If the impossible happened

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shelby_sun

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I know that many have already stated that the Church cannot, so will not change its teachings on birth control, annulments, and gay marriages, but if the impossible happened in any of these issues, what would you do?

Would you leave the Church? Would you speak out against its new teachings. Would you stay and just going on living your life under the old teachings. Would you stay and support the Church and its teachings. Again I am not advocating for change in the Church.
 
If the said impossible happened, first… I would disbelieve whoever told me. I would also disbelieve any evidence given which was not unquestionably, identifiably accurate.

Then I would react in accordance with what SNOM just said above: that the Church itself is stable, and those who contradict its infallible teachings are fallen away from the Church.
 
I wouldn’t do anything. Well, I would cease to exist, I would be annihilated, because if that were to happen, then the Church wouldn’t be indefectible, the Church wouldn’t be real, God wouldn’t keep his promises, therefore the whole human “experiment” would then not be able to have happened, therefore we would all have to retroactively not exist.

:o
 
The Church has fractured before, and an occurrence as described would fracture it again.

I would cling to the Church body that had remained stable, even if it were now a minority and were not headed in Rome. HIS body is HIS body!

ICXC NIKA
 
In this hypothetical situation the Catholic Church would have proved itself false and I would have no interest in remaining within it. However, I am confident that the Catholic faith is authentic and the Holy Spirit will prevent the Church from formally teaching error like this.

On the other hand should a situation come up, such as new policies or teachings relating to the indissolubility of marriage and conditions for receiving the Eucharist, in which older Church doctrines seem to be violated I would submit to the authority of the Church in interpreting its own doctrines, and seek better understanding of the situation from sources like Catholic Answers.

A skeptic might call this attitude double-think, and that is a legitimate concern. I do not want to engage in the kind of “faith” by which a person lies to himself about what he believes, intellectually adhering to an idea he knows deep down is false. That is not the Christian idea of faith. Ultimately what we need a simple kind of trust that the Church will not in fact doctrinally derail itself, and a confidence that if it looks for a moment to have done so we just need to dig deeper into the matter until we understand.
 
If this were to happen (although I don’t know why annulments are included in this list), and the Church definitely issued a change in teaching (unmistakable, evident, such as through bulls, encyclicals, definitions, etc.), then it would be proof that the Church was not infallible to begin with and is not of God. While I would retain a belief in God, that would only be because his existence is knowable by pure reason. But outside of things knowable by reason and regulated by public order, I would cease believing because there is no infallible pillar of faith and morals we can turn to.

My life would therefore be governed only by what I want and see fit, and what is not contrary to public order (i.e. I will do anything I want for as long as no one gets hurt). But things like public worship, sexual morality, etc. would have no bearing on my life anymore.

But I know that thanks be to God, this will not happen and by his grace, will not turn into that terrible person I just described.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
In this hypothetical situation the Catholic Church would have proved itself false and I would have no interest in remaining within it. However, I am confident that the Catholic faith is authentic and the Holy Spirit will prevent the Church from formally teaching error like this.

On the other hand should a situation come up, such as new policies or teachings relating to the indissolubility of marriage and conditions for receiving the Eucharist, in which older Church doctrines seem to be violated I would submit to the authority of the Church in interpreting its own doctrines, and seek better understanding of the situation from sources like Catholic Answers.

A skeptic might call this attitude double-think, and that is a legitimate concern. I do not want to engage in the kind of “faith” by which a person lies to himself about what he believes, intellectually adhering to an idea he knows deep down is false. That is not the Christian idea of faith. Ultimately what we need a simple kind of trust that the Church will not in fact doctrinally derail itself, and a confidence that if it looks for a moment to have done so we just need to dig deeper into the matter until we understand.
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That was a very good answer, as you seem to understand that I truly mean this to be a very hypothetical situation. You said you would have no interest in remaining in the Church, but where would you go.
 
shelby_sun said:
That was a very good answer, as you seem to understand that I truly mean this to be a very hypothetical situation. You said you would have no interest in remaining in the Church, but where would you go.
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Really I’m quite confident in my Catholic faith, so to ask where I would go if I lost my faith is a tough one, like one of those gross-out “would you rather… or…” things. I suppose the two main options that I could at all see myself going for would be re-examining the claims of the Orthodox Church or apostatizing from Christianity entirely and adopting a kind of natural theism, maybe a practical deism.
 
