If those outside the Church are against it

[Harpazo]

…then does that mean they’re against Christ? After all, in the Acts 9:4-5:

4 And falling on the ground, he heard a voice saying to him: Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 Who said: Who art thou, Lord? And he: I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. It is hard for thee to kick against the goad.

Saul was technically persecuting the Church, but Christ says Saul was persecuting Him. I know that most people when they are against the Church, it is out of ignorance, but if people such as certain Protestants, hate the Church (or at least think they do ), are they not hating Our Blessed Lord? The very name “Protestant” means they are protesting the Church, but in accordance with this passage, wouldn’t they also be *protesting *Christ?

Inquiring minds would like to know. Discuss!

In Pax Christi
Andrew

 

[Conciliar]

As you said, excluding sincere or invincible ignorance, those who oppose the Church are also opposing Christ. I would venture to say that this applies to cafeteria Catholics as much, if not more, than most Protestant groups.

 

[Teflon93]

…then does that mean they’re against Christ? After all, in the Acts 9:4-5:

Saul was technically persecuting the Church, but Christ says Saul was persecuting Him. I know that most people when they are against the Church, it is out of ignorance, but if people such as certain Protestants, hate the Church (or at least think they do ), are they not hating Our Blessed Lord? The very name “Protestant” means they are protesting the Church, but in accordance with this passage, wouldn’t they also be protesting Christ?

Inquiring minds would like to know. Discuss!

In Pax Christi
Andrew

The Church is the Body of Christ. One cannot oppose the Church without opposing Christ.

That is why she has endured for millennia.

 

[Harpazo]

The Church is the Body of Christ. One cannot oppose the Church without opposing Christ.

That is why she has endured for millennia.

I agree with you completely.

Why the silence in this thread? I thought everyone had opinions.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

 

[Teflon93]

I agree with you completely.

Why the silence in this thread? I thought everyone had opinions.

In Pax Christi
Andrew

If you insert “sola scriptura” somewhere they’ll come running.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

The silence in this thread is because it is very offensive.

I am highly offended by this thread. You are judging a fellow believers love of the Lord.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

As you said, excluding sincere or invincible ignorance, those who oppose the Church are also opposing Christ. I would venture to say that this applies to cafeteria Catholics as much, if not more, than most Protestant groups.

Your churches definition of church differs greatly from scripture and the balance of Christianity.

 

[Epsilon_Omega]

These verses explain that we must be one Church and not more than one.

Romans 16: 17-18
17
I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who create dissensions and obstacles, in opposition to the teaching that you learned; avoid them.
18
For such people do not serve our Lord Christ but their own appetites, and by fair and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the innocent.

1 Corinthians 1:10
I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.

 

[Reepicheep]

The Church is the Body of Christ. One cannot oppose the Church without opposing Christ.

That is why she has endured for millennia.

I agree with this, but there are two sides to the matter.
Remember: Saul’s* motive *was zeal for the word of God. He really thought he was defending the truth. When he learned otherwise - that was when he became Paul the Apostle.
I believe it was Bishop Fulton Sheen who said (paraphrasing from memory)
“There are not more than a thousand people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions who hate what they mistakenly believe the Catholic Church to be.”

 

[Teflon93]

Your churches definition of church differs greatly from scripture and the balance of Christianity.

Really?

How do you count the balance?

Last numbers I saw were 1 billion Catholics, 1 billion non-Catholic Christians. Since the latter include the Orthodox, do you presume that every non-Catholic defines “church” similarly, finds all non-Catholic churches to be churches, and finds the Catholic Church to not be?

That would be a surprising level of agreement.

 

[RCCDefender]

As you said, excluding sincere or invincible ignorance, those who oppose the Church are also opposing Christ. I would venture to say that this applies to cafeteria Catholics as much, if not more, than most Protestant groups.

I agree with this, but there are two sides to the matter.
Remember: *Saul’s motive ***was zeal for the word of God. He really thought he was defending the truth. When he learned otherwise - that was when he became Paul the Apostle.
I believe it was Bishop Fulton Sheen who said (paraphrasing from memory)
“There are not more than a thousand people in America who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions who hate what they mistakenly believe the Catholic Church to be.”

Yes, Paul did think he was defending the truth, as do many, many non-Catholic Christians. I would say that Paul was as invincibally ignorant as they (those who are protesting the Church) are. So would they not be protesting or persecting Christ just as Paul was??

Would a person who says this:

If you are a Roman Catholic, then you are living a contradiction. Are you going to follow God and what He teaches in the (never been proven wrong) Bible, or fallible man’s teachings instead? I’ve said it many times before, and I’ll LOVINGLY say it again: If you are claiming to follow God and are following a man/men (or the Pope/Vatican – they are just men, the Bible does not god-ify them), then you are choosing this world and man over God. This is a dangerous position to be in, and I will not stand by and do nothing while I see so many wonderful people continuing to be duped.

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. -Revelation 18:4

I do not know if the spiritual Babylon religion of Revelation will be the Catholic Church or not, but it’s a close enough call that it is debatable. I suspect that it’s going to be some type of Catholic-led ecumenical, emergent, post-modernist, mixed faith melting pot.

One Roman Catholic turned Christian states that one of the scriptures in the Bible that opened his eyes was:
” Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” - Matthew 7:13-14
Apparently, “that many people” can be wrong. Being popular or widely accepted is actually a cause for concern.

Dear Roman Catholic: If I hated you, then I’d keep my loud mouth shut. I’d sit by and smirk at the fact that you are duped. However, I’m not doing that, am I? I’m warning you. It’s up to you to choose what you will. The FACT is that I don’t hate you. Now you can look at that Fact, or make up some fancy hate story in your mind that will sit there and gnaw at you.

be persecuting Christ??

 

[Teflon93]

The silence in this thread is because it is very offensive.

I am highly offended by this thread. You are judging a fellow believers love of the Lord.

How is it offensive? It seems he’s merely asking a logical question.

Surely given how many come onto this forum to attack the Catholic Church, someone may ask a logical question from Scripture, can’t they?

1. The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ.
2. People attack the Catholic Church.
3. They simultaneously attack the Body of Christ.

For the record, I don’t believe you to have ever attacked the Catholic Church.

Do you believe those who do (the ones who claim the Pope is the Anti-Christ and somesuch) are not persecuting Christ, as Saul did?

 

[estesbob]

Your churches definition of church differs greatly from scripture and the balance of Christianity.

Starting when?

 

[Conciliar]

Yes, Paul did think he was defending the truth, as do many, many non-Catholic Christians. I would say that Paul was as invincibally ignorant as they (those who are protesting the Church) are. So would they not be protesting or persecting Christ just as Paul was??

Good point, Defender. I was thinking more along the lines of culpable opposition.

God alone is the judge and searcher of hearts, for that reason He forbids us to make judgments about the internal guilt of anyone. GS28

All opposition to the Church is, of course, opposition of Christ. As for the “internal guilt” referenced in Gaudiem et Spes, although we can’t truly make judgements, I would suspect that it is those who oppose from within the Church that are most likely among the culpable.