A
awantz
Guest
I wasn’t trying.
If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2
- Status
P
pyropam
Guest
This thread as well as many others seem to be written only to condemn other Christians.
I’m Catholic, to me that means we are to set a good example of how Christians should worship and behave, not condemn.
You will never lead a single soul to the TRUE CHURCH if you continue to post things like this.
I’m Catholic, to me that means we are to set a good example of how Christians should worship and behave, not condemn.
You will never lead a single soul to the TRUE CHURCH if you continue to post things like this.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello pyropam,
I haven’t read all of the posts here but I do like a lively debate…Now, I’ll have to go back and see what you are “talking” about…
There is nothing wrong with a lively debate, some people have strong opinions here, and everyone has a different way of communicating. We are talking about religion, after all and you know what they say about religion and politics.
Additionally, sometimes people strike a nerve in someone here and sometimes people are simply having a bad day.
One things for sure, when we reduce things to writing, it becomes harder to determine someone’s demeanor, their mood, their attitude and so on and sometimes the message is misinterpreted.
I have read thread titles here for example, that I find very offensive and they are still here… I’m just one voice, CAF isn’t about me…
Who’s to say what will or will not lead someone to the Catholic Church, God works in mysterious ways.
I do know however, that when I start a“nice” thread, no one here replies to it, can you explain why that happens?
The good news is that we have excellent moderators here who make sure that things don’t get out of hand and do not go beyond a “lively debate”.
Do you have a comment related to the topic of this thread?
Thank you for your post.
Peace
BTW, I’m not suggesting that you are giving bad advise, we should always try to be kind, respectful, forgiving and loving towards one another… I’m just trying to put things into context…I like context.
I also like to try and “spark” a discussion, that’s all it is, so please don’t take things the wrong way.
God bless…
J
joe370
Guest
—Perhaps I am; I do my best to evaluate each particular denomination by comparing it to what the bible says. However I am only human.
You said, *“Your opion is stricktly that. It’s your opinion.” *and I totally agree; I would never try and force my beliefs on anyone. Like I said, it wasn’t until I actually read the catechism of the C.C., the writings of all the church leaders starting with Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John and ending with Pope John Paul 2, and started talking to catholic’s in general, that I realized how unified the C.C. really was regardless of the wheat mixed in with the chaff; the apostates mixed in with the great saints through the centuries (a problem found in all churches regardless of denomination), and how the C.C., the codifier of the bible, espouses everything the bible says; I am always very impartial, and I think that’s the key to a successful journey to “truth” which of course is Jesus.
Absolutely, both Jews and Gentiles that picked up their crosses, repented, were baptized and followed Jesus and His apostolic church were, according to the bible, of the same body.
*And in the same Epistle he describes the Church as one body with many members distinct among themselves, but one with Christ their head: “For in one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free” (1 Corinthians 12:13). *…
All churches at this time were apostolic, and eventually renamed catholic out of necessity, due to all the heretical churches popping up claiming to be the true Christian Apostolic church, e.g. Marcion’s church among a bevy of others; for several generations, Marcion’s church survived. It is ironic that perhaps one of the most influential of figures in Church History is also one of the most reviled heretics. Although his ideas were completely rejected by the Apostolic Fathers of the second-century church with good reason, and trust me you would agree, the very need to reject them forced the second-century church to consider, clarify, and consolidate its beliefs about important issues: the contents of the Christian Bible (the Canon) which again out of necessity forced the the church to start going by the word katholikos, which simply means universal, by the end of the 1st century, and to codify the bible at the end of the 4th century, which finally enabled the church, unburdened, to follow Jesus’ commands: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:19
If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. John 14:15-18
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you…John 14:23-26
In the 1st century, well, with the exception of the aforementioned apocryphal and gnostic sects; which were always quashed, almost as soon as they started, there were no protestant denominations per se, and they absolutely formed one body with many members distinct among themselves, with Jesus as the Head of that Mystical Body, and they were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free." The plan of unity was right on course!
