If the meaning of the Bible is so clear...

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Prodigal_Son1 said:
tweetymom, you believe in private interpretation of scriptures, with Holy Spirit guidance, please share your interpretation of the scripture below. One is from the Douay-Rheims and the other is a King James Version.

**Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned and avoid them.

(KJVA) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.**
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The way I believe is to avoid you.
 
Bill_Pick said:
and so easily interpreted–and the Holy Spirt leads every Christian to interpret if for themselves,then why are there over 32,000 Prostestants denominations, and millions of indivodual Prostestants,all interpreting the Bible differently and Jesus started one Church.
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Hi Bill,
This, from second generation Lutheran reformer, Martin Chemnitz:
This is also certain, that no one should rely on his own wisdom in the interpretation of the Scripture, not even in the clear passages… We also gratefully and reverently use the labors of the fathers who by their commentaries have profitably clarified many passages of the Scripture. And we confess that we are greatly confirmed by the testimonies of the ancient church in the true and sound understanding of the Scripture. Nor do we approve of it if someone invents for himself a meaning which conflicts with all antiquity, and for which there are clearly no testimonies of the church.
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Jon
 
tweetymom said:
Because you have caused many divisions with other people because they don’t agree with you. I and others simply do not think the CC is the only way.
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So, the many ways are not ‘divisions’? The many different doctrines, slight to great, are not divisions? So, saying that you are a part of a Church, but do not agree with it’s teachings, is not divisions?

In my honest opinion, it’s backwards. I say we are all connected through our belief in Christ and try to explain that the Church needs to be one. I do not challenge the Church’s teachings every opportunity I can to keep others from trying to understand the Church, or even become a part of the Church.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
So, the many ways are not ‘divisions’? The many different doctrines, slight to great, are not divisions? So, saying that you are a part of a Church, but do not agree with it’s teachings, is not divisions?

In my honest opinion, it’s backwards. I say we are all connected through our belief in Christ and try to explain that the Church needs to be one. I do not challenge the Church’s teachings every opportunity I can to keep others from trying to understand the Church, or even become a part of the Church.
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Just like you I am only stating what I believe. We are able to do that right. If anyone wants to become a Catholic, I have nothing but admiration for them, if you are happy and pleased I am happy for you.

If you think it is backwards, you must be right cause you always think you are, so be it.
 
tweetymom said:
If you think it is backwards, you must be right cause you always think you are, so be it.
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Pot meet kettle…how many times have you admitted a mistake?

Mar 12:36 For David himself saith by the Holy Ghost: The Lord said to my Lord: Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Ok, look at secular history and tell me which Churches have existed over the last 2000 years, trim it down to the first 500 years and tell me which ones you are willing to affliate yourself with?
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In John chapter 8:
Arguing WITH Jesus that they are right with God because they could trace their affiliation back to Abraham!

We are Abraham’s descendants"
“Abraham is our father,”
Abraham this and Abraham that…
We are RIGHT with God because of our heritage.
We are RIGHT with God because of group membership.

FYI:
“All of Israel is not Israel”

The church (group of people) in the New Testament shows little resemblance to the Catholic Church today.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Pot meet kettle…how many times have you admitted a mistake?

Mar 12:36 For David himself saith by the Holy Ghost: The Lord said to my Lord: Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool.
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Nice to know ya pot, I have admittede more times that you are old that I made a mistake. And I did about that one too and thank you oh Mr. perfect
 
FabiusMaximus said:
If we’re going to have a serious discussion, can we at least drop the 33,000 Protestant denomination myth that Tim Staples has been talking about? It’s nonsense.

The study that he was referring to spoke of 33,000 Christian denominations. This is significant because some 600 of them were within the Catholic and Orthodox Churches alone. The vast majority of the rest were Restorationist sects, not Protestant.

So your argument is against you.

That being said, I don’t believe in the nonsense that “Scripture interprets Scripture.” There is of course one way to interpret Scripture, and we must have Tradition.
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Golly Gee, I thought the last count was 50.000:p:rolleyes::cool:Carlan

c
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Ok, look at secular history and tell me which Churches have existed over the last 2000 years, trim it down to the first 500 years and tell me which ones you are willing to affliate yourself with? It doesn’t take Church history, even though the writings of the early Church fathers taught a doctrine much closer to the Catholic Church than any other Church out there, with the exception of maybe the Orthodox.

And you disagree based on what? Because you don’t agree with the interpretation, plus tradition, the teaching comes from?
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What part of Tradition is it that you can do not agree with, and remember Jesus does not teach any thing that is not the truth
 
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RedBert:
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In John chapter 8:
Arguing WITH Jesus that they are right with God because they could trace their affiliation back to Abraham!

We are Abraham’s descendants"
“Abraham is our father,”
Abraham this and Abraham that…
We are RIGHT with God because of our heritage.
We are RIGHT with God because of group membership.

FYI:
“All of Israel is not Israel”

The church (group of people) in the New Testament shows little resemblance to the Catholic Church today.

