If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

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Memaw said:
Either there is a valid Consecration or their isn’t, can’t have it both ways. The people do NOT make the Consecration, Only a validly ordained Priest can. One that does have Apostolic Succession whether you like it or not. The truth is the truth even if NO ONE believes it.
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As I said, I have no wish to debate the nature of the ordained ministry with you, because all we can do to try to convince one-another is to start using more words in all-caps. It isn’t something that can be argued from the standpoint of human reason.

In any case, while I agree with you that there is such a thing as absolute truth, the fundamental disagreement we have is about HOW truth is discerned in this earthly life. Is truth determined by whatever the magisterium says? Is it what an ecumenical church council says (and if so, who would be invited to that church council-- Lutherans? Episcopalians? Roman Catholics? The Orthodox? Baptists? Methodists?) What would be the guidelines for the conversation? Is it what an individual with a Bible says? Is it what theologians say? If so, how do we deal with all the nuanced differences between theologians? Even Karl Rahner and Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustine would disagree with each other on any number of theological points. Or maybe we should just cast lots as they did in selecting Matthias to be an Apostle? Who has the authority to discern the Holy Spirit’s truth? And how do we arbitrate disagreements between those individuals or groups who come to different conclusions? There are challenges and problems with each method of discerning truth, because each of them involve humans who are sinful and imperfect.

As for me, I would say that truth can be revealed through all of the above, and that it is in the struggle to arbitrate disagreement that we come to find fuller knowledge of God. But until the last day when all things are revealed, much remains clouded in the Holy Mystery of God. In the meantime, we do the best we can, looking to our best minds and most pious souls for guidance, looking to the witness of God incarnate as we encounter him in the scriptures, and utilizing all the other tools we have at our disposal. And even then, there is not intellectual certainty about which truth wins out (though some possibilities may be far less likely than others), but rather a reality which can be grasped only in faith.
 
alliez said:
As I said, I have no wish to debate the nature of the ordained ministry with you, because all we can do to try to convince one-another is to start using more words in all-caps. It isn’t something that can be argued from the standpoint of human reason.

In any case, while I agree with you that there is such a thing as absolute truth, the fundamental disagreement we have is about HOW truth is discerned in this earthly life. Is truth determined by whatever the magisterium says? Is it what an ecumenical church council says (and if so, who would be invited to that church council-- Lutherans? Episcopalians? Roman Catholics? The Orthodox? Baptists? Methodists?) What would be the guidelines for the conversation? Is it what an individual with a Bible says? Is it what theologians say? If so, how do we deal with all the nuanced differences between theologians? Even Karl Rahner and Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustine would disagree with each other on any number of theological points. Or maybe we should just cast lots as they did in selecting Matthias to be an Apostle? Who has the authority to discern the Holy Spirit’s truth? And how do we arbitrate disagreements between those individuals or groups who come to different conclusions? There are challenges and problems with each method of discerning truth, because each of them involve humans who are sinful and imperfect.

As for me, I would say that truth can be revealed through all of the above, and that it is in the struggle to arbitrate disagreement that we come to find fuller knowledge of God. But until the last day when all things are revealed, much remains clouded in the Holy Mystery of God. In the meantime, we do the best we can, looking to our best minds and most pious souls for guidance, looking to the witness of God incarnate as we encounter him in the scriptures, and utilizing all the other tools we have at our disposal. And even then, there is not intellectual certainty about which truth wins out (though some possibilities may be far less likely than others), but rather a reality which can be grasped only in faith.
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Good answer!!! 👍
 
alliez said:
As I said, I have no wish to debate the nature of the ordained ministry with you, because all we can do to try to convince one-another is to start using more words in all-caps. It isn’t something that can be argued from the standpoint of human reason.

In any case, while I agree with you that there is such a thing as absolute truth, the fundamental disagreement we have is about HOW truth is discerned in this earthly life. Is truth determined by whatever the magisterium says? Is it what an ecumenical church council says (and if so, who would be invited to that church council-- Lutherans? Episcopalians? Roman Catholics? The Orthodox? Baptists? Methodists?) What would be the guidelines for the conversation? Is it what an individual with a Bible says? Is it what theologians say? If so, how do we deal with all the nuanced differences between theologians? Even Karl Rahner and Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustine would disagree with each other on any number of theological points. Or maybe we should just cast lots as they did in selecting Matthias to be an Apostle? Who has the authority to discern the Holy Spirit’s truth? And how do we arbitrate disagreements between those individuals or groups who come to different conclusions? There are challenges and problems with each method of discerning truth, because each of them involve humans who are sinful and imperfect.

