If we don't "Do Penance" do we perish?

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In Luke 13:5 Jesus said that if we don’t do penance we will perish.

The Catholic Church maintains that absent perfect contrition Sacramental Confession is required for salvation when one falls into grievous sin.

Protestants say that the Greek was translated wrong into Latin and then into English and that we need to only repent or else perish.

Did Jerome translate the Greek properly into Latin? Is the Douay Rheims translation of “Do Penance” an accurate one?

But specifically to the point–whether He said it in Hebrew or in Aramaic–did Jesus say that unless we “Do Penance” we will perish?

If He did then all Protestants who know what He said and refuse to “Do penance” will indeed perish.

On the other hand if Jesus didn’t say that we need to “Do Penance or else perish” then the Douay Rheims translation is wrong.

To be sure Jews throughout the Old Testament had done more than just renew their mind and make a turn for the better when they repented. Many times they would repent in sackcloth and ashes and other such penitential exercises.

Repentance wasn’t a singular event but was a process.

Did Jesus look at repentance as only a singular event as Martin Luther and the Protestants would maintain or did He actually say “Do Penance” and understood that to be an ongoing process?

What did Jesus really say?

If Jesus really said to “Do Penance” then the whole Reformation at its heart is disobedient to Jesus.

What’s the real deal ?

What did Jesus really say?
 
This topic is discussed in Haydock’s Catholic Bible commentary on Matthew 3:2.

From A Catholic Commentary on the New Testament, published by The Catholic Biblical Association, 1942, on Matthew 3:2:2. Repent and “repentance” are important words in the preaching both of [John] the Baptist and of Christ; they signify not regret for the past or the performance of “penance” but rather a change of mind and heart, a new outlook on life in keeping with the will of God. …It seems to me that regret for the past and the performance of “penance” are fruits of the change of mind and heart meant by the Greek word metanoia.
 
I would agree that penance would follow a change in mind and heart.

But if that is true then isn’t “Do Penance” a better translation than “repentance”?

“Repentance” doesn’t require acts of penance–“Do penance” does require those acts.

Bottom line is the Greek word “metanoia” is irrelavent. What is relavent is what Jesus’ actual words were.

It is possible that we don’t know since we don’t know what the original gospel writer wrote–was he quoting Jesus speaking in Hebrew or Jesus speaking in Aramaic or did he translate what Jesus said into Greek?.

What words would Jesus have used if he was speaking in Hebrew or Aramaic–if those word’s meanings are different from “Metanoia” then that’s what we really need to know.

I’m not saying that the basis for the Catholic doctrine of penance depends upon the translation “do penance”–I am saying that if that’s what Jesus originally said in Hebrew or Aramaic that that would totally destroy Luther’s argument for a different system for the forgiveness of sin than that that was taught by the Catholic Church for 1500 years up until his time.

I don’t think that Jesus meant only a change of mind or heart when He spoke those words–that is certainly part of what He meant but I do not think that was all that He meant because it would be radically different from the Old Testament.

What is the Hebrew concept of Teshuva? What is the Hebrew word for “repentance”? And what Hebrew word would include the concept of penitential exercises along with a change of mind and heart such as repenting in sack cloth and ashes as was done in the Old Testament?

if Jesus does want us to “Do Penance” then we need to know that.

I think Jesus does want us to “Do penance” and that “Repentance” is not enough just as “Faith alone” is not enough.

The question remains: did Jesus tell us to “Do penance” or we would perish?

I kow as a Catholic that “Doing penance” is necessary. What I’m asking is did Jesus say that we should “Do penance” or did that teaching originate with the church?
 
Regardless of which language Jesus spoke, the Holy Spirit inspired the gospel writers to use the Greek word metanoia and so it is quite relevant.

I do not mean to take away from the great benefits derived from doing acts of penance but, strictly speaking, doing acts of penance in this life to remit the temporal punishment due to sin are not absolutely required. Baptism remits all temporal and eternal punishment of prior sins. And, assuming that the eternal punishment due to mortal sins committed after Baptism has been remitted in Confession, any temporal punishment due for sins committed after Baptism and not remitted in this life will be remitted in Purgatory.
 
In Luke 13:5 Jesus said that if we don’t do penance we will perish.

The Catholic Church maintains that absent perfect contrition Sacramental Confession is required for salvation when one falls into grievous sin.

Protestants say that the Greek was translated wrong into Latin and then into English and that we need to only repent or else perish.

Did Jerome translate the Greek properly into Latin? Is the Douay Rheims translation of “Do Penance” an accurate one?

But specifically to the point–whether He said it in Hebrew or in Aramaic–did Jesus say that unless we “Do Penance” we will perish?

If He did then all Protestants who know what He said and refuse to “Do penance” will indeed perish.

On the other hand if Jesus didn’t say that we need to “Do Penance or else perish” then the Douay Rheims translation is wrong.

To be sure Jews throughout the Old Testament had done more than just renew their mind and make a turn for the better when they repented. Many times they would repent in sackcloth and ashes and other such penitential exercises.

Repentance wasn’t a singular event but was a process.

Did Jesus look at repentance as only a singular event as Martin Luther and the Protestants would maintain or did He actually say “Do Penance” and understood that to be an ongoing process?

What did Jesus really say?

If Jesus really said to “Do Penance” then the whole Reformation at its heart is disobedient to Jesus.

What’s the real deal ?

What did Jesus really say?
Main Entry: Re-pent Etymology: Middle English, from Old French repentir, from re-+pentir to be sorry, from Latin paenitEre or PENITENT (Merriam-Webster,1999)
PENITENT \Pen"i*tent, n. 1, one under church censure, but admitted to penance; one undergoing penance. (Webster’s Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996)

There were several instances in the 16th Century where the traditional Latin vocabulary used by St. Jerome in the Vulgate was challenged based on the grammar and vocabulary in the Greek New Testament. Most of this were minor quibbles of no great import, but some were used by prots to question Catholic teaching and practice.

