I suppose a Protestant could open a thread entitled, “If you consider yourself a Christian, why on heaven’s earth are you a member of the Catholic Church?”The question here is - If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?
“What we don’t like about Jimmy B” would be a great topic for another thread but that isn’t the question here.
Peace
I think he may believe that it will abbreviate his time in Purgatory if he is successful in ticking off Protestants.
It may not be for you, n2thelight, but it is for those of us that live the reality of the Catholic faith. Any chance that you might let go of your prejudice against Catholics?
the catholics that don’t follow the teachings of the Catholic Church in matters such as birth control are not faithful to the teachings of the Church they profess, and they have placed themselves in grave danger, (serious sin) but they have not started another denomination. that would be heresy.
Are you saying that persons who call themselves Catholic, yet do not accept the teachings of the Church are still authentic Catholics?
I agree with you that teaching error is equivalent to passing through the gates of hell. If it were possible for the Church to teach error, then the entire body would have been on the path to perdition. This is why Jesus sent His Spirit to guide the Church into all truth, so that this would not happen. Salvation is dependent upon “doctrinal safety”. Salvation is coming into the knowledge of the Truth. There is only one Truth, and that found in Him who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Outside of Him there is no salvation. Therefore, having a false understanding of who He is will cause a person to stray off the path.
I will dare all to place my confidence in Christ, who is the Head of the Church, and in His promise that He will remain with us until the end of the age.
All are subject to Christ’s authority, whether they recognize it or not. All are subject to the authority He appointed, whether they recognize it or not. There are many rebellious subjects of the Roman Pontiff, especially in Europe and the United states.
Rejection of Truth breeds disunity. It is really not a matter of disagreeing with one another, as it is disagreement with the Teaching of Jesus.
I cannot tell from the post who wrote this, but I can tell you that there is no unity without Truth. It is in adherance to the Truth that unity results. Unity is a fruit of being one in the Truth. When any part of the Truth is rejected, disunity results. This is why we see so much fractioning in Protestantism today. The Reformers rejected part of the Truth, and the fruit has been more disunity. The fractioning has multiplied exponentially.
I agree. the Church attempted to stamp this out during the Refomation, and it was demonstrated that people will stubbornly persist in error and rebellion at the price of their own souls. It is incumbent upon the Church to Teach and Preach the Truth. If people insist upon falling into error, or running after it, all she can do is warn them. Killing them obviously doesn’t work.
Yikes!
You might want to reconsider this statement. You just made the case for many who consider the Catholic Church’s teaching’s heresy.The Catholic Church predates the Scriptures (NT). We read in Acts 8:3 “But Saul made havock of the church, entering in from house to house, and dragging away men and women, committed them to prison.” He later went on to pen a large portion of the NT. Scriptural Truth is based on the Teachings of the Apostles, which became our NT and Sacred Tradition. Does the statement “The Catholic Church was never based on ‘scriptural truth’.” make more sense now?Yikes!
Well, it is accurate. The Catholic Scriptures are based on the Catholic Church’s teachings. Many people mistakenly put the cart before the horse.Yikes!
Could you please explain what this means? Strayed into what error? Do you mean you think things were ok for 1500 years?Protestants do not rely on their own personal human judegement. The Roman Catholic church does, that is is why it strayed into error after 1500 years.
You are right. I don’t quite understand how you can take this verse out of the rest of scripture, build a doctrine on one verse, and ignore what the rest of the scripture says about salvation.
So, hwat do you think it means when it says that believers fall from grace?
The gates of hell are guarding the road to perdition. Once a person passes through the gates, they are no longer on the straight and narrow road that leads to Life. When Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church, he meant that He would keep the Church on the straight and narrow way that leads to life.
Well, I agree with all this, but there are other elements of the church that are already sanctified and glorfied, and there are elements that are divine, and incapable of error. All those are true descriptors of the Church.
Now I am totally confused.
I know, it is bold. What I mean by it is that the Teachings of Jesus committed to the Apostles were whole and entire before a word of the NT was written. The Catholic faith is not “bible based” it is Christ based. The Holy Scriptures reflect this faith, but our doctrines are based on the teachings of Jesus through the apostles, and not from cherry picking passages out of context. Hope that clarifies my radical statement.Yikes!
As for me, I completely surrender to Christ and His Catholic Church. I don’t believe that I am the “smartest” Christian who has ever lived. However, because of the flawed Protestant belief, which is “personal interpretation” many here do. Many Protestants belong to the religion of their own intellect, or should I say, “a slave’ or “victim” of their own intellect?
Jimmy B, just a note.
