If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

[12Mary12]

Memaw, you must be in the South, somewhere.

You brought up another good point. Heck, I didn’t want to play be the rules when I was young.

So, people leave because they are not really committed to their faith and go elsewhere to get their needs met. So should we be doing better at meeting those needs or should we be working to get that committment from the young?? I suspect it can’t be an either/or decision. Kids will not commit if the same level of commitment is not found at home But sometimes Youth Groups can bring both kids and parents.

 

[joe370]

In the thirteen hundreds some Franciscan monks questioned the lifestyle of excess in which the pope engaged, as they were being burned at the stake the realization came that the church was not a physical organization. See reclaimingwalther.org/articles/cfw00006.htm. I would say I am "c"atholic, and "o"rthodox.

This is tbuley’s source: en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia_(1913)/Pope_John_XXII

I apologize for the length of this post; I did my best to encapsulate my point! This is tbuley’s basis for rejecting the papacy? By rejecting something, you first must judge it!

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Matthew 7:1-5

The Bible says, “Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offenses will come: but woe unto him, whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.” “Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them…” Acts 20:28-30 The fate of all those wolves in sheep’s clothing, past present and future, parading around in the Church which is the House of the Living God, the mystical Body of Christ and the Pillar and Foundation of Truth with Jesus as the head over all of it —is, according to the bible infinitely worse than anything they did while still alive; eternal damnation! “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” Mark 3:29 "Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ "The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ "They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ "He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matthew 25: 37-46

Sin, even at high levels in the Church and I am including protestant churches and evangelicals, should not shock anyone. One would be foolish to expect otherwise in any human institution. People within the church will fail, but the Church will endure – because it is God’s will: “I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” (Matt. 16:18)

Jesus said His worse enemy would not prevail against His Mystical Body and that the Holy Spirit (which is one with Jesus and His Father) would be guiding that church through every century until the end of time! “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:20 --This command was uttered by Jesus Christ circa 33 A.D. to one church and no other; the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

 

[joe370]

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, the life-giving power of God, the promulgator of Jesus’ work in the salvation and eternal destiny of men and women. Jesus Christ promised His apostles that “If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you. “I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live (these words were spoken to the Apostles and by extension, the Catholic Apostolic Church, not the Lutheran church or any other church for that matter)…I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me, (however he does on men if they are weak; especially members of His Mystical "Body, the church.* “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”*) On that day (Pentecost) you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. John 14:15-18; 30. Since the Holy Spirit is to be with the church Jesus established in the 1st century, through every century (not until the 4th, the 11th or the 16th century) but until the end of time, it only stands to reason that the Catholic Apostolic Church (comprised of very fallible people) is still being taught all things by the infallible Holy Spirit, making that church’s teaching on matters of faith and morals infallible, regardless of the chaff mixed in with the wheat!

Jesus sees apostates and He sees saints in His Body; He sees both the chaff and the wheat in His Body; He sees the good sheep and wolves in sheep’ s clothing in His Body, and these evildoers, one day will meet Jesus Christ face to face, possibly be shown what could have been (eternal heaven) and then shown what will be; total separation from God FOREVER. Matthew 7:21–23 implies that there are many counterfeit believers, since even some of those who prophesy, cast out demons, and “do many mighty works” in Jesus’ name will be cast from Christ’s presence at the Judgment, and he will say to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.”

I will use the same basis for rejecting the churches stemming from the reformation, starting with the 16th century reformers that spearheaded the movement, e.g. Martin Luther and John Calvin etc. They did horrible things to people in the name of god. I’m not judging or condemning, I’m simply pointing out the facts, like you. If protestants look at the historical record, instead of the bible which plainly says: “Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them…” Acts 20:28 “it is impossible that scandals should not come: but woe to him through whom they come. Luke 17:1 (Here we see Jesus starkly stating that it is impossible that scandals should not come but woe to him through whom they come.) The scandals that manifest through evildoers in the FATHERS HOUSE, the church are destined to a place, I don’t even like to think about, and they will be their for all eternity to think about their insidious, reprehensible actions. "and a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.” (the bible says the church is the house of the living god meaning there will be good and bad people in it) Matthew 10:36 ---------and concludes that the catholic church is untrustworthy, then the protestant churches stemming from the protestant reformation (1500 years removed from the Apostles) are untrustworthy as well, and should be judged by the same standard even though the bible says, "do not judge, or you too will be judged. for in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” Matthew 7:1 Judgement comes from God and God alone!

