If the Holy Spirit dwells within us than are we part of God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kingston1
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
K

kingston1

Guest
When Jesus was baptized the bible says God said “this is my son, with whom I am well pleased listen to Him.” and the Spirit descended upon Him.

Jesus said this (paraphrased): “not my will be done but the Father’s” and the the “Father and I are one.”

Before He left and ascended He said “I leave you a helper.”

This helper is the Holy Spirit and that Spirit descended upon the apostles so they were filled with the Spirit and could drive out demons, heal and speak in tongues.

Jesus’ physical body was human but He was fully God too; the apostle were like Him in that they could perform similar miracles.

We’re taught that we are sealed with the Spirit upon confirmation. Each of us who are confirmed have that Spirit and thus are “like gods” as referenced in Genesis.

If we think of ourselves as vessels which can be filled with greater degrees of Spirit than someone newly in the Spirit may have only a little seed but Jesus was filled completely and therefore He will was God’s will.

Could a mortal be like Jesus and if so are we then too like God as our will becomes God’s will? God is everything so we could be a minute, infinitesimal part of God and therefore doing His will, like God.

Can we increase or be in His will more through bearing our cross and denying ourselves daily; through Eucharistic adoration, the Sacraments, Confession, etc.? Yes, I believe we could.

I can think or envision that there could be millions maybe billions of Spirits moving about here on earth like God and if we all moved as God moves and according to His will how could His will and peace not be found here on earth?
 
First, we are Creation, God is Creator.
We are in NO WAY part of the Creator.

And on Genesis, Humans have become like God,
ONLY in the sense that we know Good & Evil.

In no way does the Bible suggest that we will become part of God or gods or anything
of the sort. Sharers/Partakers of God’s Divine Nature, maybe, but that isn’t even close.

The Holy Spirit dwells within us, yes, but that is not the same as being part of God.
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
First, we are Creation, God is Creator.
We are in NO WAY part of the Creator.

And on Genesis, Humans have become like God,
ONLY in the sense that we know Good & Evil.

In no way does the Bible suggest that we will become part of God or gods or anything
of the sort. Sharers/Partakers of God’s Divine Nature, maybe, but that isn’t even close.

The Holy Spirit dwells within us, yes, but that is not the same as being part of God.
Click to expand...
OK, fair enough. Nothing is created that is higher than God, greater than God or outside of God. The Holy Spirit is God and dwells in us, therefore a part of us is God. Agree we are not God, I may have worded poorly.

Anything we see is God as God is in everything. Therefore, we are creatures of God and part of God. We are not supreme beings, I agree, we are slaves.

“For Jesus became a slave so that man could be saved” (paraphrased from Corinthians I believe, don’t have a bible handy). “Do you when you get home feed yourselves and then your master? No, you feed the master and then yourself.” (from the Gospels) The humanness of Jesus was a slave as we are a slave but after His baptism He was filled with the Spirit. Despite our servitude, we are filled with the Spirit too. No?
 
empther said:
I am not part of the house I live in.
Click to expand...
Nothing is higher than God or started apart from God; therefore everything alive is God. No? A 2 x 4 is from a tree, the tree started because of God; the tree was alive in a sense; therefore a part of God was in the tree.

Isn’t God everything and everything God?

The 2 x 4 now no longer growing and therefore having no part of life is no longer alive.

I know you weren’t referring to a literal house in your quote…
 
empther said:
No.
Click to expand...
Care to elaborate? All creation that we know which is our universe and creation we can see and measure was from God and by what does He use to create it? His own will. Where does the material come from the original matter? It comes from God. And where did He get it? At the “star” or “nebulus” store, no from His own will and therefore from Himself, therefore, it is God.

A subset of something is not the totality of that thing. My children are part of me, my blood is part of me. Therefore, anything from me is part of me although not me. But God does not need anything outside Himself to create, He is the creation.

