M
If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic? - 2
- Status
G
guanophore
Guest
I am in harmony with Ron’s post above (I used to do the same thing to my mom!). Our battle here is not with flesh and blood, but against the spirtual powers of wickedness. The spirit that is attacking is thrilled when we react out of our wound, instead of out of love. When you indignantly assert “lies will not be tolerated!” it leads one to think that you have some sort of personal power to prevent such lies. We do not. The Father of lies can only be battled on a spiritual plane by the blood of Christ. What we can do is enter that battle through intercessory prayer, and to make a defense for the hope that is within us with charity.
We need to look beyond the misguided individual to the evil that is motivating the behavior, and focus out battle there.
G
guanophore
Guest
Yes, I do think . “we will not tolerate” sounds quite indignant, calling it “garbage” is, although apt, perhaps not conducive to discussion, and HORRIBLE sound pretty strong to me too.
Verily. Some of my best learning experiences here have been getting feedback on my expressions from my brethren. I have done a good bit of “railing and fuming” on here myself!
If you continue such an abrasive approach, it is more likely that the discussion will not continue, and you may be reprimanded, or the thread may be closed for lack of charity. One whole thread I was working on yesterday is gone today for that reason. We need to help each other.
M
Memaw
Guest
Come on you guys, I didn’t think we were the enemy but you are making it out so. and for you to quote “lies will not be tolerated” out of context, is not nice. PLEASE STOP JUDGING MY FEELINGS. I am NOT reacting out of “my wounds”. I am speaking the truth,
I suggest we get back to the task at hand and stop all this nonsense. God Bless, Memaw.
M
Memaw
Guest
Think what you want but you are still judging my motives, I am not talking out of hurt, or anger or whatever you want to think, I am speaking the truth as the Church teaches it. Why don’t you go back and read all of my posts and others too.
G
guanophore
Guest
I am glad that I misunderstood your expression. I am not judging your feelings, only observing your behavior, and only that which has been evident here. Granted, that is a biased representation. I do not think that you are the enemy, but clearly our enemy is at work in these lies about our faith.
I think it is only normal for us to feel wounded when the Holy Body of Christ is stabbed by such awful calumny.
My pleas for you to respond with charity and dignity are not nonsense. I am absolutely sincere in this. I do not want another thread to disappear because we are getting to heated.:byzsoc:
M
Memaw
Guest
I have heard that same “abrasive” language used by many experts, such as Fr. Levis, Fr. Corapi and Scott Haun, so I am in good company, don’t you think? I just said we could do more good working together than this. Now if we can just get back to the topic of this thread. I am sure Brink is laughing his head off.Yes, I do think . “we will not tolerate” sounds quite indignant, calling it “garbage” is, although apt, perhaps not conducive to discussion, and HORRIBLE sound pretty strong to me too.
Verily. Some of my best learning experiences here have been getting feedback on my expressions from my brethren. I have done a good bit of “railing and fuming” on here myself!
If you continue such an abrasive approach, it is more likely that the discussion will not continue, and you may be reprimanded, or the thread may be closed for lack of charity. One whole thread I was working on yesterday is gone today for that reason. We need to help each other.
M
Memaw
Guest
Maybe I have more of a sense of humor than you but if we get thrown off, I think it may be because I have to defend myself against your uncharitable accusations. I have asked several times, lets get back on topic!!
B
Bruno_Schulz
Guest
**never mind chums, at least I learned some new words in English 
**
**
A
awantz
Guest
M
Memaw
Guest
Bruno,**never mind chums, at least I learned some new words in English
Glad to see you have a sense of humor too. Do you get EWTN Catholic Cable network over there? Everyone could learn so much about the Catholic Faith by watching it. I especially enjoy “Journey Home.” And this thread would fit very nicely into that program. Only then the question would be “If you were already Christian, why DID you become Catholic?” We’re never to old to learn. God Bless, Memaw
N
NotWorthy
Guest
BfB and awantz, you guys keep thinking that Catholics can separate the Church from Christ. The Church is the Bride of Christ. In marriage, the Two become One.
