If the Church has troubles, how do we deal with them?

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CarloMagnus

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Pax tecum,

How many people on here think about doing what’s good for the Church? Do you carefully ponder if what you think about what is truly good for the Church truly means that it’s good for the Church? Do you examine the things that harm the Church? Do you recognize them? And if you do, what are you doing about it?

I’ve been asking myself these questions as of late, and I would to hear some different opinions.

-Karl
 
CarloMagnus said:
That’s just only obvious. I’m asking for the practical. The logical, reasonable approach to dealing with matters. I don’t want to repeat the question.

-Karl
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Well the rest of it is pretty obvious too - and scriptural even 🙂
  1. Talk one-on-one to whatever person or persons you have an issue with
  2. If they do not listen, try again with a witness or two.
  3. If they still do not listen, ‘go to the Church’ (whoever you haven’t already approached of pastor, bishop, Vatican, depending on what the problem is - in that order)
  4. When answers come, look at them carefully. If they are in your favour but others don’t listen, then ‘shake their dust from your feet’ - go to another parish if you can, or stay if you must but don’t interfere and do pray much for them and yourself.
Of course be prepared - you might actually be mistaken in your grievance. Something to ponder if you don’t get the answers you want.
 
LilyM said:
Well the rest of it is pretty obvious too - and scriptural even 🙂
  1. Talk one-on-one to whatever person or persons you have an issue with
  2. If they do not listen, try again with a witness or two.
  3. If they still do not listen, ‘go to the Church’ (whoever you haven’t already approached of pastor, bishop, Vatican, depending on what the problem is - in that order)
  4. When answers come, look at them carefully. If they are in your favour but others don’t listen, then ‘shake their dust from your feet’ - go to another parish if you can, or stay if you must but don’t interfere and do pray much for them and yourself.
Of course be prepared - you might actually be mistaken in your grievance. Something to ponder if you don’t get the answers you want.
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Oh I definitely can see I’m not getting the answers I’m looking for.

-Karl
 
CarloMagnus said:
Oh I definitely can see I’m not getting the answers I’m looking for.

-Karl
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Well, as an answer to your final question I think it’s perfectly adequate.

If you had asked a question that wasn’t really half-a-dozen in one, each deserving it’s own thread, then you might be more likely to get those answers 🤷
 
CarloMagnus said:
Oh I definitely can see I’m not getting the answers I’m looking for.

-Karl
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Asking a question that you have already perceived an answer to, does not make much sense. Don’t look for answers, look for truths.
 
I try to weigh my decisions on how things affect the Church, but first and foremost is God. There are many areas that a person or group of people can make positive influences on their parish. Positive influences spread like wildfire. The most important thing is to become involved with the parish and its committees and various groups. We have to take steps to mold our own parishes into vibrant examples of what the Catholic Church has to offer and that means living a catholic lifestyle in harmony with Church teachings and leading by example. There is no better evangelization that being authentic. Little things can make a huge difference. The Church needs to be consistant across the board in its teaching. As many of you who frequent CAF regularly see, is how varied in interpretation of the teachings of the Church catholics can be. Adult catechisis is a very good place to start. The trouble is, many catholics do not live their faith and are only “going through the motions” when it comes to Catholicism. I admit it… I have in the past been delinquent in continuing my education in the faith. Catholicism is not easy. There is sooo much to learn and understand. But, as catholics, we need to emphasize the importance of truely understanding what we are practicing and not only going through the motions. I have to admit, that if a comprehensive test on Catholicism was given to all practicing catholics regarding the teachins of the Church, I would probably score poorly even though I am constantly trying to educate myself on the faith. A strong Catholic Church begins with strong Catholics.
 
CarloMagnus said:
Oh I definitely can see I’m not getting the answers I’m looking for.

-Karl
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Perhaps we are just not understanding what is troubling you then…
I understand this somewhat as I have run into the same issue occasionally - something troubling me but just not able to really express it…

Is “GRATEFULONEjim’s” response more along the lines of what you are looking for?