 

[joe370]

We are responsible for our own spiritual development, including proper instruction. God gave us the ability to reason and separate the wheat from the chaff, doctrinally speaking. And he gave us the Holy Spirit via the church. If anyone desires to know true Catholic teaching, it’s easy to obtain. The new Catechism of the Catholic Church is a good start, the documents of Vatican II, browsing the Internet, or watching EWTN. If non-Catholics simply rely on the repeated boiler plate lies spoken by some protestants, not all protestants, e.g. catholics worship Mary and statues etc. then the truths of the C.C. will forever remain a mystery to non-Catholics.

One can never judge a communion by the views of its members, or by polls and sociological surveys. If this is the proper method, then there is no Church on the earth. One will always find heterodoxy (as internally or externally defined) among the masses, or the people in the pews, in every Christian group. Jesus assumed this would be the case, and spoke of it frequently. Matt. 3:12; 13:24–30, 47–50; 22:1–14; 24:1–13; 25:14–30). Paul concurs (cf. Acts 20:30; 2 Tim. 2:15–20). As usual, the biblical writers anticipate what would be a stumbling block throughout Church history.

Sinners (and dissenters) are in the true Church. Even Judas was regarded as a true apostle. Matt. 10:4; Mark 3:19; John 6:70–71; Acts 1:17 Even though dissent and corruption are troubling and scandalous of their own accord, the attainment of moral purity is irrelevant with regard to the determination of which Church is divinely established by Christ, wouldn’t you agree!

Given the reality of original sin, such problems cannot be avoided and always will be with us. Therefore, one can go only by the official teaching of any group and whether or not it institutionalizes and sanctions division and schism (not to mention various moral and doctrinal errors). The Catholic Church is criticized on the basis of dissent in practice within its ranks rather than by what it actually teaches, and has taught consistently, through the ages. The biblical support for the concept of a Church containing sinners --yet remaining a true Church --is abundant. The parable of the wheat and weeds (Matt. 13:24–30, 36–43) reads as if the weeds are at least equal in number to the wheat. A moment’s reflection on the proliferation of uncontrolled weeds in any lawn will bring this point home. This is also apparent in the similar pronouncements about wheat and chaff (Matt. 3:12; Luke 3:17).

Jesus also asked, “When the Son of man comes, will he find faith on earth?” Luke 18:8 WOW, THAT SAYS SO MUCH!!! This doesn’t present a rosy picture about the great numbers of faithful. And again, “Some one said to him, ‘Lord, will those who are saved be few?’ And he said to them, ‘Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able’” (Luke 13:23–24).

The above view is anchored in reality: Scripture, Church history, and reason (as well as original sin and the resultant fallenness of mankind). God used Balaam’s *** to convey his truth; he made an eternal covenant with a murderer and adulterer (David); he chose another murderer to be the foremost apostle (Paul), and a wavering coward (prior to Jesus’ resurrection) to lead his Church (Peter). Of course, it would be preferable for the Catholic Church and all its members to be perfectly holy. But this is the real world. Sin does not rule out the possibility of a true Church. And no one needs to drive a wedge between Jesus and his ordained structure of the Church; It would be futile at best!!! I have come to believe that the Truth is to be believed, even if only one person in the world believes it.

