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jas84173
Guest
This just has been on my mind. If the Church says people of other beliefs can be saved, what then is the point of Reconciliation? If they don’t have to go to Confession to be saved, why do I?
If the Church says people of other faiths can be saved, what's the point of going to Confession?
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stpurl
Guest
The operative word here is ‘can’ (or ‘might be’). God is merciful to those who did not have the opportunity for the ‘norm’ of forgiving of sins on earth through sacramental confession. His mercy in this is akin to his mercy through the ‘baptism of desire’ whereby a nonbaptized non-Catholic does not have a salvific ‘water baptism’ (the normal way in which we become members of the body of Christ) but would have desired and obtained one if he or she had had the opportunity.
And that explains why you, as a practicing Catholic who has the joy and the privilege of your Faith and the knowledge and understanding and the wonderful opportunity of having your sins forgiven by the priest through God in sacramental confession, ‘should be’ going. You have the chance which others would have desired with all their hearts and souls to have on earth, had they known of it in Truth, and it is because they would have desired it that they ‘may’ be saved.
And that explains why you, as a practicing Catholic who has the joy and the privilege of your Faith and the knowledge and understanding and the wonderful opportunity of having your sins forgiven by the priest through God in sacramental confession, ‘should be’ going. You have the chance which others would have desired with all their hearts and souls to have on earth, had they known of it in Truth, and it is because they would have desired it that they ‘may’ be saved.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
I’ve talked to non-Catholics who challenge me on about the sacrament but also express a desire to talk to someone i.e., confess, and be assured they were forgiven when they asked God for forgiveness i.e., absolution. They don’t even get to the benefits sacramental grace.
I think it was in another thread that attitude is important and instead if thinking we have to go to confession, think we get to.
I think it was in another thread that attitude is important and instead if thinking we have to go to confession, think we get to.
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Le_Bonvivant
Guest
Its possible for people who honestly do their best for God and for some reason (for example born in Iran without ever learning about Christianity) do not know the truth about God. We as catholics do not have that excuse
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Brendan
Guest
It is also possible that someone who has been seriously injured can recover without having to go to a hospital, but their chances are much better if they do.
Confession is like that with serious sin.
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Vico
Guest
People are saved by grace of God. They may not be assured of salvation without baptism and maintaining a state of sanctifying grace. The Church was given the power to loose and bind sins, and exercises that through the sacrament of Confession for Catholics and others in some grave circumstances. A Catholic is not free to ignore the dogmatic teachings of the Catholic Church.
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Lovinglight
Guest
As far as i know its a matter of culpability relating to knowledge and free will. As a confirmed Catholic u arent invincibally ignorant of the Catholic Church and needing its Sacraments for salvation.
A protestant/atheist/etc who has the oppurtunity to know the Church and chooses not to…or rejects it has no salvation.
A protestant/atheist/etc who has the oppurtunity to know the Church and chooses not to…or rejects it has no salvation.
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Genesis315
Guest
“Can” does not mean “will.” We can say “will” when it comes to confession because of God’s promises. We can’t demand forgiveness on our own terms, but God may have mercy on those who are honestly mistaken and truly want to seek His forgiveness as He intends.
As I said, we know absolutely that God forgives our sins in the sacrament of penance. He has not revealed that he will do so otherwise, although the Church has inferred from the Scripture “charity covers a multitude of sins” that he may have mercy on those who repent with perfect charity (only for love of God, not fear of Hell).
As I said, we know absolutely that God forgives our sins in the sacrament of penance. He has not revealed that he will do so otherwise, although the Church has inferred from the Scripture “charity covers a multitude of sins” that he may have mercy on those who repent with perfect charity (only for love of God, not fear of Hell).
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Given that you’ve had the chance to receive God’s sacramental grace and forgiveness directly through going to Confession, why would you NOT want to do it?
Do you prefer to waffle around in uncertainty over whether or not something is sinful and whether you’re truly forgiven? I have read that some members of Protestant faiths struggle with this and it really keeps them up at night.