Taking a look at the questions you asked in your OP…
**How many people on here think about doing what’s good for the Church? **
Pretty much everyone here - who is Catholic - think about doing what is good for the Church…

Do you carefully ponder if what you think about what is truly good for the Church truly means that it’s good for the Church?
I can only answer for myself here…I try (with varying degrees of success) to remain humble in such matters. It is sufficient to keep me busy just trying to keep myself on the right path without getting too vocal about other matters.

Do you examine the things that harm the Church?
Sometimes
**
Do you recognize them? **
Sometimes

And if you do, what are you doing about it?
At present - not much as my life situation does not permit me to do much outside the home. I DO spend a fair amount of time here on CAF building understanding, sharing with like minded Christians and striving to build up the Church.
Someday I would like to perhaps become more involved in my parish - possibly somewhere in the RCIA or adult Catechesis - something…Wherever God decides I should be.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Perhaps we are just not understanding what is troubling you then…
I understand this somewhat as I have run into the same issue occasionally - something troubling me but just not able to really express it…

Is “GRATEFULONEjim’s” response more along the lines of what you are looking for?

Taking a look at the questions you asked in your OP…
**How many people on here think about doing what’s good for the Church? **
Pretty much everyone here - who is Catholic - think about doing what is good for the Church…

Do you carefully ponder if what you think about what is truly good for the Church truly means that it’s good for the Church?
I can only answer for myself here…I try (with varying degrees of success) to remain humble in such matters. It is sufficient to keep me busy just trying to keep myself on the right path without getting too vocal about other matters.

Do you examine the things that harm the Church?
Sometimes
**
Do you recognize them? **
Sometimes

And if you do, what are you doing about it?
At present - not much as my life situation does not permit me to do much outside the home. I DO spend a fair amount of time here on CAF building understanding, sharing with like minded Christians and striving to build up the Church.
Someday I would like to perhaps become more involved in my parish - possibly somewhere in the RCIA or adult Catechesis - something…Wherever God decides I should be.

Peace
James
Click to expand...
You know, I had originally intended to write a completely different thread than from what you’re seeing here. I carefully thought to myself,“Would this get me banned?”

Imagine my surprise when I asked someone and the reply is,“The whole thing was offensive.” Then the following statement,“You can’t say this, you can’t say that, if you say this, I can’t help you, if you say that, you’ll definitely get kicked out, and if you say this you’ll alienate half of the forum members and the other half will go ‘Did he really say that?!’”

So, I’ve had to keep this as vague as possible because of forum rules. This is after all a friendly forum for everyone; unless the line is crossed. I simply CAN’T point out to my questions without causing scandal. In which turn, half the forum will go into an uproar, the other half will go,“Wow.” and a small portion will have an attack of hysteria.

So no, it’s not as easy as just saying it. I have to leave hints, lead people on to the original question and hope that someone here will get it. “I’m Johann, not Christ, I can only clear the way for He, but He must go through it.”

The whole purpose of this is to see how many people identify the problems. If you say sometimes, does that mean that you know parts of the problem? If so, what are they? Are you sure they’re really problems? How are these problems hurting the Church? What’s being done about it?

It’s simply not enough to just be humble about something. If the Church presented a closer community, would that be a step in the right direction? I mean, the Catholic Church IS a community, isn’t it? It should be able to unite people, particularly Catholic people, right? Then is one of the problems a lack of social unity? Should steps be taken to resolve it?

Now in the same turn, sometimes also means the other way around. You must mean that you don’t know what the problem is. So, ergo, you must only be paying half attention to what goes on around the Church. Am I anywhere near the truth?

-Karl
 
CarloMagnus said:
You know, I had originally intended to write a completely different thread than from what you’re seeing here. I carefully thought to myself,“Would this get me banned?”

