If the solitary sin is a sin because of selfishness

[GloriousOrder]

Friends ,

I’m not in a very good mood. Every time I’ve gone to confession the last 3-4 times, it’s been for the same sin. Oddly enough, this “recurs” every two weeks or three weeks almost exactly. Satan suggests I do it on Friday most often, almost as an insult to our Lord’s passion. I’m still not even convinced, intellectually, that it’s a grave sin or a death-dealing act… but I have enough sorrow and worry over my conscience to go to confession as soon as I am able, each time. It’s bothering me, because every time I do it I become more conflicted and unsure about it. At one point it seems totally harmless, and at another it seems like the most terrible and evil affront to Divine love in history.

Now, when I think about it, the Church’s arguments against masturbation are rather lame. It is said to be a sin of grave nature precisely because of the selfishness. My best friend told me that it’s the result of an intense inward focus, putting the self at the center of the world and acting out based on that disordered image. Surely, though, this can be said of devouring a piece of superfluous chocolate, smoking a cigarette, listening to a glorious Beethoven symphony, or pretty much anything pleasurable when done alone. Why is this the sole reason why are given for the disorder of masturbation? By this logic, we ought not to do anything or enjoy anything, especially when we’re alone.

I’m not convinced. Please don’t quote the Catechism over and over again, because I’ve read the passage a million times and am sick to death of it. Also, please don’t say “because the Church says so that’s why”, as it’s very lame. The same Church which many of us follow blindly advocates reasonable faith and logical thought. Don’t give in to weakness… but please help with debates, arguments, ideas, anything! I do need help, brothers and sisters!

 

[Cominghome89]

The gravity of masturbation comes from the beauty and importance of the act it distorts, I would say.

Listening to the Beethoven symphony may be a bit selfish if you are attached to listening to the music and avoiding your responsibilities to love, pray, etc. But listening to music is itself the harmless enjoyment of beauty. Eating too much chocolate may be excessive, but you are still enjoying a naturally good thing.

Sex is one of the most beautiful gifts God has given to us. It is an act of love so profound that it binds the two so they literally become one. The love is such a reflection of God’s love that it is life-giving. The two purposes of sex: procreation and union. Masturbation is such an offense against the goodness of sex, because it violates both. No permanent union is established with a spouse: there is no self-giving at all. And obviously, it is not procreative.

What I would focus on is not “it’s the worst sin in the world” because, while it is serious, it is something that both our sexualized society and the young body make very difficult to fight. But do keep up the fight. Pray, give this struggle to God, but don’t stress this too much. The temptations are a cross to carry. Every time you fight them, consider it a success, and you will receive grace.

May God bless you in the struggle. Trust me, the battle to be chaste is one that God will help you win over time. It doesn’t happen overnight, but the graces are tremendous.

In the love of Christ and Mary,
Frank

 

[Anthony_V]

Friends ,

I’m not in a very good mood. Every time I’ve gone to confession the last 3-4 times, it’s been for the same sin. Oddly enough, this “recurs” every two weeks or three weeks almost exactly. Satan suggests I do it on Friday most often, almost as an insult to our Lord’s passion. I’m still not even convinced, intellectually, that it’s a grave sin or a death-dealing act… but I have enough sorrow and worry over my conscience to go to confession as soon as I am able, each time. It’s bothering me, because every time I do it I become more conflicted and unsure about it. At one point it seems totally harmless, and at another it seems like the most terrible and evil affront to Divine love in history.

Now, when I think about it, the Church’s arguments against masturbation are rather lame. It is said to be a sin of grave nature precisely because of the selfishness. My best friend told me that it’s the result of an intense inward focus, putting the self at the center of the world and acting out based on that disordered image. Surely, though, this can be said of devouring a piece of superfluous chocolate, smoking a cigarette, listening to a glorious Beethoven symphony, or pretty much anything pleasurable when done alone. Why is this the sole reason why are given for the disorder of masturbation? By this logic, we ought not to do anything or enjoy anything, especially when we’re alone.

I’m not convinced. Please don’t quote the Catechism over and over again, because I’ve read the passage a million times and am sick to death of it. Also, please don’t say “because the Church says so that’s why”, as it’s very lame. The same Church which many of us follow blindly advocates reasonable faith and logical thought. Don’t give in to weakness… but please help with debates, arguments, ideas, anything! I do need help, brothers and sisters!