Then please share with us which denomination it does resemble today? Christ built a Church and I didn’t realize that we were at liberty to make changes to avoid a lineage. :confused:
 
Bill_Pick said:
What part of Tradition is it that you can do not agree with, and remember Jesus does not teach any thing that is not the truth
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I think you misquoted the wrong person Bill. I accept we are to rely on the Church for interpretations that they do provide and interpret the rest in light of the Traditions of the Church.
 
and back to the OP
Bill_Pick said:
and so easily interpreted–and the Holy Spirt leads every Christian to interpret if for themselves,then why are there over 32,000 Prostestants denominations, and millions of indivodual Prostestants,all interpreting the Bible differently and Jesus started one Church.
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Point 1

I’ve looked into where that number is coming from:
for ex:
"Methodists (23 million members, 123 denominations), "

but now I see how they are counting denominations

The United Methodist in America , that’s 1

Methodist Church of Southern Africa that’s another one
Igreja Metodista Unida in Mozambique. is another one
United Methodist Church in the Philippines in another one
Methodist Church in Ireland is another one

etc…etc…

Point 2

they are counting non denominations as denominations

Words have meanings:
Is a non-binding legal document binding?
Is a non- resident of New York a resident of New York?
Is a non-fat yogurt a yogurt with fat?
Is a non- denominational church a denomination?

Denomination defined:
thefreedictionary.com/denomination

“A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.”

“a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith”

By definition, a “denomination” can NOT be a single church.

By definition a non- denominational church can NOT be a denomination

I would suspect that over 95% of ALL Protestants are affiliated with the top 20 denominations , over 99% with the top 30.

That’s a big difference from the 30,000 being quoted.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_(Protestant

21 million just in the top 7 denominations

Point #3
over 70% percent of the people in the world (that about 5 billion people) live in countries where there is no religious freedom. the government tells you what to believe.

Most of us posting on these boards live in a country where you can become a Minister by answering an ad from the back of a Rolling Stone magazine.

I thank God for the freedom I have in my country.
But, like any freedom or liberty, it can be abused.
The 30,000 has less to do with the Protestant Reformation and more to do with the freedoms (and tax laws)in a country.

Or do you want the “State” to only give their religious “stamp of approval” to the selected few?

Do you think one guy declaring that his trailer is the Church of Harley- riding Eggplant- farmers of Vineland, New Jersey should really count as a denomination?

so please stop the nonsense of saying there are 33000+ Protestant denominations.

Remember :
21 million just in the top 7 denominations
 
RedBert said:
the wealth, the land owning, the rules, the hierarchy, etc

didn’t see alot of that in the early church.
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You realize the early Church was persecuted for 400 years, under the penalty of death? Don’t you think it limited what they were allowed to own or even where they were allowed to meet?
 
RedBert said:
and back to the OP

Point 1

I’ve looked into where that number is coming from:
for ex:
"Methodists (23 million members, 123 denominations), "

but now I see how they are counting denominations

The United Methodist in America , that’s 1

Methodist Church of Southern Africa that’s another one
Igreja Metodista Unida in Mozambique. is another one
United Methodist Church in the Philippines in another one
Methodist Church in Ireland is another one

etc…etc…

Point 2

they are counting non denominations as denominations

Words have meanings:
Is a non-binding legal document binding?
Is a non- resident of New York a resident of New York?
Is a non-fat yogurt a yogurt with fat?
Is a non- denominational church a denomination?

Denomination defined:
thefreedictionary.com/denomination

“A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.”

“a group of religious congregations having its own organization and a distinctive faith”

By definition, a “denomination” can NOT be a single church.

By definition a non- denominational church can NOT be a denomination

I would suspect that over 95% of ALL Protestants are affiliated with the top 20 denominations , over 99% with the top 30.

That’s a big difference from the 30,000 being quoted.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainline_(Protestant

21 million just in the top 7 denominations

Point #3
over 70% percent of the people in the world (that about 5 billion people) live in countries where there is no religious freedom. the government tells you what to believe.

Most of us posting on these boards live in a country where you can become a Minister by answering an ad from the back of a Rolling Stone magazine.

I thank God for the freedom I have in my country.
But, like any freedom or liberty, it can be abused.
The 30,000 has less to do with the Protestant Reformation and more to do with the freedoms (and tax laws)in a country.

Or do you want the “State” to only give their religious “stamp of approval” to the selected few?

Do you think one guy declaring that his trailer is the Church of Harley- riding Eggplant- farmers of Vineland, New Jersey should really count as a denomination?

so please stop the nonsense of saying there are 33000+ Protestant denominations.

Remember :
21 million just in the top 7 denominations
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It’s a short thread Red, please read through.

What is an acceptable number of different denominations, with slight to great differences in doctrines? Scriptures plainly tells us to be of the same mind and judgment. Scriptures tell us the body of Christ cannot be divided.

The majority of the New Testament is letters. Please provide demonstrations of ‘differences’ being taught or tolerated.
 
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