The good things in Protestantism still can be (and are) affirmed by the Catholic Church. It’s not an either/or proposition when it comes to individual beneficial spiritual acts and beliefs. But when one discusses what the one “Church” is, we must draw the line and state that it is the Catholic Church —because of apostolic succession and because it is the only plausible choice that possesses the Nicene Creed’s four marks of the Church in their undiluted fullness.

 

[joe370]

So to summarize, should we just give up on the C.C. established by Jesus Christ, because some wolves in sheep’s clothing in the 14th century performed heinous acts on God’s creation, because twisted sexual deviants infested Jesus’ “Body”, the church (These freaks are found in every Christian denomination, and worldly institution, the world over as well) --which is Jesus’ body; the House of the living GOD; the pillar and foundation of truth? Can you imagine how Jesus must feel, considering He is the the Head of His Mystical Body, the Church! Jesus knew this would happen long before the church was established, again: “Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them…” Acts 20:28 — Jesus, knew full well that evil parasites would enter into His Mystical Body, the Church, the House of the Living God, and pillar and foundation of truth, and He still allowed it to happen. WHY? Because He is GOD, and knew His Body, the Church and its members, regardless of the chaff mixed in with the wheat, would prevail. “And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16:18

To say the Catholic Apostolic Church has apostatized is to call GOD A LIAR ON SO MANY LEVELS! God can’t fail; infallibility and love are His Divine characteristics, but men and women can and do fail and will continue to do so until Jesus’ second coming, and Jesus allows this to happen out of his love for his children. He loves us so much by giving each and everyone of us free will. What we choose to do with that free will during our lifetime, will ultimately lead us to two doors after we die: First door —eternal glory with the Trinity, the angels and our long lost loved ones, or Second door-- an eternal separation from the Trinity, the angels and all those who passed before us, and will pass after us. I, a former Lutheran, unlike most protestants, believe in purgatory, and I believe that many, once they’ve gone through some sort of Divine purgation process will step into that first door and it will be the greatest, most euphoric moment of their lives, or should I say of their ETERNAL GLORIFIED LIVES…

God bless…

 

[joe370]

My source for the atrocities committed by the men that spearheaded the reformation, and it isn’t from any catholic apologetic site, and can be cross referenced to confirm its veracity;not for the faint of heart. Just the facts, no judgement!!!

An Anabaptist speaks out…

sullivan-county.com/identity/reformers.htm

 

[mikew262]

For those who leave the Catholic Church for denominations that are “friendlier and warmer” are thinking more of themselves, how they feel, than of Our Lord. Like I have said before, they do not know or understand the beauty of the Holy Catholic Faith. The Catholic Church has never been a fellowship only church. We are there to worship God.

Maybe if the Catholic Church would be a little more “warmer and friendlier”, we wouldn’t lose so many members to other denominations. Sure, we are there to worship God, as they do at the other churches, but what is wrong with having a little more friendly environment? Maybe the Church needs to take a lesson from some of these other churches.

 

[Memaw]

Memaw, you must be in the South, somewhere.

You brought up another good point. Heck, I didn’t want to play be the rules when I was young.

So, people leave because they are not really committed to their faith and go elsewhere to get their needs met. So should we be doing better at meeting those needs or should we be working to get that committment from the young?? I suspect it can’t be an either/or decision. Kids will not commit if the same level of commitment is not found at home But sometimes Youth Groups can bring both kids and parents.