As for me, I would say that truth can be revealed through all of the above, and that it is in the struggle to arbitrate disagreement that we come to find fuller knowledge of God. But until the last day when all things are revealed, much remains clouded in the Holy Mystery of God. In the meantime, we do the best we can, looking to our best minds and most pious souls for guidance, looking to the witness of God incarnate as we encounter him in the scriptures, and utilizing all the other tools we have at our disposal. And even then, there is not intellectual certainty about which truth wins out (though some possibilities may be far less likely than others), but rather a reality which can be grasped only in faith.
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If you agree there is such a thing as absolute truth, then how can you say anyone can discern for themselves what truth is. Thats the big problem already. There cannot be a Lutheran truth, an Episcopalian truth, a Baptist truth, a Methodist truth etc.,etc. 40, 000 times worth of truths. Jesus Christ established one Church, and history proves it is the Catholic Church. Say what you want, but in TRUTH, you cannot deny that all these others are breakaways in one way or another from the Holy Catholic Church. HIS Church cannot error, and it still has Apostolic Succession and will have it till the end of the world. Christ promised HE would be with HIS Church till the end of time and that the Gates of Hell would NOT prevail against it, and they haven’t in 2,000 years.

P.S. The CAPS are only ment to emphasize.
 
Memaw said:
If you agree there is such a thing as absolute truth, then how can you say anyone can discern for themselves what truth is. Thats the big problem already. There cannot be a Lutheran truth, an Episcopalian truth, a Baptist truth, a Methodist truth etc.,etc. 40, 000 times worth of truths. Jesus Christ established one Church, and history proves it is the Catholic Church. Say what you want, but in TRUTH, you cannot deny that all these others are breakaways in one way or another from the Holy Catholic Church. HIS Church cannot error, and it still has Apostolic Succession and will have it till the end of the world. Christ promised HE would be with HIS Church till the end of time and that the Gates of Hell would NOT prevail against it, and they haven’t in 2,000 years.

P.S. The CAPS are only ment to emphasize.
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I wonder if anybody has ever thought that maybe the TRUTH is Christianity as a whole. Hmm…?
 
mikew262 said:
I wonder if anybody has ever thought that maybe the TRUTH is Christianity as a whole. Hmm…?
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You mean as in “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way and the TRUTH and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’ John 14:6” ?? (emphasis supplied)
 
joe370 said:
If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

Elric…

I apologize for changing the topic! I simply couldn’t give you an unbiased viable reason, from a Christian or non-Catholic perspective for not being a Catholic! So, in lieu of that, I, as Memaw did, chose to give objective reasons for being a Catholic, being that this forum is Catholic by nature…

God bless…🙂
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A teacher at Christ the King sent this from her dad. I’m so glad someone who is not Catholic finally wrote something positive about the Catholic Church. Our church is not perfect because it’s people aren’t perfect. There is so much good about the church–a lot more good than bad–but the bad is more interesting to talk about and listen to. I am proud to be a Catholic. I always have been and always will be.

From: Powers, Claudia
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 1:33 PM
To: _All Teachers; Segrell, Chris
Subject: FW: Be Proud of Being Catholic

My Dad sent this to me. I thought it was a good, positive message.

Claudia
Code: 
                                    Be Proud of Being Catholic

        (Excerpts of an article written by Sam Miller, prominent Cleveland
        Jewish businessman - NOT Catholic)

        Why would newspapers carry on a vendetta on one of the most important
        institutions that we have today in the United States, namely the
        Catholic Church?

        Do you know - the Catholic Church educates 2.6 million students
        everyday at the cost to your Church of 10 billion dollars, and a
        savings on the other hand to the American taxpayer of 18 billion
        dollars. Your graduates go on to graduate studies at the rate of 92%,
        all at a cost to you. To the rest of the Americans it's free.

        The Church has 230 colleges and universities in the U.S. with an
        enrollment of 700,000 students. The Catholic Church has a non-profit
        hospital system of 637 hospitals, which account for hospital treatment
        of 1 out of every 5 people - not just Catholics - in the United States
        today.

        But the press is vindictive and trying to totally denigrate in every
        way the Catholic Church in this country. They have blamed the disease
        of pedophilia on the Catholic Church, which is as irresponsible as
        blaming adultery on the institution of marriage.

        Let me give you some figures that you as Catholics should know and
        remember. For example, 12% of the 300 Protestant clergy surveyed
        admitted to sexual intercourse with a parishioner; 38% acknowledged
        other inappropriate sexual contact. In a study by the United Methodist
        Church, 41.8 % of clergywomen reported unwanted sexual behavior; 17%
        of laywomen have been sexually harassed. Meanwhile, 1.7% of the
        Catholic clergy has been found guilty of pedophilia, while 10% of the
        Protestant ministers have been found guilty of pedophilia. This is not
        just a Catholic Problem.

        A study of American priests showed that most are happy in the
        priesthood and find it even better than they had expected, and that
        most, if given the choice, would choose to be priests again in face of
        all this obnoxious PR the church has been receiving.

        The Catholic Church is bleeding from self-inflicted wounds. The agony
        that Catholics have felt and suffered is not necessarily the fault of
        the Church. You have been hurt by a small number of wayward priests
        that have probably been totally weeded out by now.

        Walk with your shoulders high and you head higher. Be a proud member
        of the most important non-governmental agency in the United States.
        Then remember what Jeremiah said: "Stand by the roads, and look and
        ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is and walk in it, and
        find rest for your souls". Be proud to speak up for your faith with
        pride and reverence and learn what your Church does for all other
        religions. Be proud that you're a Catholic.
 