Jesus said “I am the way the truth and the life…”—and there can be only one truth, just as these 1st century Christians practiced. This unity went unbroken, even through the 11th century Eastern Orthodox schism, right up until the reformation, when Martin Luther, who lodged a very legitimate complaint, was excommunicated for attempting to remove books from both the old and new testament. Trust me, this was a very difficult conclusion to draw considering the fact that I was Lutheran; albeit not a practising one.
I hope and pray everyday for unity between the Catholic Church and the assorted Protestant Churches, but, I think the division, dissension and disunity that exists within the protestant churches must first be rectified, again just my humble opinion, nothing more!.
The stark facts are that within the protestant churches and the non-denominational churches (which my own sister belongs), there are, without a doubt competing truths on one level or another, and there is no getting around that. However, I would never presume to say that protestants (for lack of a better word) aren’t part of Jesus’ mystical Body, the Church, which is the Church of the Living God and the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.
Like I said, and you reiterated, All we can do is what Jesus asks of us: “Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” Matthew 22:37 ---- and if people do that and find themselves, free of any lingering doubts in a church other than the C.C., then your home!!!
Just thought I would throw this out there: As the bible says, Truth is one and it is a person, the person of Jesus Christ:“I am the way, and the truth, and the life.” John 14:6 --and Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, who is guiding the church in perpetuity. If the Church is the House of the Living God and the pillar and foundation of truth, doesn’t that mean that the church, which is the House of the Living God, is the pillar and foundation of Jesus? Finding that church is a very subjective, highly spiritual, moral, and intellectual journey, and should be respected no matter what!!!
For me personally, the apostolic church is indeed the catholic church of the 1st century, the 4th century, the 11th century and the 21st century, simply because Jesus told the apostolic church that he would be with them forever; he would never leave them orphans, and that the gates of hell (the anti Christ, the church’s worse enemy) would never Prevail and that it would be built on the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the irreplaceable cornerstone --(solid Rock). The C.C. is the only church that can trace its descent all the way back to the apostles, so these passages, by logical deduction must be the apostolic church, again in my personal opinion.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Ephesians 2:19-20
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ,** the Son of the living God.” “Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven.” Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.” Matthew 16:16-20
“Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them…” Acts 20:28-30
The Holy Spirit/Paraclete seems to have several different roles or functions according to John’s Gospel:
- as a companion, to be with the disciples “forever,” after Jesus is gone (14:16-18; cf. 1 John 3:24; 4:13)
- as a teacher, who will “remind” the disciples of Jesus’ own words and teachings (14:26)
- as a legal witness, who will give “testimony” to the disciples and the world about Jesus (15:26)
- as a judge, who will “convict” (or “convince”?) the world “about sin and righteousness and judgment” (16:8-11)
- as a revealer, who will “guide” the disciples to the “truth” about God and Jesus (16:13-15; cf. 1 John 5:6-8)
**
J
joe370
Guest
P.S. I am often reminded of my fiancées favorite passage in the Bible, God rest her soul, when ever I witness strife among Christians:
“Love is patient; love is kind
and envies no one.
Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;
never selfish, not quick to take offense.
There is nothing love cannot face;
there is no limit to its faith,
its hope, and endurance.
In a word, there are three things
that last forever: faith, hope, and love;
but the greatest of them all is love.”
“Love is patient; love is kind
and envies no one.
Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;
never selfish, not quick to take offense.
There is nothing love cannot face;
there is no limit to its faith,
its hope, and endurance.
In a word, there are three things
that last forever: faith, hope, and love;
but the greatest of them all is love.”
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Nice reminder, I have read this many times over the years…thanks…God is love!P.S. I am often reminded of my fiancées favorite passage in the Bible, God rest her soul, when ever I witness strife among Christians:
“Love is patient; love is kind
and envies no one.
Love is never boastful, nor conceited, nor rude;
never selfish, not quick to take offense.
There is nothing love cannot face;
there is no limit to its faith,
its hope, and endurance.
In a word, there are three things
that last forever: faith, hope, and love;
but the greatest of them all is love.”
