To emphasize on something doesn’t mean you disregard the other things (I thought I cleared that up with the first post), its just where the focus is.

Madaglan has already told you about the prayer the priest says after the bread and wine has been Consecrated to become the Body and Blood of Christ.

 

[Madaglan]

I thought so, Madaglan? Thanks. But my question is, to whom is the sacrifice directed if Orthodoxy rejects the idea that Jesus was sacrificed in our place or to restore God’s honor? If the ransom approach is taken to its conclusion, wouldn’t the sacrifice be offered to Satan? Now I KNOW the Orthodox do NOT believe that. But I’m asking, to whom is it offered and what is the common belief here? A sacrifice needs a recipient and a reason?

Christ offers himself as Sacrifice to his Father. We participate in this Sacrifice by offering ourselves up with Christ in the Divine Liturgy.

The difference is that the West tends to also see the sacrifice as propitiatory, while the East tends to see it as expiatory. In propitiatory sacrifice, it is the recipient who experiences change (as of attitude). God in receiving perfect sacrifice, is appeased of anger at sin. In expiatory sacrifice, it is the one who offers who experiences change. With the Sacrifice of Christ, we offer ourselves with Christ and all creation, and we receive these in return divinized. In becoming deified, our human nature is restored to incorruption and the passions are set in order, no longer tending to sin and death which separate man and God.

The West does have a sense of expiatory sacrifice. Last night I was reading Fulton Sheen’s The Priest is Not His Own, and in it, he touches on this where he writes of how in offering ourselves as victim to Christ, we partake in the divine nature (i.e. are deified). However, the West also inherits the idea that the Fall resulted in a change of attitude of God towards mankind.

Hope that helps. If interested in learning more, I recommend the book Surprised by Christ.

 

[Madaglan]

I thought so, Madaglan? Thanks. But my question is, to whom is the sacrifice directed if Orthodoxy rejects the idea that Jesus was sacrificed in our place or to restore God’s honor? If the ransom approach is taken to its conclusion, wouldn’t the sacrifice be offered to Satan? Now I KNOW the Orthodox do NOT believe that. But I’m asking, to whom is it offered and what is the common belief here? A sacrifice needs a recipient and a reason?

Just a quick add before I go to parish council meeting: the Divine Liturgy, in the amamnesis (remembrance) of Christ, recalls the Life, Death, Resurrection and Ascension of Christ. I’ve recently read a TLM prayer which says basically the same thing, but the Mass focuses more specifically on the Passion of Christ, which is why frequent mention of sacrifice makes sense.

 

[Barbkw]

We celebrate with Jesus, His once for all sacrifice, as He asked us to at the Last Supper. We offer Him back - the sacrificing of our sinfully desires (sins of omission and commission). He infills that vacancy with His grace.

 

[dcointin]

So there is no reference to a sacrifice in the DL? I thought there was? And if there is, to whom is the sacrifice being offered?

My post gives a number of quotations from the Divine Liturgy referring to the Eucharist as a sacrifice.

 

[Byzman]

I thought so, Madaglan? Thanks. But my question is, to whom is the sacrifice directed if Orthodoxy rejects the idea that Jesus was sacrificed in our place or to restore God’s honor? If the ransom approach is taken to its conclusion, wouldn’t the sacrifice be offered to Satan? Now I KNOW the Orthodox do NOT believe that. But I’m asking, to whom is it offered and what is the common belief here? A sacrifice needs a recipient and a reason?

It is the Triune God who is the recipient. When we say in the Liturgy “We offer you your own from your own” we are essentially saying “God this is you which we offer to you”…for a good reference to look into is “A Commentary on the Divine Liturgy” by St. Nicholas Cabasilas. I think you will find the answers you are looking for in this.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well that has always been my understanding, that Christ sacrificed Himself to God the Father, restoring us to life. But like I’ve said, I’ve read the Atonement theories a lot and the predominant view is Christus Victor or the Ransom view. In both Jesus is not sacrificing Himself to God the Father but rather either overcoming death or being paid to Satan to let us loose. So I’ve found it odd that God isn’t the one receiving the Sacrifice of Jesus on the historical day of Good Friday and yet at the DL God is the one receiving the sacrifice?

It is the Triune God who is the recipient. When we say in the Liturgy “We offer you your own from your own” we are essentially saying “God this is you which we offer to you”…for a good reference to look into is “A Commentary on the Divine Liturgy” by St. Nicholas Cabasilas. I think you will find the answers you are looking for in this.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Constantine, if I had cleared up this quandry, I wouldn’t still be asking…

Like I said, there is. Its just not the emphasis. To emphasize on something doesn’t mean you disregard the other things (I thought I cleared that up with the first post), its just where the focus is.

Madaglan has already told you about the prayer the priest says after the bread and wine has been Consecrated to become the Body and Blood of Christ.

 

[Bluegoat]

I wonder Scott if you are not running into problems partly because you are thinking in terms of models of the atonement? So we say, well, the West uses this one, and the East that, and the Protestants another?

But really, those models are just ways theologians have categorized the different ways other theologians talk about it. In reality, they are not all neat, separate ideas, and they are not mutually exclusive.

So the East tends to talk about Christ destroying death. But they also talk about Christ being offered as a sacrifice - they have to really, as it’s scriptural language. Both are true but they have preferred to emphasize one. (Or, to put it another way, all of the models are actually untrue and simply point us to an unspeakable reality.)

Which isn’t to say your question doesn’t make sense, because I think there have been some interesting answers on some differences of emphasis with the sacrificial understanding. But it might be helpful not to try to fit them into what are really created categories that people who need to compare theological ideas have come up with.