You hit the nail on the head that time. It has to be taught and lived in the home more than anywhere else. Parents have got to realize the important responsibility they have in raising their Children in the Catholic faith. The Church, the school and CCD can only do so much. They are there to help the parents, not do their job for them. So many times they leave it up to the teacher to do everything and then blame the Church when their kids leave the faith. I taught religion for over 20 years thru the turmoil of the 70’s and 80’s. and taught what the CHURCH teaches, not some new idea that someone “claimed” was Vat. II. I belonged to Catholics United for the Faith all during that time and that helped me keep my balance. Many parents didn’t even know what their kids were being taught and wouldn’t believe you if you tried to tell them. A priest once told me that at least 2 generations of young people have been misled in the most serious ways about their faith and I think thats one reason why many have left. Now they are parents and I often wonder how they are doing. Off and on I still see some of the ones I have taught and have thanked me for teaching them. One young man, (already in college) came up to me and ask if I remembered him, and I said yes, I do and he said, Mrs. ------, I want you to know you saved me from getting involved with some kids that were getting into satanism when I was in your class. (I was teaching them about the dangers of it at about that time.) He said, because of what you told us I knew these kids were heading into trouble and I stayed away from them. I said, Thank GOD Michael and teach your children when you have them. Things like that make 20 years of teaching worth every effort.
Yes I agree we do have to reach out to others and as the Pope tells us over and over to live the truths of our faith and set a good example. Thats one reason why I am here on this forum, to help whenever I can. My grandkids are now in Catholic schools and I am very happy to say that the schools are very committed in teaching the truths of the Catholic Faith.

 

[Memaw]

In the thirteen hundreds some Franciscan monks questioned the lifestyle of excess in which the pope engaged, as they were being burned at the stake the realization came that the church was not a physical organization. See reclaimingwalther.org/articles/cfw00006.htm. I would say I am "c"atholic, and "o"rthodox.

This is tbuley’s source: en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catholic_Encyclopedia_(1913)/Pope_John_XXII

I apologize for the length of this post; I did my best to encapsulate my point! This is tbuley’s basis for rejecting the papacy? By rejecting something, you first must judge it!

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. Matthew 7:1-5

The Bible says, “Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offenses will come: but woe unto him, whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.” “Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them…” Acts 20:28-30 The fate of all those wolves in sheep’s clothing, past present and future, parading around in the Church which is the House of the Living God, the mystical Body of Christ and the Pillar and Foundation of Truth with Jesus as the head over all of it —is, according to the bible infinitely worse than anything they did while still alive; eternal damnation! “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” Mark 3:29 "Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ "The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ "They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ "He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Matthew 25: 37-46

Sin, even at high levels in the Church and I am including protestant churches and evangelicals, should not shock anyone. One would be foolish to expect otherwise in any human institution. People within the church will fail, but the Church will endure – because it is God’s will: “I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” (Matt. 16:18)

Jesus said His worse enemy would not prevail against His Mystical Body and that the Holy Spirit (which is one with Jesus and His Father) would be guiding that church through every century until the end of time! “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:20 --This command was uttered by Jesus Christ circa 33 A.D. to one church and no other; the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

AMEN , I would suggest reading the writings of the Early Church Fathers.

 

[Memaw]

So to summarize, should we just give up on the C.C. established by Jesus Christ, because some wolves in sheep’s clothing in the 14th century performed heinous acts on God’s creation, because twisted sexual deviants infested Jesus’ “Body”, the church (These freaks are found in every Christian denomination, and worldly institution, the world over as well) --which is Jesus’ body; the House of the living GOD; the pillar and foundation of truth? Can you imagine how Jesus must feel, considering He is the the Head of His Mystical Body, the Church! Jesus knew this would happen long before the church was established, again: “Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them…” Acts 20:28 — Jesus, knew full well that evil parasites would enter into His Mystical Body, the Church, the House of the Living God, and pillar and foundation of truth, and He still allowed it to happen. WHY? Because He is GOD, and knew His Body, the Church and its members, regardless of the chaff mixed in with the wheat, would prevail. “And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16:18

To say the Catholic Apostolic Church has apostatized is to call GOD A LIAR ON SO MANY LEVELS! God can’t fail; infallibility and love are His Divine characteristics, but men and women can and do fail and will continue to do so until Jesus’ second coming, and Jesus allows this to happen out of his love for his children. He loves us so much by giving each and everyone of us free will. What we choose to do with that free will during our lifetime, will ultimately lead us to two doors after we die: First door —eternal glory with the Trinity, the angels and our long lost loved ones, or Second door-- an eternal separation from the Trinity, the angels and all those who passed before us, and will pass after us. I, a former Lutheran, unlike most protestants, believe in purgatory, and I believe that many, once they’ve gone through some sort of Divine purgation process will step into that first door and it will be the greatest, most euphoric moment of their lives, or should I say of their ETERNAL GLORIFIED LIVES…

God bless…

Thank you and God Bless.