M
Memaw
Guest
I ment what I said, a real christian wouldn’t spread lies about anyone or any one else’s religion, and from what x-protestants and other protestants tell me they are taught to spread these lies about the Catholic Church, event tho they know they are NOT true. I have tried my best to tell some protestants I know that they are not true but they turn a deaf ear as thats what they were taught to believe. That is wrong and needs to be stopped. They are fighting against God and one day they will realize that, either in this world or the next. True unity means everyone believes the same TRUTHS. The way Jesus wants, THY will be done.
J
joe370
Guest
I’m on my way to work, just wanted to say—I agree with you Memaw!!!
This video is so sobering; let us aspire to be one:thumbsup:
:thumbsupyoutube.com/watch?v=lu3S8HceQlU
G
GraceDK
Guest
Hey Jimmy.
I am a convert to Catholicism and plan on remaining in the church… after a long struggle where I was sometimes tempted to leave.
At times I am rather still sceptical of the Church I am sad to say. See, for me the Church is not a library and if there is “Fullness of Truth” then the proof of that is not all the wise books in the world but churches on parish level that bear good fruit. My nr. one stumbling block with Catholicism was and remains that I have asyet to see the Church that I read about in Acts and that Paul describes in the 1. Corinthians… It seems that those scolars are right that say that the more leadership and hierarchy that came into the Church and the more time that went by, the less supernatural the Church became in the first centuries…
where are the ministries, yes, the ministries… I am not talking about sweeping the floor but about prophets, interpreters of tongues, people with words of knowlege, people who heal the sick… where are the miracles… where are the mighty deeds… where is the zeal and enthusiasm… why dont Catholics seem to burn… where is the real life-changing preaching… where is the interest from the part of the laity…? they seem to have been made so passive… Where is the real fellowship that cares for one another?
and then… when I raise these issues I always seem to get the same answer: that something is wrong with me… that I should comtemplate the Eucharist with gratitude and otherwise keep quiet or that maybe I should just go to the Pentecostals up the street…
For me the Church is the here and now present Church in my town… and apart from the Sacraments I dont see anything churchy about it. …
And Jimmy… dont argue with me… I am too tired.
I am a convert to Catholicism and plan on remaining in the church… after a long struggle where I was sometimes tempted to leave.
At times I am rather still sceptical of the Church I am sad to say. See, for me the Church is not a library and if there is “Fullness of Truth” then the proof of that is not all the wise books in the world but churches on parish level that bear good fruit. My nr. one stumbling block with Catholicism was and remains that I have asyet to see the Church that I read about in Acts and that Paul describes in the 1. Corinthians… It seems that those scolars are right that say that the more leadership and hierarchy that came into the Church and the more time that went by, the less supernatural the Church became in the first centuries…
where are the ministries, yes, the ministries… I am not talking about sweeping the floor but about prophets, interpreters of tongues, people with words of knowlege, people who heal the sick… where are the miracles… where are the mighty deeds… where is the zeal and enthusiasm… why dont Catholics seem to burn… where is the real life-changing preaching… where is the interest from the part of the laity…? they seem to have been made so passive… Where is the real fellowship that cares for one another?
and then… when I raise these issues I always seem to get the same answer: that something is wrong with me… that I should comtemplate the Eucharist with gratitude and otherwise keep quiet or that maybe I should just go to the Pentecostals up the street…
For me the Church is the here and now present Church in my town… and apart from the Sacraments I dont see anything churchy about it. …
And Jimmy… dont argue with me… I am too tired.
M
Memaw
Guest
—Perhaps I am; I do my best to evaluate each particular denomination by comparing it to what the bible says. However I am only human.
You said, *“Your opion is stricktly that. It’s your opinion.” *and I totally agree; I would never try and force my beliefs on anyone. Like I said, it wasn’t until I actually read the catechism of the C.C., the writings of all the church leaders starting with Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John and ending with Pope John Paul 2, and started talking to catholic’s in general, that I realized how unified the C.C. really was regardless of the wheat mixed in with the chaff; the apostates mixed in with the great saints through the centuries (a problem found in all churches regardless of denomination), and how the C.C., the codifier of the bible, espouses everything the bible says; I am always very impartial, and I think that’s the key to a successful journey to “truth” which of course is Jesus.