Imagine my surprise when I asked someone and the reply is,“The whole thing was offensive.” Then the following statement,“You can’t say this, you can’t say that, if you say this, I can’t help you, if you say that, you’ll definitely get kicked out, and if you say this you’ll alienate half of the forum members and the other half will go ‘Did he really say that?!’”
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When you say you asked someone, do you mean like a moderator?
So, I’ve had to keep this as vague as possible because of forum rules. This is after all a friendly forum for everyone; unless the line is crossed. I simply CAN’T point out to my questions without causing scandal. In which turn, half the forum will go into an uproar, the other half will go,“Wow.” and a small portion will have an attack of hysteria.
Click to expand...
Possibly - in which case the moderators would step in to handle the situation.
So no, it’s not as easy as just saying it. I have to leave hints, lead people on to the original question and hope that someone here will get it. “I’m Johann, not Christ, I can only clear the way for He, but He must go through it.”
Click to expand...
But if what you are after is as volatile as you hint above…then what…When you “lead people on to” whatever you are getting at will there be less uproar? Or will someone else get banned for mentioning what you have not???
The whole purpose of this is to see how many people identify the problems.
Click to expand...
Do you mean “your” list of problems?
If you look around CAF you will find that different forums are likely to have different ideas of what the problems are.
If you say sometimes, does that mean that you know parts of the problem?
If so, what are they? Are you sure they’re really problems? How are these problems hurting the Church? What’s being done about it?
Click to expand...
The Church has always had “problems” - from day one. Some have been internal, some external. Some have been major and some not so much…But the Church is protected and guided. Today is no different. The best thing to do is to begin with prayer and Trust in God and in His Church.
It’s simply not enough to just be humble about something. If the Church presented a closer community, would that be a step in the right direction?
Click to expand...
Yes - it is helpful in any community to "present a closer community - greater unity.
I mean, the Catholic Church IS a community, isn’t it? It should be able to unite people, particularly Catholic people, right? Then is one of the problems a lack of social unity? Should steps be taken to resolve it?
Click to expand...
Not sure if I understand you here.
The Church’s job is not to “unite people”. The Church’s job is to be the visible body of Christ on Earth. To do this the Church presents the Truth to the world through her magisterial teachings. People who call themselves “Catholic” need to embrace that Truth and, as individuals, live it out.
Now in the same turn, sometimes also means the other way around. You must mean that you don’t know what the problem is. So, ergo, you must only be paying half attention to what goes on around the Church. Am I anywhere near the truth?
Click to expand...
Frankly - I think that if you have something to say - you should say it and not beat around the bush…

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
When you say you asked someone, do you mean like a moderator?

Possibly - in which case the moderators would step in to handle the situation.

But if what you are after is as volatile as you hint above…then what…When you “lead people on to” whatever you are getting at will there be less uproar? Or will someone else get banned for mentioning what you have not???

Do you mean “your” list of problems?
If you look around CAF you will find that different forums are likely to have different ideas of what the problems are.

The Church has always had “problems” - from day one. Some have been internal, some external. Some have been major and some not so much…But the Church is protected and guided. Today is no different. The best thing to do is to begin with prayer and Trust in God and in His Church.

Yes - it is helpful in any community to "present a closer community - greater unity.

Not sure if I understand you here.
The Church’s job is not to “unite people”. The Church’s job is to be the visible body of Christ on Earth. To do this the Church presents the Truth to the world through her magisterial teachings. People who call themselves “Catholic” need to embrace that Truth and, as individuals, live it out.

Frankly - I think that if you have something to say - you should say it and not beat around the bush…

Peace
James
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This passive-aggressive behavior is unacceptable. It’s like I’m talking to a wall.

-Karl
 
Karl, the best thing I can tell you is to lay it out on the line and stop worrying if you are going to step on anyone’s toes. We are all adults here and even though we may not agree with what you say, I really find it hard to believe that you are going to offend anyone that badly. Tell it like it is brother and maybe we will get a gist at what you’re getting at.
 
Big_Feet said:
Agreed! And I rest assured that God won’t allow the Church to go astray.
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The Bible says the gates of hell shall not prevail. I don’t think that means the
Church will never go astray. All one needs to do is look at history.
 
TrueLight said:
The Bible says the gates of hell shall not prevail. I don’t think that means the
Church will never go astray. All one needs to do is look at history.
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1st - I was not quoting or trying to quote the bible. I was stating my belief and obedience to the Church. I will follow her in all things except sin, which I am confident that she will not lead me.
2nd - understood about history, but has it not ALWAYS been ‘righted’? Every time it has varried from the straight and narrow path that God intends, it gets back on track, usually pretty quickly.
 
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