 

[Memaw]

Maybe if the Catholic Church would be a little more “warmer and friendlier”, we wouldn’t lose so many members to other denominations. Sure, we are there to worship God, as they do at the other churches, but what is wrong with having a little more friendly environment? Maybe the Church needs to take a lesson from some of these other churches.

“Friendly environments” are fine and I find them everywhere in the Catholic Church, I don’t even know why people say that. Our worship at Mass is about the suffering and death of our Lord Jesus Christ and our sorrow for our sins, hearing the Word of GOD, and the Sacred Consecration and receiving of Our Lord in Holy Communion. It is NOT a time for gabbing. You get out of Mass, what you put into it. The Grace is there, if you are truly open to it. Protestant services do not have that and so they fill their time with fellowship. It is a poor substitute for the Mass. May seem to be more “warm and friendly” but it is aimed at each other. Me, Me, Me, what makes ME feel good. If you’ve never known anything but that, then I guess you can live with it. But if you have ever truly felt the Presence of Jesus Christ, in the Catholic Church, you may be fooled for a time but many come back home to the true Faith eventually. Don’t blame the Church, its our own fault of we don’t learn our faith as there are sooooo many ways available to get to know what the Church teaches. We do have that responsibility to ourselves first and foremost.

 

[mikew262]

“Friendly environments” are fine and I find them everywhere in the Catholic Church, I don’t even know why people say that. Our worship at Mass is about the suffering and death of our Lord Jesus Christ and our sorrow for our sins, hearing the Word of GOD, and the Sacred Consecration and receiving of Our Lord in Holy Communion. It is NOT a time for gabbing. You get out of Mass, what you put into it. The Grace is there, if you are truly open to it. Protestant services do not have that and so they fill their time with fellowship. It is a poor substitute for the Mass. May seem to be more “warm and friendly” but it is aimed at each other. Me, Me, Me, what makes ME feel good. If you’ve never known anything but that, then I guess you can live with it. But if you have ever truly felt the Presence of Jesus Christ, in the Catholic Church, you may be fooled for a time but many come back home to the true Faith eventually. Don’t blame the Church, its our own fault of we don’t learn our faith as there are sooooo many ways available to get to know what the Church teaches. We do have that responsibility to ourselves first and foremost.

While I understand what you’re saying, I suspect Jesus was (is) probably a pretty friendly fellow and not a “stick in the mud” like some of his Churches have turned out to be. While acknowledging him and worshiping is certainly important, I think he would say fellowship is just as important. “Love one another as I have loved you” is one of the greatest commandments right out of his own mouth. Certainly many Catholic Churches and non-Catholic ones have learned this lesson, but I suspect many have not, thus the exodus.

 

[12Mary12]

If I have somehow implied that the Mass should be changed, I apologize, I never meant that.

However, outside of the Mass we can do a better job of meeting the human needs for communication, warmth and fellowship. Perhaps making it easier to get involved by setting up tables at the entrances to the church for volunteer sign-up. In good weather set up the coffee and donuts outside the church door after Mass, rather than in the far-away gym-a shy person does not want to walk into a room full of strangers all by him/her-self. If that shy person gets up the nerve to walk into the room and get a cup of coffee, he/she would not feel comfortable striking up a conversation with a stranger, so he/she stands on the edge of the room drinking the coffee alone ,desperate to get out of that room and into comfort and safety…

Assume that the Parish is filled with extremely shy people and look for ways to make people feel welcome and WANTED. Shy people do not always feel wanted or included (yes, low self-esteem, lack of social skills, etc). If our goal is to keep our people in the Church we cannot throw up our hands and blame them for having needs different from our own.

