If there are liturgical abuses at your parish are you bound, knowing it's wrong, to change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jessie
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Jessie said:
The biggest problem for me, at communion, people take the consecrated host then wander over to the chalice and dip into the precious blood, usually dripping all over,
Everyone being requested to review the Doxology (through Him, with Him, in Him…)
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Intinction without the permission of the Bishop and by the faithful instead of the Priest is something to be brought to the Diocese Office of Liturgy ASAP.

The Doxology recitation, that would not be the top of my list, but I would also put that in the hands of the Diocese for review.

These are things you do not just ignore and go to another parish.

The rest of your items could be personal preference, who goes to Communion is a pastoral matter, so, stick to the intinction and Doxology.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Priest is something to be brought to the Diocese Office of Liturgy ASAP.
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The “diocesan liturgy office” has zero authority over a priest, and moreover the priests in question are Jesuits, so the diocesan bishop isn’t over them either.
 
An order operates in the Diocese with the permission of the Ordinary.

I would speak to the Diocese, as they can then go peer to peer with an order.
 
Yikes, those are all major abuses; pretty much none of those are a minor issue (I can’t form an opinion on the TV recommendation).

To answer your question, I don’t think the congregation is sinning by attending Mass there. I think as Catholics we have the right to go to any Mass given by any Catholic priest with proper faculties anywhere in the world.

Rather the congregation is being sinned against by the priest. When we go to Mass, we have the right to a properly celebrated liturgy free from abuses. These are seriously damaging to the congregation; they are victims.
 
You say there us no sin involved. If I am aware that there is a very stringent rule in the GIRM being violated, having to do no less with his our Blessed Lord is treated, how can it not be sinful for me to participate in that part of the liturgy? Your stance makes no sense to me.
 
1ke said:
and moreover the priests in question are Jesuits, so the diocesan bishop isn’t over them either.
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From what we know with the OP description, this does not seem true. If the Bishop assigns a religious priest to be pastor or administrator (which takes the agreement if the priest’s superior) of a parish, he most certainly has authority over them.
 
No, you are not over-reacting. But I see in a later post that the parish is led by the Jesuits. I groan to hear that. The Jesuit Order is very large, composed of members of an incredibly (literally unbelievably) “diverse” range of theological perspectives. I have known some very orthodox Jesuits - and some who brought anguish to me to be in ear-shot range of them. You would need to communicate your experience to the head of the Order - although the diocesan Bishop still ought to be contacted, but I’d expect he would refer you to the Jesuit head - and I doubt, if you contacted both men, that anything would change.

Also, I would advise you to be sure in conscience that you want - and ought - to do this. If you are morally certain that these practices are truly abusive to the holy Mass, then you can be strong in the conflict that you are possibly (probably) inciting. I’ll pray for you. It can be very discouraging not to be taken seriously, when you believe that the matter is indeed a serious one - hence, “be strong.” “Be not afraid!”
 
Again, assuming this is a parish, and is run by Jesuits, the Diocese is still the place to contact. Parishioners of parishes which have been entrusted to a religious institute do not have to deal with the religious order on things such as this. The local ordinary does not give up ultimate authority over the parish because there is a religious person who is the pastor. Note: if the parish has been entrusted to a religious order, it may well be that the religious order can decide who is to be the pastor, but the pastor still has to answer to the Bishop when he is acting in that role.
 
tafan2 said:
The GIRM is very precise of how intiction is to be done.
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Are you quoting the German Bishop’s GIRM? Or maybe this circumstance falls under the authority of the Jesuit superiors? IDK. Do you know?

Do the German Bishops have adaptations to their GIRM which allow it. Do the Jesuits in the jurisdiction have an indult for it? Until you know these things, how can you say it’s wrong?
 
No I am not quoting the GIRM of Germany. Modifications to the GIRM made by Bishops Conferences can only be on specific issues, spelled out in the GIRM, that are delicated to them, eg posture. I am almost positive this would not be included, but if I am wrong, feel free to correct me.
 
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