Absolutely, both Jews and Gentiles that picked up their crosses, repented, were baptized and followed Jesus and His apostolic church were, according to the bible, of the same body.
*And in the same Epistle he describes the Church as one body with many members distinct among themselves, but one with Christ their head: “For in one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free” (1 Corinthians 12:13). *…
All churches at this time were apostolic, and eventually renamed catholic out of necessity, due to all the heretical churches popping up claiming to be the true Christian Apostolic church, e.g. Marcion’s church among a bevy of others; for several generations, Marcion’s church survived. It is ironic that perhaps one of the most influential of figures in Church History is also one of the most reviled heretics. Although his ideas were completely rejected by the Apostolic Fathers of the second-century church with good reason, and trust me you would agree, the very need to reject them forced the second-century church to consider, clarify, and consolidate its beliefs about important issues: the contents of the Christian Bible (the Canon) which again out of necessity forced the the church to start going by the word katholikos, which simply means universal, by the end of the 1st century, and to codify the bible at the end of the 4th century, which finally enabled the church, unburdened, to follow Jesus’ commands: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:19
If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. John 14:15-18
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you…John 14:23-26
In the 1st century, well, with the exception of the aforementioned apocryphal and gnostic sects; which were always quashed, almost as soon as they started, there were no protestant denominations per se, and they absolutely formed one body with many members distinct among themselves, with Jesus as the Head of that Mystical Body, and they were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free." The plan of unity was right on course!
Jesus said “I am the way the truth and the life…”—and there can be only one truth, just as these 1st century Christians practiced. This unity went unbroken, even through the 11th century Eastern Orthodox schism, right up until the reformation, when Martin Luther, who lodged a very legitimate complaint, was excommunicated for attempting to remove books from both the old and new testament. Trust me, this was a very difficult conclusion to draw considering the fact that I was Lutheran; albeit not a practising one.
I hope and pray everyday for unity between the Catholic Church and the assorted Protestant Churches, but, I think the division, dissension and disunity that exists within the protestant churches must first be rectified, again just my humble opinion, nothing more!.
The stark facts are that within the protestant churches and the non-denominational churches (which my own sister belongs), there are, without a doubt competing truths on one level or another, and there is no getting around that. However, I would never presume to say that protestants (for lack of a better word) aren’t part of Jesus’ mystical Body, the Church, which is the Church of the Living God and the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.
Like I said, and you reiterated, All we can do is what Jesus asks of us: “Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” Matthew 22:37 ---- and if people do that and find themselves, free of any lingering doubts in a church other than the C.C., then your home!!!
Just thought I would throw this out there: As the bible says, Truth is one and it is a person, the person of Jesus Christ:“I am the way, and the truth, and the life.” John 14:6 --and Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, who is guiding the church in perpetuity. If the Church is the House of the Living God and the pillar and foundation of truth, doesn’t that mean that the church, which is the House of the Living God, is the pillar and foundation of Jesus? Finding that church is a very subjective, highly spiritual, moral, and intellectual journey, and should be respected no matter what!!!
For me personally, the apostolic church is indeed the catholic church of the 1st century, the 4th century, the 11th century and the 21st century, simply because Jesus told the apostolic church that he would be with them forever; he would never leave them orphans, and that the gates of hell (the anti Christ, the church’s worse enemy) would never Prevail and that it would be built on the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the irreplaceable cornerstone --(solid Rock). The C.C. is the only church that can trace its descent all the way back to the apostles, so these passages, by logical deduction must be the apostolic church, again in my personal opinion.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Ephesians 2:19-20
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ,** the Son of the living God.” “Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven.” Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.” Matthew 16:16-20
“Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them…” Acts 20:28-30
The Holy Spirit/Paraclete seems to have several different roles or functions according to John’s Gospel:
God bless awantz…
- as a companion, to be with the disciples “forever,” after Jesus is gone (14:16-18; cf. 1 John 3:24; 4:13)
- as a teacher, who will “remind” the disciples of Jesus’ own words and teachings (14:26)
- as a legal witness, who will give “testimony” to the disciples and the world about Jesus (15:26)
- as a judge, who will “convict” (or “convince”?) the world “about sin and righteousness and judgment” (16:8-11)
- as a revealer, who will “guide” the disciples to the “truth” about God and Jesus (16:13-15; cf. 1 John 5:6-8)
Beautifully said, and anyone who is open to the truth can find this out for themselves just like you did.
