If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2

[mikew262]

Would the Holy Spirit guide them into error and heresy? And hatred for HIS One, True Church? I hardly think so. Christ promised the Holy Spirit would be with HIS Church and keep it in the Truth. God never abandons his children and even when we are in sin and error the Holy Spirit is there to try to bring us back. But that doesn’t change the fact that Christ established ONE Church and that is the Catholic Church, to teach, govern and Sanctify, for all men, for all time, and it is HIS WILL the we all follow Him in the fullness of TRUTH. It would be interesting to know how many protestants have heard the truth of Christ’s Catholic Church but chose to refuse it or ignore it or whatever.

So you are saying there is no way Christian Protestant Churches and it’s members are guided by the Holy Spirit? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[mikew262]

**Quote:
Originally Posted by mikew262
Who is to say the Holy Spirit doesn’t guide the Protestant Churchs as well? Not I. **

i would say this: Jesus said a house divided is a house destroyed.

i can not understand perhaps you can explain this. if the Lord promise the Spirit of Truth to His Church, how do you reconcile this with many other believers in Christ being against this Church. pretty much what the CC believes to be true, protestants say is false.

Can the Lord come against Himself? or do you think is just the way of disobedient men. who reject authority.

do you truly believe they can understant SS?

remember this the CC is first, men decided to leave to follow their own ways. anyone leaving this Church is in disobedience to Christ who built One Church.

i am not say they will not come back some day, but the way it is they are in disobedience.

:knight2: :knight2: :knight2:

Everybody tends to look at the differences between the Catholic Church and the Protestant Churches, but nobody looks at what they have in common. We all believe Christ died for our sins, and that he was resurrected. We believe the in the Bible, but our interpretations may vary. This is big stuff that we have in common. We may be divided in how we worship Christ, but the fact that we all do worship him says alot. Are we really a house divided? We are all Christians.

 

[Memaw]

I believe that the Holy Spirit meets us where we are. We do have the fullness of Truth in our Catholic faith, but, we as human beings do not know the full Truth. Through the Sacraments we are constantly being given the opportunities to develop a deepening awareness of the Truth.
The Truth is God is Love. The Sacraments, especially the Eucharist, can open us to more of an understanding of God’ Love. To receive the Eucharist, we must first be baptized, which gives us the first experience of the Holy Spirit. This Baptism is just the first step towards our maturation in knowing God.
I was told as a child that the Catholic faith is the one true Church that Christ created, but I did not know it until the age of 58. To know our Catholic faith comes from Christ is a gift of God’s Grace which is an expression of His Love. I did not ask for this Truth. I was given it.
The Holy Spirit works throughout all of creation constantly calling us to first and foremost, Love one another. Any thought, feeling, or action that does not resonate love does not resonate with God’s Love, regardless of what faith we practice.

You are saying just about the same thing I said. The Holy Spirit will bring all to the fullness of the Truth if we just allow Him to work within our souls, mind and hearts. Monsignor Chiado always says. “The longest journey we will ever make is the 12 inches between our head and our heart.” For some it takes longer to make that journey but your proof that the Holy Spirit NEVER gives up.

 

[SedesDomi]

**If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2 **

There are many reasons people who are Christian are not also Catholic, but the reasons all boil down to the fact that God has not chosen to reveal Him/Her/It/Themselves to him/her/them via the Catholic Church.

 

[guanophore]

So you are saying there is no way Christian Protestant Churches and it’s members are guided by the Holy Spirit? Am I understanding you correctly?

The Church teaches otherwise…

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
vatican.va/archive/hist_c…entium_en.html

1. Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10*) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11*)
   This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”.(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity. . . .
2. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ’s disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth. . .
3. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.

DECREE ON ECUMENISM
UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO

vatican.va/archive/hist_c…gratio_en.html

But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

 

[mikew262]

The Church teaches otherwise…

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH
LUMEN GENTIUM
vatican.va/archive/hist_c…entium_en.html

1. Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10*) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11*)
   This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”.(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity. . . .
2. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ’s disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth. . .
3. This Sacred Council wishes to turn its attention firstly to the Catholic faithful. Basing itself upon Sacred Scripture and Tradition, it teaches that the Church, now sojourning on earth as an exile, is necessary for salvation. Christ, present to us in His Body, which is the Church, is the one Mediator and the unique way of salvation. In explicit terms He Himself affirmed the necessity of faith and baptism(124) and thereby affirmed also the necessity of the Church, for through baptism as through a door men enter the Church. Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.