:confused:
 
The actual Catholic teaching is that we are called to ***share ***by knowledge and love, in God’s own life.

(Paragraph 356, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition;* CCC, 396;*
*CCC, *Glossary, Sanctifying Grace, page 898; CCC, 1730)
 
But nonetheless we are one with God through participating in His Spirit. I am not sure if you intended to argue semantics with your op, but essentially being one with God and being a part of God are the same sort of idea. We are still separate beings from God, yet we participate in His divine life through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
 
I hate to double dip, but there are a couple of other philosophical interpretations of this. We don’t know, of course, what the precise nature of God’s essence is. But, if God has and intellect and a will, and what He thinks of He creates, then we are perhaps to be considered a thought in God’s mind. Some philosophers will contend that a thought is to be considered part of the personality of a thinking thing. In this case it could be argued that we are a part of God as a result of His thinking of us and creating us.

Others will say that His creation and Himself are separate entities altogether. This would mean that we are not a part of God. Hence the Incarnation and the sending of the Spirit which would give us participation in His divine life.
 
kingston1 said:
Care to elaborate? All creation that we know which is our universe and creation we can see and measure was from God and by what does He use to create it? His own will. Where does the material come from the original matter? It comes from God. And where did He get it? At the “star” or “nebulus” store, no from His own will and therefore from Himself, therefore, it is God.

A subset of something is not the totality of that thing. My children are part of me, my blood is part of me. Therefore, anything from me is part of me although not me. But God does not need anything outside Himself to create, He is the creation.

:confused:
Click to expand...
You were so close with that analogy.

You’re right, your blood may be part of you, and your children may be from you, but neither of those ARE you. There is a real distinction between you and your blood, and you and your children. You are not your children, you are not your blood, and neither your children or your blood is you.

It’s the same thing with God and creation, there is a real distinction. Just because everything comes from God in no way makes everything God, or makes God His creation, anymore than your children coming from you makes you them.

Where you go wrong though is thinking that because God used or needed no material to create, He used part of Himself, but that’s incorrect. He parts with nothing of His own being in the act of creation. Instead, He brings brand new, distinct beings into existence from His own power. He doesn’t need or use any material to create you are correct, but it in no way follows that what He creates IS Him as you say.
 
john330 said:
But nonetheless we are one with God through participating in His Spirit. I am not sure if you intended to argue semantics with your op, but essentially being one with God and being a part of God are the same sort of idea. We are still separate beings from God, yet we participate in His divine life through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
No, I hate semantics and parsing of words. It’s the worst.

Nothing started apart from God, nothing is greater than God. There is nothing that is which is above or outside Him. We are and all living things are part of Him because He created us from Him because He is the original everything. Our sin separated us from Him literally. God did not indwell in us. The God of Israel was only met with the Israelites apart from the people in the “Holy of Holies” upon the Ark of the Covenant. When God became man, a slave, He gave us Himself as a Spirit and the Spirit is in us therefore we are part of the spirit and it is part of us and therefore we have life because we have life in us. We are born again.

God became the Eucharist which we eat. He is in us, His life becomes our cells and our being. His spirit is in us. We are “become like gods” (genesis) and we will “eat from the tree of life” (revelations). Therefore, it is our destiny to become like Him but always a servant and a subset of Him.
 
Robyn_p said:
You were so close with that analogy.

Where you go wrong though is thinking that because God used or needed no material to create, He used part of Himself, but that’s incorrect. He parts with nothing of His own being in the act of creation. Instead, He brings brand new, distinct beings into existence from His own power. He doesn’t need or use any material to create you are correct, but it in no way follows that what He creates IS Him as you say.
Click to expand...
No, there is no God + 1. God is everything. If God created a trillion more people, that is God. There is nothing outside of Him.