 

[Memaw]

If I have somehow implied that the Mass should be changed, I apologize, I never meant that.

However, outside of the Mass we can do a better job of meeting the human needs for communication, warmth and fellowship. Perhaps making it easier to get involved by setting up tables at the entrances to the church for volunteer sign-up. In good weather set up the coffee and donuts outside the church door after Mass, rather than in the far-away gym-a shy person does not want to walk into a room full of strangers all by him/her-self. If that shy person gets up the nerve to walk into the room and get a cup of coffee, he/she would not feel comfortable striking up a conversation with a stranger, so he/she stands on the edge of the room drinking the coffee alone ,desperate to get out of that room and into comfort and safety…

Assume that the Parish is filled with extremely shy people and look for ways to make people feel welcome and WANTED. Shy people do not always feel wanted or included (yes, low self-esteem, lack of social skills, etc). If our goal is to keep our people in the Church we cannot throw up our hands and blame them for having needs different from our own.

You make it sound sooo doom and gloom, I truly doubt that there are that many shy people these days. And how are you going to spot these people as they walk in and out of Mass? We have visitors all the time and I don’t even know everyone in my parish and I have been here for 20 years or more. and believe me, I am NOT shy. I make friends everywhere I go, talk to most people, in the store etc. We have the donuts and coffee, we have greeters at the door, tables set up for different things etc. etc.
I am sorry but I still believe people use many things for an excuse for leaving the Church, I have heard them all and I still believe they do NOT know or understand their Holy Catholic Faith for some reason or other because if they did, NOTHING would pull them away. I think most Churches offer Bible study, some kind of Catechism classes for adults, RCIA, etc. even for Catholics that want to know their Catholic Faith better. There are soooo many ways if one is interested. BUT one HAS to be interested. I am NOT cold or indifferent to peoples feelings and would help anyone I could if need be, but to blame the Church for that is unfair,( I think). Like I said before Jesus did not say, Go out and start a fellowship church. But he did give us the Church, the Doctrine, the Sacraments,the Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scriptures, the Mass and HIMSELF. and promised HE would be with us till the End of the World. Why anyone would want to walk away from that is beyond me. I am sure Jesus was the friendliest person on earth, but HE still let those walk away that wanted to.

 

[Memaw]

While I understand what you’re saying, I suspect Jesus was (is) probably a pretty friendly fellow and not a “stick in the mud” like some of his Churches have turned out to be. While acknowledging him and worshiping is certainly important, I think he would say fellowship is just as important. “Love one another as I have loved you” is one of the greatest commandments right out of his own mouth. Certainly many Catholic Churches and non-Catholic ones have learned this lesson, but I suspect many have not, thus the exodus.

Love one another as I have Loved you, you bet, and Jesus did just that by teaching us the TRUTH and that is what HE wants us to do, to ‘go out to all the world and teach what I have taught you.’ The greatest love we can show another is to help them know and understand the TRUTHS of the Catholic Faith. True love is a choice, not an emotion. Emotions can fool us. If you read the Bible, you will see that Jesus, while having compassion, taught the Truth and if some walked away, he allowed their free will. He did NOT water down or change the Truth for the sake of fellowship. Friendship is great, I love it, but to exchange the Truth for an hour or so of fellowship is tragic. Like I said before I find plenty of “warmth and friendship” in the Catholic Church but I find JOY in worshiping my LORD in Mass. I do not consider “fellowship” as important as worship of The LORD at Mass. There is NO comparison.