One of the important challenges were the following:
  1. The translation of “metanoeo” as "paenitentiam agite"
The Greek verb “metanoeo" comes from two other Greek words: meta (change) & noos (mind). The most accurate rendering into English of the meaning of this word would be “to repent.” The implication was that at some point in **time someone **would change their mind about a past action and regret having done it. There was no simple Latin equivalent of this Greek term and so the Vulgate used the phrase "paenitentiam agite"which in Latin means "do penance.” The idea of “penance” in Latin carried the connotation of regret and sorrow for past actions but went further in that it also implied the performing of acts of reparation and mortification. By having Jesus say that his followers had to “do penance and believe the Gospel” (Mark 1:15) it **implied that they needed to perform acts of mortification (fasting, self-denial, wearing a hair shirt, self flagellation) or reparation (restoring loss goods, compensating victims) , as conditions for the forgiveness of sins. **

The prots in the 16th Century claimed that the word metanoeo carried no such implication and that all that was needed was a genuine sense of sorrow for sin. Certain radicals – typified today by some Dispensationalists – even stated that sorrow for sin was not needed. They claimed that repentance merely meant that you intellectually changed the way you thought from that moment forwards without any reference to past actions. Those were “covered over” by Christ and hence forgotten by God.

Technically, the prots were right. The words “metaneo” and "paenitentiam agite"are not exact equivalents. But they forgot that the NT uses Greek words in a distinctly Hebraic way and that they must be understood in the context of a Hebrew idiom. The word for “repent” in OT Hebrew was "nacham" which has the following connotations according to Strong’s Concordance:

Nacham - to be sorry, console oneself, repent, regret, comfort, be comforted

a) (Niphal)
  1. to be sorry, be moved to pity, have compassion
  2. to be sorry, rue, suffer grief, repent
  3. to comfort oneself, be comforted
  4. to comfort oneself, ease oneself
b) (Piel) to comfort, console

c) (Pual) to be comforted, be consoled

d) (Hithpael)
  1. to be sorry, have compassion
  2. to rue, repent of
  3. to comfort oneself, be comforted
  4. to ease oneself
As you can see, **the OT concept included sorrow, grief , compassion, and acts to comfort others and be comforted oneself. Repentance was not merely a passive act of regret nor merely a change of mind. As such, St. Jerome’s choice of "do penance"had the wider context of the OT meaning in mind and we need to appreciate that.
**
In later rabbinical theology, the term “teshuvah” (turning) would be used for repentance. It would be defined by the Talmud as a turning towards God and a turning away from one’s sins. It also meant a turning towards one’s sins as something to contemplate and regret: the opposite of moral denial. St. Thomas Aquinas was aware of this rabbinical teaching and in his Summa Theologiae he has the turnings towards God and towards/away from sin as two of the four results of the grace of justification. (The other two were the forgiveness of sin and the infusion of the new life of grace.)

The Rabbis were not heavily into acts of mortification. many of these practices were unique to Christians who wished to imitate their Lord in his suffering for mankind on the cross. Nevertheless, repentance in “sack cloth and ashes” was a Jewish practice advocated in both Testaments(e.g., Daniel 9:3, Matthew 11:21Matt 11:21 they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. , Luke 10:13).
If one steals from someone, or damages another’s property willfully or neglectfully, is it enough to have true sorrow and resolve not to do it again? Or is something more required such as restitution!
In summary, the issue here was whether Greek grammar or the Biblical idiom should guide the translation. The prots opted for the former while St. Jerome and the Catholic Tradition opted for the latter.
 
I think there are two things going on in the OP. One is a discussion concerning the precise and technical meanings of the original words and which translation is better. This is good in that it can help us uncover another meaning from the original text. But in reality it can lead to speculation since the question asks what word did Jesus use in Hebrew or Aramaic even though the only original we have is in Greek.

At a much deeper level is how both Protestants and Catholics deal with sin. In a broad generalization Protestants tend to view sin as only an offense towards God. The idea of penance has almost entirely vanished from the Protestant lexicon – since Christ died on the cross for our sins no action on our part – outside of asking for forgiveness – is necessary.

Catholics tend to view sin as not only a rupture in our relationship with God but also within the community. Public penance – as done after confession – is one way of publicly repairing that damage. It brings us right with both God and among our friends, family and neighbors. It seems to me that this penance is necessary since it works to right things on both earth and in heaven, without neglecting the one for the other.

ChadS
 
Does anyone know the Possible Hebrew words or Aramaic words that Jesus could have used? If all of them indicated “Do penance” more than just “Repentance” then we might could conclude that Jerome’s choice of translation of "Metanoia: from Greek into Latin was indeed the better translation.

In other words the Greek word “Metanoia” is irrelavent if the original gospel writer did not originally write in Greek.

Did the original writers of the gospels first pen the gospels in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic?
 
Does anyone know the Possible Hebrew words or Aramaic words that Jesus could have used? If all of them indicated “Do penance” more than just “Repentance” then we might could conclude that Jerome’s choice of translation of "Metanoia: from Greek into Latin was indeed the better translation.

In other words the Greek word “Metanoia” is irrelavent if the original gospel writer did not originally write in Greek.

Did the original writers of the gospels first pen the gospels in Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic?
Three were thought to be certainly Greek in the original. Luke, John and Mark. Matthew was either in Greek or Aramaic, but the earliest surviving copy in in Greek.

God Bless
 
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