In a letter to the Smyrnaeans in the year 110 A. D. St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote, “You must all follow the bishop, (the Pope, the Bishop of Rome), as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery, (other Bishops), as you would the Apostles. Reverence the deacons as you would the command of God. Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop, or by one whom he appoints, (priests). Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. Nor is it permitted without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate the agape, ( Mass); but whatever he approve, this too is pleasing to God, so that whatever is done will be secure and valid.” That is the first ‘written’ record we have of Christ’s Church being called Catholic Church although the name must have been used much before that. You can read this and much more in “The Faith of the Early Fathers”, by William A Jurgens. A 3 volume set, well worth reading. Thanks Joe and God Bless
Q
qui_est_ce
Guest
—Perhaps I am; I do my best to evaluate each particular denomination by comparing it to what the bible says. However I am only human.
You said, *“Your opion is stricktly that. It’s your opinion.” *and I totally agree; I would never try and force my beliefs on anyone. Like I said, it wasn’t until I actually read the catechism of the C.C., the writings of all the church leaders starting with Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John and ending with Pope John Paul 2, and started talking to catholic’s in general, that I realized how unified the C.C. really was regardless of the wheat mixed in with the chaff; the apostates mixed in with the great saints through the centuries (a problem found in all churches regardless of denomination), and how the C.C., the codifier of the bible, espouses everything the bible says; I am always very impartial, and I think that’s the key to a successful journey to “truth” which of course is Jesus.
Absolutely, both Jews and Gentiles that picked up their crosses, repented, were baptized and followed Jesus and His apostolic church were, according to the bible, of the same body.
*And in the same Epistle he describes the Church as one body with many members distinct among themselves, but one with Christ their head: “For in one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free” (1 Corinthians 12:13). *…
All churches at this time were apostolic, and eventually renamed catholic out of necessity, due to all the heretical churches popping up claiming to be the true Christian Apostolic church, e.g. Marcion’s church among a bevy of others; for several generations, Marcion’s church survived. It is ironic that perhaps one of the most influential of figures in Church History is also one of the most reviled heretics. Although his ideas were completely rejected by the Apostolic Fathers of the second-century church with good reason, and trust me you would agree, the very need to reject them forced the second-century church to consider, clarify, and consolidate its beliefs about important issues: the contents of the Christian Bible (the Canon) which again out of necessity forced the the church to start going by the word katholikos, which simply means universal, by the end of the 1st century, and to codify the bible at the end of the 4th century, which finally enabled the church, unburdened, to follow Jesus’ commands: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 28:19
If you love me, you will obey what I command. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. John 14:15-18
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me. "All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you…John 14:23-26
In the 1st century, well, with the exception of the aforementioned apocryphal and gnostic sects; which were always quashed, almost as soon as they started, there were no protestant denominations per se, and they absolutely formed one body with many members distinct among themselves, with Jesus as the Head of that Mystical Body, and they were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free." The plan of unity was right on course!
Jesus said “I am the way the truth and the life…”—and there can be only one truth, just as these 1st century Christians practiced. This unity went unbroken, even through the 11th century Eastern Orthodox schism, right up until the reformation, when Martin Luther, who lodged a very legitimate complaint, was excommunicated for attempting to remove books from both the old and new testament. Trust me, this was a very difficult conclusion to draw considering the fact that I was Lutheran; albeit not a practising one.
I hope and pray everyday for unity between the Catholic Church and the assorted Protestant Churches, but, I think the division, dissension and disunity that exists within the protestant churches must first be rectified, again just my humble opinion, nothing more!.
The stark facts are that within the protestant churches and the non-denominational churches (which my own sister belongs), there are, without a doubt competing truths on one level or another, and there is no getting around that. However, I would never presume to say that protestants (for lack of a better word) aren’t part of Jesus’ mystical Body, the Church, which is the Church of the Living God and the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.