We don’t put our faith in a denomination, and you both only discredit yourselves by claiming we do. By following the teachings of the Church, we are following the teachings of Christ.
I think this is something that most (but not all) Protestants can grasp because their church has stripped away all authority.
A
awantz
Guest
BfB and awantz, you guys keep thinking that Catholics can separate the Church from Christ. The Church is the Bride of Christ. In marriage, the Two become One.
We don’t put our faith in a denomination, and you both only discredit yourselves by claiming we do. By following the teachings of the Church, we are following the teachings of Christ.
You misunderstand me. I didn’t say that. However, anyone can separate themselves from Christ if they choose too.
We don’t put our faith in a denomination either. Try reading the last line of BFTB’s post that you were responding too.I’m not saying that all Catholics do, but some do. There’s people like that in every church, not just the Catholic or Protestant church.
M
Memaw
Guest
If Adam and Eve etc. are incorrect, then why did we need a Savior and why did God promise us one, (as a result of and right after they sinned, I might add,) and why did Jesus become Man and die on the Cross for our sins ??? If you throw Adam and Eve out, you have to throw out a whole lot more. Seems like your messing up God’s whole plan for our salvation.
B
backfrmthebrink
Guest
Aagain its funny how you all believe people who disagree with what the catholic church teaches and have seen truth of its deception are in need of being enlightened. MEMEW Your lack of understanding is evident in every post you have made. You do not understand that the Bible is doctrine and Paul himself said “above all guard your doctrine closely”. I have studied every doctrine in scripture over years of study in systematic theology and have no questions or unresolved issue with regards to the catholic church. I DO have issues with how all of you challenge everyone who does nto agree with you. We give you biblical justification but you do not hear it. You have no biblical truth to stanbd on so you have to go to other writings.
Christ did have to be born of a woman to be fully man in His assertion. It was the Father’s plan. To assert that Christ therefore chose Mary to be assisting in salvation is insane. YET you propagate this stuff and those who are seeking on this site may buy into the lies as you do. You believe my experience growing up catholic was somehow unatural or uncommitted but I spent time contemplating the seminary. Even spent time there. I loved serving as a child as an alter boy and did so for a long time. I spent hours a day with Priests. My cousins and aunts are Priests and nuns and I praise God every day that He showed me the truth of this church. There are so many Priests today that have left the catholic church because they began to study scripture and the love of their life. The cath church did not line up with their study of scripture. This was new because in the entire seminary experience, although they waited and waited they never recieved any teaching in Bibliology or systematic theology. They recieved most of their training in rituals, traditions, and the writings of the catholic church. Writings of historical nature as well and discovered how the cath. church rewrote history. These priests leave the cath church and find themselves in so much emotional pain form the discovery of this lie. some get born again. FOR THE FIRST TIME! and saddly otherss kill themselves. Why? Because the church they thought they loved, they thought they would devote their lives to, they thouyght was the THE church of God, Christs church was not. It was the enemy’s.
I do not need your enlightenment. I have no questions or misunderstandings and God as my witness whom I love, I have mentioned no lies. I have simply hope for sinners as I am one that they find salvation as I did. Salvation, I do not believe can be gained in the catholic church. I, to be honest do not care if I offend others in doing this. The enemy is offensive to me. I care only that one perhaps might think and reason with scriptures to see the lostness of the church. I do not mean to anger others however or to end up being a bad example as a believer or to in the end in hy humaness let my pride get in the way as it so often does. So with that I will just sign off from this thread. If there is anyone who may wish to carry on for some healthy reason, for life, please feel free to email me as a brother I hope in Christ.