The very PURPOSE of sexuality is to give yourself completely. That’s why sex is between two people. Not three, not four, not one; Just two. To have one single person, looking them in the eyes and say, “I am giving myself to you completely. I am pouring out my love for you in this way, and I am reinforcing my love for God through you. Our love mirrors the love between God and his people. He loves us each and every one as if there is one of us. You are a gift to me.”
Second off, I want you to think of your priest, or another celibate person you admire (Pope John Paul II maybe?). They are living proof that you do not need a sexual drive to be happy! They are not extraordinary holy people, they’re ordinary people just like you that have been given an extraordinary job.
Thirdly, from personal experience I avoid by asking God’s will be done, not mine; I offer my sexuality up to God as a gift since I’m too weak to handle it.
And lastly, masturbation is not going to make you free. It will not make you a stronger person. It will not make you more satisfied with life. Do you know why? Because what seems like an opportunity to do what you want is you chaining yourself down. You are saying “no” to freedom because you want to do what you want (which is evidently how to be free). This may not entail an addiction, but if you listened to nothing of what I said above, hear this an all that it applies to you:

Whether a bird is attached to the ground by a chain, or whether the bird is attached to the ground by a small rope, the bird cannot be free and will not fly.
Likewise, whether we are attached to sin by an addiction, or whether we are attached to sin by a rare occurrence, we will not be free and will not be able to “fly” to up to God’s expectations for us unless we let God “cut” that rope.

May our God bless you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.


Do not give up! You are part of the Church MILITANT! :knight1:

 

[karebear92]

The sexual act is a gift in which God prescribed its use: unitive and procreative. Masturbation is directly going against what God prescribed. God never said how chocolate was to be consumed and to what amount. He gave us chocolate or food for nourishment, and eating it is still provides nourishment. Same for listening to music. Music is a natural thing, and God never said that we must listen to music together. From a different perspective, eating too much chocolate or listening to too much music is like a married couple performing the marital act more than society views as normal. It does not make it a sin because they are performing the marital act too much because they are using it for its intended purpose. God never told us to listen to music together, eat every morsel of food together, but he did say that sexual acts were to be performed only by husband in wife in a unitive and procreative manner. Also, if one were to only listen to music and is not performing their job, schoolwork, or attending mass, it does become sinful. It is when we abuse the gifts God gave us that they become sinful.

That is just my take on it.

God Bless!

 

[creationlover]

It is also considered grave because of the damage it does to the person.

It will seriously distort one’s view of the opposite sex, feed an addiction that takes years to break (I have witnessed many men well into their 60s and beyond struggle with this issue) and because of the intense focus on self, feed into the worst sin of all, which is pride. The solitary habit of masturbation can take the purest mind and lead it into an overall attitude of selfishness in many other areas, include work, church etc. The selfish attitude fed by the habit of masturbation could potentially be noticed by others, although they may not know why the person seems so self focused and arrogant. Of course, all of this depends on the unique individuality of the person and how sin works itself out in that person, but all sin has deadly fruit which will have a deleterious and damaging effect on all relationships.

It can wreck a marriage, and if the person engaging in it is single, may set their future marriage up for serious problems in the area of sexual intimacy. if the person engaging in it is celibate, it WILL negatively affect their on their relationships.

It is a killer sin. Don’t let it fool you; sin does have a blinding effect.

 

[wynnejj]

I’m still not even convinced, intellectually, that it’s a grave sin or a death-dealing act… but I have enough sorrow and worry over my conscience to go to confession as soon as I am able, each time.

As a celibate bachelor of 60 years, I sure can relate to this statement.

This letter, that I wrote to my nephews & nieces who were considering pre-marital cohabitation and contraception, represents my intellectual understanding of the mastery of the Spirit over Flesh…

Dear Nephew & Nieces,

Young adults today have been taught more than I ever learned about the birds & bees. With this knowledge and the way most of society views morality, it is often very hard to reconcile the Catholic Church’s strict rules. These rules seem to be a throwback to ancient times. Well, some of the rules can only be understood by going back to the most ancient of times in the Old Testament - the Garden of Eden with Adam & Eve.

This letter is a discussion of my understanding of the sex taboos of the Church. When God made Adam & Eve, he placed the forbidden tree with the forbidden fruit right in the middle of the Garden of Eden. It was like putting a Christmas tree right in the middle of the playroom with all its glittering presents - with a sign that says “Don’t open until Christmas”. They failed the test and mankind was exiled and quarantined to Earth from Paradise with the ultimate virus of “original sin” which causes us all to be born with a variety of birth defects - physically, mentally and morally. We are not born into this world the way God originally made us.

Now we have been given the same “Garden of Eden” test again. The sign says, “Do not use your reproductive tools for anything except what they were designed - that is, the procreation of children - and, don’t do so until you have made your marriage vows before God & witnesses. All else, gravely offends God.”. For healthy loving couples contemplating a life together, this puts a taboo on contraception and cohabitation.

Often these sex taboos appear unnatural. That is, one can’t help but say “Lord, you made me this way. You designed me with an animal nature and biological imperatives and drives that I never requested. Why didn’t you design me with a kill switch for my sex drive as well? Then I could be as pure & chaste as you demand and get on with the higher aspirations in life. As it stands, it seems that you programmed me one way, and command me not to behave naturally.”. Could it be that these sex taboos are simply arbitrary tests from God that require obedience without understanding?