Like I said, and you reiterated, All we can do is what Jesus asks of us: “Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” Matthew 22:37 ---- and if people do that and find themselves, free of any lingering doubts in a church other than the C.C., then your home!!!
Just thought I would throw this out there: As the bible says, Truth is one and it is a person, the person of Jesus Christ:“I am the way, and the truth, and the life.” John 14:6 --and Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit, who is guiding the church in perpetuity. If the Church is the House of the Living God and the pillar and foundation of truth, doesn’t that mean that the church, which is the House of the Living God, is the pillar and foundation of Jesus? Finding that church is a very subjective, highly spiritual, moral, and intellectual journey, and should be respected no matter what!!!
For me personally, the apostolic church is indeed the catholic church of the 1st century, the 4th century, the 11th century and the 21st century, simply because Jesus told the apostolic church that he would be with them forever; he would never leave them orphans, and that the gates of hell (the anti Christ, the church’s worse enemy) would never Prevail and that it would be built on the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the irreplaceable cornerstone --(solid Rock). The C.C. is the only church that can trace its descent all the way back to the apostles, so these passages, by logical deduction must be the apostolic church, again in my personal opinion.
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Ephesians 2:19-20
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ,** the Son of the living God.” “Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven.” Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.” Matthew 16:16-20
“Take heed unto yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit hath made you bishops, to feed the church of the Lord which he purchased with his own blood. I know that after my departing grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them…” Acts 20:28-30
The Holy Spirit/Paraclete seems to have several different roles or functions according to John’s Gospel:
God bless awantz…
- as a companion, to be with the disciples “forever,” after Jesus is gone (14:16-18; cf. 1 John 3:24; 4:13)
- as a teacher, who will “remind” the disciples of Jesus’ own words and teachings (14:26)
- as a legal witness, who will give “testimony” to the disciples and the world about Jesus (15:26)
- as a judge, who will “convict” (or “convince”?) the world “about sin and righteousness and judgment” (16:8-11)
- as a revealer, who will “guide” the disciples to the “truth” about God and Jesus (16:13-15; cf. 1 John 5:6-8)
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Sadly this has been my experience with SOME Protestants. I participated in a non-denominational Bible study for several years. I didn’t realize non-de-nominational was a sect. Over and over they told me Catholics weren’t Christians, and Catholics are allowed to read the Bible. They also told me that they believed SOME Catholics MIGHT be saved! I stayed because I wanted them to see what Catholics really believed through me. But their hearts were so hardened, and they thought they knew more about what the Catholic Church teaches than I. So I finally left. I hope I was able to plant a little seed.
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Jimmy_B
Guest
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Memaw
Guest
Are you listening to what they are saying about Catholics?? I would never get on a protestant forum and even think of saying things like that against them. I am NOT condemning anyone, thats not my place. but I am defending Catholic teachings and the Catholic Faith. I believe some of them on here are just to slam the Catholic Church.
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joe370
Guest
Memaw is right. Seriously, show me one post that condemns protestantism, even on a minuscule level! Visit a protestant forum, declare yourself to be a catholic and watch the epithets fly.
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thecoach
Guest
This is, however, the NON-Catholic thread!
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celticcrusader
Guest
your right ! after reading most of the posts I think some of us just forgot which forum we are in.
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trustinyou
Guest
Hello Namesake…so who on earth has infallablity when it comes to faith and morals…would Jesus leave us without some sort of authority,and you cant say the bible,because every denomination teaches different out of the same(almost) bible…and what are the better ways?..I’ll bet you didnt know this…about 5 million catholics were taken in the refromation,…but 9 million were added the same time in mexico due to the intercession of OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE…do a google search on the scientific study of OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE and find out some amazing facts…
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Memaw
Guest
I didn’t!! The question is, “If you are a Christian what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic.?” That is an honest question and does not give anyone the right to slam the Catholic Faith. To express your reasons in a respectful way is one thing but some use this as a means to express their anti-Catholic views, and I think that is whats wrong with this thread. And I believe we as Catholics on a Catholic Forum have every right to defend our Faith.
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Memaw
Guest
So that gives them the right to slam Catholics, I don’t think soooooo.
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