DECREE ON ECUMENISM
UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIO

vatican.va/archive/hist_c…gratio_en.html

But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.

It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.

Thank you. If one follows Christ and his teachings, the Holy Spirit is involved, no matter what method of worship you use.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Everybody tends to look at the differences between the Catholic Church and the Protestant Churches, but nobody looks at what they have in common. We all believe Christ died for our sins, and that he was resurrected. We believe the in the Bible, but our interpretations may vary. This is big stuff that we have in common. We may be divided in how we worship Christ, but the fact that we all do worship him says alot. Are we really a house divided? We are all Christians.

i am not sure if you are catholic or other. my point is the desobedience to Christ’s Church is disobedience to Christ Himself. it is an offense to Him.

yesterday the readings were Psalm 50:16-23 St mathew 6:18-22.

**“I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **

 

[NotWorthy]

Thank you. If one follows Christ and his teachings, the Holy Spirit is involved, no matter what method of worship you use.

But what if one rejects the very teachings that Christ instituted. I know some do out of ignorance, but others outright reject everything, ignoring all the facts in front of them.

 

[Memaw]

**I’m rom. Catholic ever since birth. Mom married after divorce again – this time a very Christian protestant. She and my brother became Lutherans. I stayed Catholic for quite a few reasons.
First of all, my new dad, even though he was very religious and his brother was a Lutheran priest, never understood all about the holy Virgin Mary – mother of Jesus, not took he the Holy Communion as what it is. As a child of 11 (I am nearly 70 now) this disappointed me ever so much. Besides, he thought, Church must be democracy. I thought, it’s ridiculous to ask for democracy in matters between God and us.
**

So glad you were able to keep your Catholic Faith, even at such a young age. What a Blessing. Were you able to attend Mass all along too? Did your Mom and siblings ever return to the Catholic Faith? I had a cousin that left the Catholic Faith and became a Southern Baptist, and when I was much younger she tried to get me to join her church, but I could never get into the “accept Jesus Christ as your personal Savior” thing. I kept telling her that Jesus has always been my Savior and everyone else’s too. At that time, the S.Baptist was very anti-Catholic. I kept my Catholic Faith and she watched as my children were Baptized, taught and made their First Holy Communion. I am sooo happy to say she came back to the Catholic Faith before she died.

 

[Memaw]

Thank you. If one follows Christ and his teachings, the Holy Spirit is involved, no matter what method of worship you use.

Yes, The Holy Spirit is involved but HE is always trying to lead you to the FULLNESS of Truth. And so many do follow HIM into the Catholic Church. Just watch Journey Home on EWTN, Monday nights at 7 pm, CST.

 

[Memaw]

So you are saying there is no way Christian Protestant Churches and it’s members are guided by the Holy Spirit? Am I understanding you correctly?

I didn’t say that at all, yes, you are misunderstanding what I said, Read the line, God never abandons HIS children and even when we are in sin and error, the Holy Spirit is there to try to guide us back. To the fullness of TRUTH. It is Jesus Christ’s will that we ALL be ONE in HIM. If you read the Bible correctly you can’t help but see that.

 

[NotWorthy]

I didn’t say that at all, yes, you are misunderstanding what I said, Read the line, God never abandons HIS children and even when we are in sin and error, the Holy Spirit is there to try to guide us back. To the fullness of TRUTH. It is Jesus Christ’s will that we ALL be ONE in HIM. If you read the Bible correctly you can’t help but see that.

Just look at the story of Israel after Solomon’s reign. Israel (the 10 northern tribes) fell away from the kingdom, even violating God commandment in worshipping in Jerusalem and setting up their own means and places of worship (Dan and Bethel, I believe?). But God still kept His promises to his children, however wayward they became. He still sent His prophets to them, trying to guide them back into His Covenant.