Memaw said:
How can it be when they don’t even agree within themselves as to what is true.
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I think the majority of Christian denominations probably agree on 80% of major doctrine. For all Christians, isn’t Jesus the TRUTH in the broadest sense of the word? I believe the vast majority of Christians agree on that.
 
mikew262 said:
I think the majority of Christian denominations probably agree on 80% of major doctrine. For all Christians, isn’t Jesus the TRUTH in the broadest sense of the word? I believe the vast majority of Christians agree on that.
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If you really believe that than you should watch “Journey Home” on EWTN Catholic Cable network on Monday nights at 7 pm, CST. And read the books by Patrick Madrid entitled, “Surprised by Truth” Book I,2,& 3. all are very interesting. Why do you suppose hundreds of protestant Ministers are coming into the Catholic Church after studying Church History, reading the Bible without blinders, and the Writings of the Early Church Fathers.? They are seeking the TRUTH and finding it in the Catholic Faith.
 
Memaw said:
If you really believe that than you should watch “Journey Home” on EWTN Catholic Cable network on Monday nights at 7 pm, CST. And read the books by Patrick Madrid entitled, “Surprised by Truth” Book I,2,& 3. all are very interesting. Why do you suppose hundreds of protestant Ministers are coming into the Catholic Church after studying Church History, reading the Bible without blinders, and the Writings of the Early Church Fathers.? They are seeking the TRUTH and finding it in the Catholic Faith.
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Some Protestant Ministers leave the Catholic Church to become Protestant Ministers.
 
Memaw said:
If you really believe that than you should watch “Journey Home” on EWTN Catholic Cable network on Monday nights at 7 pm, CST. And read the books by Patrick Madrid entitled, “Surprised by Truth” Book I,2,& 3. all are very interesting. Why do you suppose hundreds of protestant Ministers are coming into the Catholic Church after studying Church History, reading the Bible without blinders, and the Writings of the Early Church Fathers.? They are seeking the TRUTH and finding it in the Catholic Faith.
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Just as many (if not more) folks leave the Catholic Church than join, but unfortunately this trend applies to most of the main denominations a recent study showed.
 
mikew262 said:
Just as many (if not more) folks leave the Catholic Church than join, but unfortunately this trend applies to most of the main denominations a recent study showed.
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OH really, then why do we keep growing, Just get yourself a Catholic Almanac and see for yourself .
 
awantz said:
I’m not saying I agree with everything in this, but you asked for something so here one is. It’s a forum were people are telling their own stories.
truechristiansunite.yuku.com/forums/5
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I read a couple of these conversion stories and refuse to continue; I’m reminded of why I left the protestant world after reading some of these conversion stories.

“I hear so much nonsense about Mary, the mother of Jesus, from the Catholic and Orthodox false Christians, that I think we need to have an honest Biblical lesson on Mary. The simple fact is that the Holy Bible teaches that Mary, far from being the Queen of Heaven or Blessed Mother of God or some such fantasy, is actually probably roasting in hell this very moment.” **wow!!!
**

This sad yet indisputable fact is shown by the following incident:
Code: 
Quote:John 2:1: And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2. And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. 3. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
just LISTEN to the SATANIC CHANTING!

ALL Catholics are pervs, not just the priests!

Mary’s “faith” was a superficial and temporary sort. She soon abandoned any faith in Jesus for worldly pursuits. However, Jesus, out of his kindness, did provide for her nonetheless. Nice talk about the Mother Of God

Read some of the conversion stories I sent you; they don’t wreak of anger and malevolence. All I can say is WOW!!!:mad:
 
Madaglan said:
An interesting book is Close to God Far From Rome. It is the story of 50 Roman Catholic priests who converted to evangelical Christianity.
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After reading what awantz’s “recent study showed” I think I’ll pass.
 
joe370 said:
I read a couple of these conversion stories and refuse to continue; I’m reminded of why I left the protestant world after reading some of these conversion stories.

“I hear so much nonsense about Mary, the mother of Jesus, from the Catholic and Orthodox false Christians, that I think we need to have an honest Biblical lesson on Mary. The simple fact is that the Holy Bible teaches that Mary, far from being the Queen of Heaven or Blessed Mother of God or some such fantasy, is actually probably roasting in hell this very moment.” **wow!!!
**

This sad yet indisputable fact is shown by the following incident:
Code: 
Quote:John 2:1: And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2. And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. 3. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
just LISTEN to the SATANIC CHANTING!

ALL Catholics are pervs, not just the priests!

Mary’s “faith” was a superficial and temporary sort. She soon abandoned any faith in Jesus for worldly pursuits. However, Jesus, out of his kindness, did provide for her nonetheless. Nice talk about the Mother Of God

Read some of the conversion stories I sent you; they don’t wreak of anger and malevolence. All I can say is WOW!!!:mad:
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Your personal page says you are Catholic. Then, why do you talk about Mary this way? I am not Catholic and going by what you wrote, I have more love and respect for Mary than you do. I clicked on your link and I tried to look at the converts, stories, but every time I clicked on a name to read their stories it said the page can not be displayed or something like that.
 
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