We are finite as flesh, therefore our flesh when divided and added to new flesh needs something outside itself to create, God does not.
 
empther said:
I am not part of the house I live in.
Click to expand...
A gear in a machine is part of the machine, though not the machine. If you pointed at a car and said “there is a car” are you pointing at the tires or the door or the engine or the bumper??? You are pointing at the car, the wheel is the car. A gear is the machine.
 
grannymh said:
The actual Catholic teaching is that we are called to ***share ***by knowledge and love, in God’s own life.

(Paragraph 356, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition;* CCC, 396;*
*CCC, *Glossary, Sanctifying Grace, page 898; CCC, 1730)
Click to expand...
Well phrased.👍
 
grannymh said:
The actual Catholic teaching is that we are called to ***share ***by knowledge and love, in God’s own life.

(Paragraph 356, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition;* CCC, 396;*
*CCC, *Glossary, Sanctifying Grace, page 898; CCC, 1730)
Click to expand...
All things outside of God are destined for eternal separation from God. Therefore, if we are outside of God we are destined for eternal separation at the end of time. This is hell.

If we are not outside of God then we are not destined for eternal separation. If not separated then we are a part of God. A part of something is that something just not all of that something only a part. We may be 1/100th(to the power of a large number) of Him but not apart from Him.
 
kingston1 said:
All things outside of God are destined for eternal separation from God. Therefore, if we are outside of God we are destined for eternal separation at the end of time. This is hell.

If we are not outside of God then we are not destined for eternal separation. If not separated then we are a part of God. A part of something is that something just not all of that something only a part. We may be 1/100th(to the power of a large number) of Him but not apart from Him.
Click to expand...
I think I probably agree with most of what you said. Spinoza’s God would have all things as a subset of Himself. I don’t think there is anything wrong with this logically. There are other interpretations, I just don’t know which one is true.
 
kingston1 said:
No, there is no God + 1. God is everything. If God created a trillion more people, that is God. There is nothing outside of Him.

We are finite as flesh, therefore our flesh when divided and added to new flesh needs something outside itself to create, God does not.
Click to expand...
I think we might be arguing about two different things and not really disagreeing. What do you mean by God is everything? If you mean everything has it’s source and being in the One True God, and He is sustaining everything by His power, and nothing can exist apart from Him than yes, I agree.

If on the other hand you mean this table that I’m sitting at is God, and the air that I’m breathing is God, and I am God, than no. That’s pantheism, and something the Church has condemned.
 
kingston1 said:
When Jesus was baptized the bible says God said “this is my son, with whom I am well pleased listen to Him.” and the Spirit descended upon Him.

Jesus said this (paraphrased): “not my will be done but the Father’s” and the the “Father and I are one.”

Before He left and ascended He said “I leave you a helper.”

This helper is the Holy Spirit and that Spirit descended upon the apostles so they were filled with the Spirit and could drive out demons, heal and speak in tongues.

Jesus’ physical body was human but He was fully God too; the apostle were like Him in that they could perform similar miracles.

We’re taught that we are sealed with the Spirit upon confirmation. Each of us who are confirmed have that Spirit and thus are “like gods” as referenced in Genesis.

If we think of ourselves as vessels which can be filled with greater degrees of Spirit than someone newly in the Spirit may have only a little seed but Jesus was filled completely and therefore He will was God’s will.

Could a mortal be like Jesus and if so are we then too like God as our will becomes God’s will? God is everything so we could be a minute, infinitesimal part of God and therefore doing His will, like God.

Can we increase or be in His will more through bearing our cross and denying ourselves daily; through Eucharistic adoration, the Sacraments, Confession, etc.? Yes, I believe we could.

I can think or envision that there could be millions maybe billions of Spirits moving about here on earth like God and if we all moved as God moves and according to His will how could His will and peace not be found here on earth?
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree with this. All of creation is a part of God in a sense: it comes from nowhere else: it’s very existence, as well as its inherent goodness, depends on Him. And humans are uniquely made in His image, to be “divinized”, as the Catechism teaches. In that way we are, at least potentially, expressions of the Divine nature.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top