If there is no set authority?

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I’m curious, Brian. . .exactly what Protestant church looks to you “like the way the NT described it?” and how does the Catholic Church “differ”? From my perspective, the Catholic Church looks EXACTLY the way Jesus’s church was supposed to be, supported by scripture from the NT AND the OT as well. . .
 
Well Tantum I figured that would be asked and I will comply…going to take awhile …long while. I do not advocate denominationalism…I will get started after I get done watching Jesus Christ Superstar…great music 👍
 
Brian, thank you for your honest answer. There, I think, lies the heart of the problem. If the motivation to accept a One True Church isn’t there, then it is easy to be comforted by a form of Christianity that seemingly best fits a person’s own style, or helps them become more Chrits centered.
Let me take this one step further. If you had been born in the Middle Ages well before Martin Luther even existed, and you looked around you and saw that all Christians were the same imperfect Catholics you see today, with the same structures and customs that come with being the oldest and largest institution on earth would you reject Christianity? I doubt it.
I guess what I am asking is if you look at Catholicism and reject all hope that Jesus founded one True Church because of that Church’s current state, then what if all of Christianity seemingly was in that state? What if you had no other Church or faith community to turn to as you do today?
I think the answer is that you would continue to be Christian, and you would use the power of the Holy Spirit to help the Church from within. So the hope we hold is not that the Catholic Church will be perfect by our standards, but that its faith will be perfect and it can make us perfect.
Belief is always accompanied by hope. Which one comes first is hard to discern. It is hope that Jesus is more powerful than evil that gets us through rough times. It is hope that makes us read about the Church, and the Saints, and miracles, and the Bible.
If we refused to hope (which is a selfish thing to do, because we bring down others too) then we would never look for evidence in our lives and the history of men for God. So you are hoping that Jesus did not mean the Catholic Church when He said he would build His Church on Peter. This is still a valid hope, only because you are Christian. You still are hoping to find Christ just in a different place because you don’t like what you see when you look at Catholicism.
But to have perfect hope, a hope that can change Catholicism into something beautiful in your life, you must redirect that hope towards the Church of the Apostles, though she looks beaten and battered. You will find that like an old trusty ship she is still as seaworthy as she was when the Apostles took her out in that stormy, unchartered sea 2006 years ago. If you redirect your hope, then you will find all your questions answered, and you will meet the kind of Catholics your heart desires.
 
Corpus Cristi:
Besides, if there’s no set authority, then everybody’s wrong because the Catholic Church is the one who took the books of the Bible and slapped the thing together. (Minus 7 books from the OT), you guys only have what we put there.
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That is true only if one starts by accepting that the CC is the Church founded by Christ, though - so the argument ends up going in a circle.​

There is no reason whatever - apart from being Catholic - to admit that such a view is valid. The Orthodox regard us as heretics, and they don’t flock into the Church because we make certain claims about the canonisation of the NT; the reason being, that the ancient Church can easily be seen as Orthodox as Catholic, or Anglican or Presbyterian, or whatever. All these groups are equally well able to see the Fathers as their spiritual forebears - this is what people don’t seem to understand, and what aspiring apologists need to understand.

It’s also a reason why no one should be allowed to be an apologist unless they have at least some relevant academic qualifications - such as a degree in Church History. ##
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## ; the reason being, that the ancient Church can easily be seen as Orthodox as Catholic, or Anglican or Presbyterian, or whatever. All these groups are equally well able to see the Fathers as their spiritual forebears - this is what people don’t seem to understand, and what aspiring apologists need to understand.
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Note the early Fathers of the Church were all Catholic. So Anglicans, Protestants and any other Church that came after are not of the same Church as the Fathers were. If we look at quotes from early Fathers of the Church we see repeated quotes consistent with Catholic teaching, and no other teaching, yet Anglicans and Protestants today have chosen to pick and choose teachings as they see fit from the Fathers with no authority for doing so.

BH
 
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TheRaiders:
I guess what I am asking is if you look at Catholicism and reject all hope that Jesus founded one True Church because of that Church’s current state, then what if all of Christianity seemingly was in that state? What if you had no other Church or faith community to turn to as you do today?
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Also look at the history of the Catholic Church, it has been attacked since the earliest days, and has repeated problems all 20 centuries of it’s existence. Jesus clearly foretold this would happen in Scripture, “And you shall be hated by all men for my name’s sake” Luke 21:17. All knew the Church would be persecuted because Jesus said it would be so. We also see in Scripture repeatedly how few would follow the narrow road to salvation and that when Jesus returned, would he find anyone with faith? Again we knew the Church would suffer severe trials, as we are seeing today, but that it would never cease to exist. The sins of the members of the Church today do not make that church any less true. Don’t look at the members of the Church to see if it is true, look at the Church itself, as a whole over 2000 years.

BH
www.protestanterrors.com
 
Texan in DC:
If there is no set authority, than whom should we trust in scripture teaching.
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Test everything. Hold on to the good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21
Whom should we trust? No person, unless what they say has tested good.
 
A couple Bible verses always come to mind when authority is brought up.

Judges 21:25 “In those days there was no king in Israel; everyone did what he thought best.” Anyone who knows the story of the book of judges knows that God frequently had to send a figure of authority in order to guide the Israelites. In the times in which they had no authority, they fell into idolatry, sloth, and sin (one might even say the gates of hell prevailed 😉 ). Why not keep a permanent figure of authority in the form of the Church to guide us in Christ’s absence.

Matthew 7:24-27 “Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock. And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand. The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined.” Like the wise man, Christ built his church on the rock. Not much more analysis needed on this one.

Finally, Romans 13:1-5 “Let every person be subordinate to higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore; whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear to good conduct, but to evil. Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it, for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer. Therefore, it is necessary to be subject not only because of the wrath but also because of conscience.” This passage is speaking of secular governments, but how much more pertinent and powerful its words must become if Christ did indeed establish for himself an inspired Church.
 
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