God made us with Flesh and Spirit - with an animal and a spiritual nature. We are given free will and reason for the purpose of practicing the acceptance of God’s will over our animal nature. We are offered an invitation to become true children of God and live with Him eternally in heaven. You have the right to choose to be or not to be born again into life eternal. The invitation comes with a price of admission that requires the practice of self-mastery over our animal natures, the mastery of the Spirit over Flesh. By subordinating our animal nature, we concretely profess our supreme faith, belief, trust & love of the hidden God before all others, including ourselves & family & friends. This is the 1st commandment - to love God with our whole being above all others. We do this by obeying His Commands (“If you love Me, you will keep my commandments!”), even if their reasons may not be entirely understood, just as a child does not always understand. We do this in the same spirit as in the Garden of Eden when God placed that one arbitrary taboo right in the middle of Paradise as a symbol of our allegiance and love for God over ourselves & others.

Are we made by God intentionally so that overcoming our natural instincts will require effort? Yes.

Will we fail? Quite likely at times as we turn off temporarily or question constantly our belief in Jesus as Lord.

Will we be forgiven if we confess our sins and make a firm purpose of amendment? You bet, but it takes a conversion of heart which becomes harder and harder as we cultivate the habit of justifying and rationalizing our offenses against God’s Law.

Should we always keep trying? You better or else. We have the right to choose, but there are consequences.

Are we just being fools if Jesus is NOT Lord? Now there’s the leap of faith.

Are you willing to be a fool for Christ?
Let’s hope that your answer is a resounding “Yes, I believe and place my trust in You, Lord!”.

God Bless,
Your Uncle

P.S. Let me recommend to you the Saint Joseph Promise. If you promise to keep yourself chaste before marriage to Saint Joseph, you can be assured that he will intercede for you before his foster son, Jesus, to ensure that you are blessed with a happy marriage.

 

[sw85]

Now, when I think about it, the Church’s arguments against masturbation are rather lame. It is said to be a sin of grave nature precisely because of the selfishness. My best friend told me that it’s the result of an intense inward focus, putting the self at the center of the world and acting out based on that disordered image. Surely, though, this can be said of devouring a piece of superfluous chocolate, smoking a cigarette, listening to a glorious Beethoven symphony, or pretty much anything pleasurable when done alone. Why is this the sole reason why are given for the disorder of masturbation? By this logic, we ought not to do anything or enjoy anything, especially when we’re alone.

That cannot be said of eating chocolate, smoking cigarette, or listening to music. These things are intended to be done alone (well, at least the first two things – more than one person cannot eat the same bit of chocolate or smoke the same cigarette). By contrast, the sexual act is *intrinsically *unitive.

The prohibition on masturbation stems from natural law, which in terms stems from an understanding of the ends which things serve. You have eyes to see, ears to hear, and reason to know truth. Likewise, the human sexual configuration arises from procreation and thus, by definition, is other-centered.

To masturbate is to abuse the human sexual configuration by using it in a fashion contrary to its purpose. It closes the sexual act to the gift of live. And moreover, by elevating the pleasurable sensations you give yourself over those you give to another, you treat your own body as a means to an end, rather than an end in itself.

 

[sw85]

Friends ,

I’m not in a very good mood. Every time I’ve gone to confession the last 3-4 times, it’s been for the same sin. Oddly enough, this “recurs” every two weeks or three weeks almost exactly. Satan suggests I do it on Friday most often, almost as an insult to our Lord’s passion. I’m still not even convinced, intellectually, that it’s a grave sin or a death-dealing act… but I have enough sorrow and worry over my conscience to go to confession as soon as I am able, each time. It’s bothering me, because every time I do it I become more conflicted and unsure about it. At one point it seems totally harmless, and at another it seems like the most terrible and evil affront to Divine love in history.

Now, when I think about it, the Church’s arguments against masturbation are rather lame. It is said to be a sin of grave nature precisely because of the selfishness. My best friend told me that it’s the result of an intense inward focus, putting the self at the center of the world and acting out based on that disordered image. Surely, though, this can be said of devouring a piece of superfluous chocolate, smoking a cigarette, listening to a glorious Beethoven symphony, or pretty much anything pleasurable when done alone. Why is this the sole reason why are given for the disorder of masturbation? By this logic, we ought not to do anything or enjoy anything, especially when we’re alone.

I’m not convinced. Please don’t quote the Catechism over and over again, because I’ve read the passage a million times and am sick to death of it. Also, please don’t say “because the Church says so that’s why”, as it’s very lame. The same Church which many of us follow blindly advocates reasonable faith and logical thought. Don’t give in to weakness… but please help with debates, arguments, ideas, anything! I do need help, brothers and sisters!

And, of course, good luck in your effort to overcome this obstacle! I am working on it myself, having only recently found faith in the Church. It is challenging to be sure, but I’m told by those who are knowledgeable that it gets much easier with time. Just as you habituated your body to crave it, you can habituate yourself not to expect it, too.