jamesnmiller@frontiernet.net
Christ did have to be born of a woman to be fully man in His assertion. It was the Father’s plan. To assert that Christ therefore chose Mary to be assisting in salvation is insane. YET you propagate this stuff and those who are seeking on this site may buy into the lies as you do. You believe my experience growing up catholic was somehow unatural or uncommitted but I spent time contemplating the seminary. Even spent time there. I loved serving as a child as an alter boy and did so for a long time. I spent hours a day with Priests. My cousins and aunts are Priests and nuns and I praise God every day that He showed me the truth of this church. There are so many Priests today that have left the catholic church because they began to study scripture and the love of their life. The cath church did not line up with their study of scripture. This was new because in the entire seminary experience, although they waited and waited they never recieved any teaching in Bibliology or systematic theology. They recieved most of their training in rituals, traditions, and the writings of the catholic church. Writings of historical nature as well and discovered how the cath. church rewrote history. These priests leave the cath church and find themselves in so much emotional pain form the discovery of this lie. some get born again. FOR THE FIRST TIME! and saddly otherss kill themselves. Why? Because the church they thought they loved, they thought they would devote their lives to, they thouyght was the THE church of God, Christs church was not. It was the enemy’s.
I do not need your enlightenment. I have no questions or misunderstandings and God as my witness whom I love, I have mentioned no lies. I have simply hope for sinners as I am one that they find salvation as I did. Salvation, I do not believe can be gained in the catholic church. I, to be honest do not care if I offend others in doing this. The enemy is offensive to me. I care only that one perhaps might think and reason with scriptures to see the lostness of the church. I do not mean to anger others however or to end up being a bad example as a believer or to in the end in hy humaness let my pride get in the way as it so often does. So with that I will just sign off from this thread. If there is anyone who may wish to carry on for some healthy reason, for life, please feel free to email me as a brother I hope in Christ.
jamesnmiller@frontiernet.net
N
NotWorthy
Guest
And this is my point and again, I don’t think you comprehend it.
I put my Faith in my Church when I put my Faith in Christ. Many Catholics SHOULD put their faith in their Church, but sadly they don’t.
Now, does that mean because I’m Catholic, I’m saved? No. It simply means I must be obedient to the Church, which is the same as being obedient to Christ. You can’t separate the two.
J
JRKH
Guest
This is certainly the Pot calling the Kettle Black. No offence intended.
When you came here to CATHOLIC ANSWERS did you expect your posts to start a massive conversion away from the Faith?
Did you expect that the Catholics here would NOT Challenge you?
You seem to think that catholics in general, and the Church Herself are completely ignorant of their OWN Book.
Correction. They hopefully will find the Fullness of Truth in God’s Holy Catholic Church. Just as Christ intended when He founded the Church on Men and not a Book.
It saddens me to see that the evil one was able to cut out yet another lamb from Christ’s flock.
Obviously the issue here is just this. For those poor souls as well as yourself. They (You) only thought you loved Christ’s Church. Unfortunatly it appears that the parable of the Seeds and the Sower is very true and many seeds fall among briars, stoney ground and the road where they are trampled, or choked by evil. Those who Plant themselves firmly in the Love of Christ, both Inside and outside of Holy Mother Church can grow in God’s Love and understanding. You my friend are being Choked by the Briars of Hate and intolerance. Please reconsider this. You may not wish to be Catholic, but do no further damage to your brothers in Chirst.
May God expand your “Perfect” understanding to include Charity to your fellow Christians. May He also forgive your blasphemies against the Holy Spirit in His Church.
This is obvious. Unfortunately to you detriment. For in rejecting the Church you have gone too far. You have made an enemy of a great and true friend.
As he is to all of us. Unfortunately you have labeled the wrong intitution enemy.
The Church has nearly 2000 years of scripture study. Many here, both Catholic and non-Catholic study Scripture studiously. In addition we pray to our Father in Heaven for guidance and understanding of His will. Many have been led to His Church either as converts or as reverts. I pray the in the days to come He may soften you heart un-stiffen your neck (to pull from the OT) so that you may see that we are all His children and working for His Glory.
I am sorry to see you withdraw with such a negative view still in place, yet I see it as being inevitable. Keep studying and Keep praying my misguded brother. Open you heart to God’s Love and To His True Nature of Forgiveness.