I subscribe to the belief that in the End Times, most of the Church, possibly including the Pope, will become apostate, while a remnant maintains the faith. If I’m still around, I pray that I will be part of the remnant.
 
shelby_sun said:
I know that many have already stated that the Church cannot, so will not change its teachings on birth control, annulments, and gay marriages, but if the impossible happened in any of these issues, what would you do?

Would you leave the Church? Would you speak out against its new teachings. Would you stay and just going on living your life under the old teachings. Would you stay and support the Church and its teachings. Again I am not advocating for change in the Church.
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Meaningless question because these teachings will never change. They cannot. It IS impossible.
 
thistle said:
Meaningless question because these teachings will never change. They cannot. It IS impossible.
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Yes those are the same words spoken by many before Vatican I and II. Of course, different topics, but people believed the same thing. If it meaning less to you, you don’t need to respond. There are many meaningless questions on this site aren’t there.
 
shelby_sun said:
Yes those are the same words spoken by many before Vatican I and II. Of course, different topics, but people believed the same thing. If it meaning less to you, you don’t need to respond. There are many meaningless questions on this site aren’t there.
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I don’t understand. What unchangeable teachings changed after Vatican I or II?
 
If it happened, I would remain faithful. I converted a few years ago, because I believe in objective truth. So, during my conversion, I asked myself this very question. If the leaders of the Church changed doctrine to suit the sentiments of the modern age, then I would know the End is truly nigh, and I would live a life of penance, waiting for Christ to return in glory, enduring whatever tribulation or chastisement that was to come first. Nothing else would matter to me at that point except to be faithful to the objective truth that I found in the teachings of the Church at my conversion. I would view the leaders as apostates, however. Many of the saints have said that a worldwide apostasy will happen, all the way up to the Pope. So many Catholics are already anticipating that as a possibility in the modern world.
 
Many saints have said that such a thing may happen in the last days immediately preceding Christ’s return, though. Any faithful Catholic who acknowledges that worldwide apostasy is possible but intends to remain faithful and endure such trials and live a life of penance is NOT the cause of a schism, but is merely a witness.
 
It is impossible for the Church to contradict Herself in any substantial way and still remain the infallible Church. For instance the Church cannot in one age say that Communicatio in sacris (that is taking active participation in worship with non-Catholics) is a mortal sin against Divine Law and the 1st Commandment of God and then in another age say that it is allowable and even desirable and that it is no sin at all. That would be an absurdity; it would be equivalent to saying that 2+2=4 on Monday, but equals 5 on Friday.

So if something of this nature ever occurred or if the Church allowed public adulterers to receive the Holy Eucharist as you are talking about, then I think the authority of those promulgating those contradictions would have to be questioned.

Thank God nothing like that has ever happened yet.
 
I would obey the Pope. It is not up to me to decide whether or not the Church is right or wrong on any given subject. My place is to obey those in authority over me. Obedience is the will of God.
 
I would continue to seek union with God inspired by Benedictine monastic tradition as I do now. Perhaps I would view it as God directing us towards a more spiritual and less doctrinal approach to God.

I wouldn’t become an atheist and would still believe in the New Covenant, but perhaps a bit more suspicious of mankind’s interpretation of it. I would seek to understand what God asks of us by praying the Divine Office and lectio divina. Much as I do now really.
 
Of the three things you mention, only one carries a dogmatic weight and that is gay marriage. The matter for a Catholic marriage is a man and a woman and you cant alter a sacrament. Annulments (are supposed to) deal with marriage which was, through some defect, not properly “confected”. The church has already modified the subjective criteria by which it adjudicates the merits of a petition for annulment. Birth Control, as treated by the encyclical of Pope Paul VI, can be interpreted and applied in a vast range of options, especially as relates to the priest’s interpretation of hardship.

You cant leave the church - the Mystical Body, the Bride of Christ for perceived errors by the clergy or hierarchy.
 
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