*And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye is the world’s largest single religious body,[14] and comprises 23 “particular Churches,” or Rites, all of which acknowledge a primacy of jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome and are in full communion with the Holy See and each other.may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. * (Rom 12:2)
**All catholic’s agree with this verse! **
Protestants do not rely on their own personal human judegement.
I agree, however, they do rely on personal, human interpretation. Private interpretation is the bedrock of protestantism! Every protestant church can only trace its origin back to a mere man, based on the traditions of that unique church.
The catholic position is that it is illogical to base faith upon the private interpretation of the Bible. They take faith to consist of submitting to authority in which the last word rests with the teacher as expressed in the bible, whereas with private interpretation, the last word rests with the reader. The Catholic Church teaches that private judgement is fatal to the theological virtue of faith and causes divisions in the people of God, and this division and disunity is glaringly obvious in the protestant world.
The Roman Catholic church does…
The C.C. was granted authority by Jesus and is guided by the Holy Spirit regarding matters of faith and morals–only.
that is is why it strayed into error after 1500 years.
I**f the C.C. failed then Jesus failed, according to the bible! He said He would be with them “forever.” He would not leave them orphans! According to your rationale He did leave them orphans in favour of a multiplicity of truths within the protestant churches.
Seriously, isn’t that tantamount to admitting that Jesus misspoke (left them orphans, at least until Martin Luther and company reputedly saved the day, 1500 years later) --when he said:
“And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.” John 14:15-18
“All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.” John 14:25-26
“When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me…” John 15:26
"But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. John 16:7
Did the gates of hades in fact, temporally overcome the church, Jesus built on His chosen apostle Peter, the apostles and prophets?
How can you reconcile your belief that the C.C. apostatized as a whole, with what sacred scripture says about Jesus’ promise of perpetuity via the Holy Spirit, teaching His church “all things” and reminding the church of everything He taught the apostolic church during his earthly ministry? Wouldn’t the Holy Spirit (Parakletos) be the ultimate “helper” --indefectible, infallible and impervious to error, and if so, how could it be possible that the Catholic Apostolic Church (a church comprised of fallible humans, both sinners and saints) could ever “stray” from what Jesus taught? Did the Holy Spirit drop the ball?
**
Luther went so far as to exhort that the human intellect is a prostitute (Luther expressed himself quite vivdly from time to time). This means that one must be subject to the guidance of the Holy Spirit who reveals all truth to us and reforms our thinking.
**As a former Lutheran, I’ve done my research on Martin Luther and he expressed himself quite insanely from time to time too. And he hypercritically believed his authority supplanted that of the C.C.!!! if Luther had been enlightened by God, he would have succeeded in reforming the Church. Just like Francis of Assisi. What about him? Well… he heard Our Lord’s voice telling him: “Francis, repair my church. Don’t you see it’s crumbling down?” So Francis started a religious order… based mainly on poverty. Everyone was amazed, and the rich and powerful pope was embarrassed when he saw Francis’ poverty. Today we can see Franciscan orders everywhere in the Catholic Church. They brought union and consistence to the Church. Now this is what i imagine Luther would have done if he had truly reformed the Church. **
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Truth is absolutely NOT RELATIVE. When it comes to Jesus’ church, there can be only one truth.
Honestly and sincerely, which church do you recommend to —find “all truth?” Which church is subject to the guidance of the Holy Spirit who reveals all truth to us and reforms our thinking? Certainly all truth is tantamount to all Christians sharing the same beliefs, handed down from Jesus to His apostles and so on. If the C.C. fails the truth litmus test, surely all protestant churches fail as well. Where does that leave us?**
* Of Alexandrian liturgical tradition:
o Coptic Catholic Church
o Ethiopic Catholic Church
* Of Antiochian liturgical tradition:
o Maronite Church
o Syrian Catholic Church
o Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
* Of Armenian liturgical tradition:
o Armenian Catholic Church
* Of Byzantine (Constantinopolitan) liturgical tradition:
o Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church
o Belarusian Greek Catholic Church
o Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church
o Byzantine Church of the Eparchy of Križevci
o Greek Byzantine Catholic Church
o Hungarian Greek Catholic Church
o Italo-Albanian Catholic Church
o Macedonian Greek Catholic Church
o Melkite Greek Catholic Church
o Romanian Church United with Rome, Greek-Catholic
o Russian Byzantine Catholic Church
o Ruthenian Catholic Church
o Slovak Greek Catholic Church
o Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
* Of Chaldean or East Syrian tradition:
o Chaldean Catholic Church
o Syro-Malabar Church
* Of Western liturgical tradition:
o Latin Church**Partially. However, the Church is based on Scriptural Truth, at least partially, the “New Testament” Truth. I still think his statement is still very misleading or perhaps just plain wrong.