Peace
James
C
Church_Militant
Guest
Hey it’s the truth.
In fact, objectively, it’s essentially the same thing that you are doing here…except that for the most part we seek to do so with less vitriol.
So… let us be sure we understand what you are saying.
Even though what you have espoused is modern post reformation new winds of doctrines of men that have no Biblical basis aside from the interpretations of men, and have no verifiable historical roots in either the writings of the early church fathers or the Word of God, you feel that your personal interpretations are inspired?
I would like to see your proof of this assertion. (Perhaps in a thread you open for that purpose.)
This is totally untrue. What you mistake here is the fact that the interpretations of the Catholic Church are not only found in the Bible but also in some 2,000 years of Christian teachings and writings. You have already referred to any number of modern post reformation men as sources that affirm your interpretations, and yet are unwilling to accept that the sources you accept have no basis in the historically verifiable teachings of the Christian faith.
For example, if the apostle St. John personally discipled Sts. Polycarp and Ignatius of Antioch and we have their writings as verification that they condemn some of the very things that you believe and preach, while these ancient apostolic sources, from men who gave their lives for the faith affirm the same doctrines and beliefs as modern Catholicism.
is insane. YET you propagate this stuff and those who are seeking on this site may buy into the lies as you do.Again, here you fail to have an honest assessment of the uniqueness of Mary’s position in God’s plan. She is the fulfillment of specific prophecies, even as Christ is. She is the second most unique person in all of human history aside from Our Lord Himself (and that by His doing). Her role as the source of His human nature, (in fact, if one could check it, one would find that Our Lord’s DNA matched Mary’s perfectly, since He had no human father.) Her role in God’s plan of salvation is crucial, but in no way detracts from that of Christ Jesus. After all, her message has not changed at all from the one she stated in the New Testament. “5 His mother saith to the waiters: Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye.” (John 2)
I’ll recount to you something that a Baptist preacher once said in a sermon. You may sincerely believe something and still be sincerely wrong. That’s (unfortunately) where you are…
here we have rhetorical propaganda without substantive verifiable statistics.
Certainly there are some who left…but the vast majority remain, and their numbers are growing steadily.
It’s odd though, as my testimony states. It was the study of scripture that brought me home to the Catholic faith.
(Cont’d)
C
Church_Militant
Guest
So you know every priest who left? I have to doubt that. The few that I have encountered (in their writings at least) display anything but a good understanding of the Catholic faith, and their new religion shows that they are now preaching their own twisted private interpretation of the Word of God and espousing things that the Bible actually does not teach.
This is rhetorical propaganda that I defy you to prove. It sounds damning, but I wager that if you provide your sources they will be refuted with the facts.
More propaganda without proof.
This is just a-C propaganda without a substantive shred of fact. Wishful thing perhaps…but nothing mere.
In your own misguided opinion perhaps…
In your opinion, but you have already expressed several errors as to what the Catholic Church teaches as well as what the Word of God teaches. That makes all your other remarks suspect as well.
And this is one reason that your witness is so poorly received. It is so little like that of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Even were I likely to be converted away from our most holy faith, I would not give ear to someone whose faith sharing style showed me so little of the person of Christ living in them. I suppose that you have not read the story of Our Lord and the woman at the well? Or read this in Matthew 12. "16 And he charged them that they should not make him known. 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaias the prophet, saying: 18 Behold my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved in whom my soul hath been well pleased. I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles. 19 He shall not contend, nor cry out, neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. 20 The bruised reed he shall not break: and smoking flax he shall not extinguish: till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21 And in his name the Gentiles shall hope."
You’ll have to do far better than you have thus far.
Like I said…
You might let me know when you are really ready to discuss with an open heart and better charity. No one’s perfect, but if you continue with unsubstantiated rhetoric like you have so far any discussion with you might be a waste of time.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello Church Militant,
Great Posts! as usual!
Peace
- Status