We, on the other hand, know we are forgiven when the priest says I absolve you…
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De_Maria
Guest
The Catholic Church Teaches that the normal means for salvation are within the Catholic Church. She doesn’t know if people outside the Church can be saved. But recognizes that God can work outside it’s boundaries.
So, even if it is theoretically possible that they could be saved, it would be much harder for them. They don’t have the benefit of the Sacraments.
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Nan1
Guest
Thank you for this informative thread.
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jas84173
Guest
What about Orthodox? Are their confessions valid?
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De_Maria
Guest
That’s what I hear. Their Sacraments are valid, therefore their Orders are valid, since Orders is one of the Sacraments.
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Genesis315
Guest
With regard to the EO Churches, it is an open question as far as I know. Vatican II specifically left it open:
N.B. Without hierarchical communion the ontologico-sacramental function [munus], which is to be distinguished from the juridico-canonical aspect, cannot be exercised. However, the Commission has decided that it should not enter into question of liceity and validity. These questions are left to theologians to discuss—specifically the question of the power exercised de facto among the separated Eastern Churches, about which there are various explanations."
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
N.B. Without hierarchical communion the ontologico-sacramental function [munus], which is to be distinguished from the juridico-canonical aspect, cannot be exercised. However, the Commission has decided that it should not enter into question of liceity and validity. These questions are left to theologians to discuss—specifically the question of the power exercised de facto among the separated Eastern Churches, about which there are various explanations."
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_...s/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
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PJM
Guest
Ahhhhh, your asking a good question but perhaps not knowing exactly what we teach on this matter: Their salvation is highly and critically conditional:
1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”
IN SUMMARY
God will, because as GOD He must pass final judgments on each Soul NOT BASED on what they choose, FOR ANY REASON, to accept, believe and live; NO final Judgment will be made based UPON WHAT GOD HAS MADE POSSIBLE for each soul to know, accept and live.
Many non-Catholics on this forum could well have much explaining to GOD about this.
AMEN
Patrick
1260 “Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery.” Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
848 “Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.”
IN SUMMARY
God will, because as GOD He must pass final judgments on each Soul NOT BASED on what they choose, FOR ANY REASON, to accept, believe and live; NO final Judgment will be made based UPON WHAT GOD HAS MADE POSSIBLE for each soul to know, accept and live.
Many non-Catholics on this forum could well have much explaining to GOD about this.
AMEN
Patrick
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Lovinglight
Guest
Are u a protestant?
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Lovinglight
Guest
Well i dont believe your interpretation of the Holy Bible. To each their own.
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Lovinglight
Guest
God Bless u!
Do u think u will ever want to be in full communion with the Church?
Why or why not?
Do u think u will ever want to be in full communion with the Church?
Why or why not?
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OsculeturMeOsculo
Guest
Because people might last minute convert to the Catholic Church through God’s grace and by a baptism of desire (when no fault of their own, the sacrament of baptism is unavailable) or water. The sacrament would wash away all their past sins. However those who are already baptized must go to confession since that is the only way to receive forgiveness for mortal sins. However only people who have not rejected or knew of the Catholic Church or were impeded by lies about the Catholic Church are able to be saved.
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AveOTheotokos
Guest
Trent Horn gives this analogy in his book Why We’re Catholic as well as in this article on Catholic Answers:
One of the beautiful tools that He has given us to help us on this journey is the ability to receive definitive absolution through the sacrament of Confession. Why would we want to ignore this and just go it alone and just hope for the best?
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Just because there may be a possibility of salvation for those outside of the Catholic Church, it doesn’t nullify the truths found within it. Jesus came, and left us a lasting “city on a hill” that guides us towards Him.
One of the beautiful tools that He has given us to help us on this journey is the ability to receive definitive absolution through the sacrament of Confession. Why would we want to ignore this and just go it alone and just hope for the best?
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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