On a side note, I feel a sense of “deja vu” in reading what Israel did to their means of worship after the breakup of the 12 tribes and what Protestants (well, most of them) have done to the Mass as they broke away form the Catholic Church.

 

[Bruno_Schulz]

Did your Mom and siblings ever return to the Catholic Faith?..I am sooo happy to say she came back to the Catholic Faith before she died.

**Good so. However, Mom could not, as she - having married again after divorce, was suspended from the Church. At he bottom of her heart, as she told me over and over again, she stayed RomCatholic. For peace and solidarity, I mostly attended the Lutheran Church, namely as the brother of my second father war a Lutheran priest. Until I was grown up and married, I mostly went to this church.
I am Catholic because I’m convinced and I know, that Jesus founded this one Church on St.Peter. Jesus did not establish several Churches. Besides; reading Luther one finds a great deal of mistakes and misinterpretations. To all of it, I noticed as child the great difference that hurt me terribly.
But however: A Lutheran Christian who owns and gives love to his next, is in any case a better Christian than Catholics who hate their next und are far from forgiving.

Our family is traditionally friends to the respective Rabbi in the Synagogue next door to us. Seeing his family who is so loving an friendly and matching the situation to some families in our Catholic parish, I said to my wife: I think they are the better Christians **

 

[SedesDomi]

All Christians are, by definition, Catholic.

Case closed.

 

[Harpazo]

All Christians are, by definition, Catholic.

Case closed.

I’m sorry, but this simply is not true.

“We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and which is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard.” Augustine, The True Religion, 7:12 (A.D. 390).

Your sentenced should be rephrased saying “All Catholics are Christians, but sadly not all Christians are Catholic.”

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

 

[awantz]

All Christians are, by definition, Catholic.

Case closed.

All Christians can’t be Catholic, because Catholic means united and all Christians are not united. Not even all “Catholics” are united.

 

[Harpazo]

All Christians can’t be Catholic, because Catholic means united and all Christians are not united. Not even all “Catholics” are united.

Could you clarify that last part?

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

 

[AMDGtoo]

Not even all “Catholics” are united.

Beg to differ. United with the Successor of Peter as Jesus intended from the beginning. The one Catholic Church comprises the Latin Rite Catholics and the Eastern Rite Catholics. Jesus said that He would build His Church–not churches. Those who separated from the Church during the Reformation are still connected with Jesus’ one Church–they just don’t teach the fullness of what He wanted passed on.

 

[awantz]

Could you clarify that last part?

Alaha minokhoun,
Andrew

Not all people who call themselves Catholic are united in their beliefs and thinking. However, I have yet to see a belief that is 100% united in every church. I asked a question in another thread and got two completely different answers, both Catholics.

 

[Memaw]

**Good so. However, Mom could not, as she - having married again after divorce, was suspended from the Church. At he bottom of her heart, as she told me over and over again, she stayed RomCatholic. For peace and solidarity, I mostly attended the Lutheran Church, namely as the brother of my second father war a Lutheran priest. Until I was grown up and married, I mostly went to this church.
I am Catholic because I’m convinced and I know, that Jesus founded this one Church on St.Peter. Jesus did not establish several Churches. Besides; reading Luther one finds a great deal of mistakes and misinterpretations. To all of it, I noticed as child the great difference that hurt me terribly.
But however: A Lutheran Christian who owns and gives love to his next, is in any case a better Christian than Catholics who hate their next und are far from forgiving.

Our family is traditionally friends to the respective Rabbi in the Synagogue next door to us. Seeing his family who is so loving an friendly and matching the situation to some families in our Catholic parish, I said to my wife: I think they are the better Christians **

Sad to say, that is true but we can’t judge the Church by its sinful members, we can pray for all, as the Blessed Mother asked us to do at Fatima. She said to pray for the conversion of sinners, more people go to Hell because they have NO ONE to pray for them. I truly believe that Fatima should bring us back to the seriousness of our Faith… One Pope said that Fatima is the reaffirmation of the Gospels.