 

[mikew262]

Love one another as I have Loved you, you bet, and Jesus did just that by teaching us the TRUTH and that is what HE wants us to do, to ‘go out to all the world and teach what I have taught you.’ The greatest love we can show another is to help them know and understand the TRUTHS of the Catholic Faith. True love is a choice, not an emotion. Emotions can fool us. If you read the Bible, you will see that Jesus, while having compassion, taught the Truth and if some walked away, he allowed their free will. He did NOT water down or change the Truth for the sake of fellowship. Friendship is great, I love it, but to exchange the Truth for an hour or so of fellowship is tragic. Like I said before I find plenty of “warmth and friendship” in the Catholic Church but I find JOY in worshiping my LORD in Mass. I do not consider “fellowship” as important as worship of The LORD at Mass. There is NO comparison.

Its all important. However, if you leave out the fellowship part, you are missing part of the picture that Jesus drew for us. Getting along with our fellow man (and woman) is one of his greatest lessons and by living that you are indirectly showing love for God.

I can’t disagree with your point that worshiping the Lord is the most important, but if one doesn’t have the other parts like fellowship, then the picture is incomplete.

 

[Memaw]

Its all important. However, if you leave out the fellowship part, you are missing part of the picture that Jesus drew for us. Getting along with our fellow man (and woman) is one of his greatest lessons and by living that you are indirectly showing love for God.

I can’t disagree with your point that worshiping the Lord is the most important, but if one doesn’t have the other parts like fellowship, then the picture is incomplete.

What I can’t seem to figure out is WHY some of you think the Catholic Church is soooooo unfriendly. That is an old protestant accusation, just like worshiping statues, not believing in the Bible, worshiping a wafer, etc,etc,etc and etc, False, false, false. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass will always be held in the greatest sacredness as well it should be, there is no disrespect or irreverence in Church, (or should be none). There is plenty of time and opportunity to socialize before and after Mass. The difference between us and the protestant denominations is we have the Sacred Mass, a time for total worship of God. If you come to Mass to visit, fellowship, with others, then you are there for the wrong reason. The Catholic Church DOES have plenty of fellowship, just not in the Church where Jesus, (in the tabernacle), is present always.

 

[qui_est_ce]

What I can’t seem to figure out is WHY some of you think the Catholic Church is soooooo unfriendly. That is an old protestant accusation, just like worshiping statues, not believing in the Bible, worshiping a wafer, etc,etc,etc and etc, False, false, false. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass will always be held in the greatest sacredness as well it should be, there is no disrespect or irreverence in Church, (or should be none). There is plenty of time and opportunity to socialize before and after Mass. The difference between us and the protestant denominations is we have the Sacred Mass, a time for total worship of God. If you come to Mass to visit, fellowship, with others, then you are there for the wrong reason. The Catholic Church DOES have plenty of fellowship, just not in the Church where Jesus, (in the tabernacle), is present always.

I’m with you on this, especially bolded. We are known to be extremely welcoming parish, especially by our Protestant guests. (probably they are surprised because of the myth you mentioned) I’m sure we’re not unique. YET, our pastor says some people leave the parish because we are not welcoming!! I’m willing to bet that the people who feel unwelcomed are the ones that are not involved, don’t say hello to or smile at anyone, and probably get to mass after it starts and leave before it ends. In every single parish I’ve lived in, and I’ve lived all over the US, the pastor and usually the associates as well, stand outside or in the vestibule and greet exiting parishioners with a smile and a handshake.

 

[awantz]

There are underlying reasons why I am not Catholic, but the main reason is, I don’t sense the presence of God/ Holy Spirit in the Catholic church like I do at my church.

 

[Memaw]

There are underlying reasons why I am not Catholic, but the main reason is, I don’t sense the presence of God/ Holy Spirit in the Catholic church like I do at my church.

Maybe your shutting HIM out because you’ve made up your mind you can’t “feel” Him there. I would suggest you go to a Catholic Church and just set there in the quiet of the Presence of Our Lord in the Tabernacle. Spend at least 15 minutes as often as you can and see what happens. But you need to relax and speak to Our Lord as though you are standing, (or setting) before HIM, And you ARE.