If you are a Christian, what is the real reason for you not being a Catholic?

[lukewarm]

Birth control by contraception is vital for survival. Over population causes many problems but one that is perhaps unsolvable is aggression caused by overly dense population.

That’s nonsense, Europe is falling apart because the people won’t have children to replace the population, immigration is filling the void, soon Europe will essentially unreconizeable as an Anglo Christian society. Some places in Russia, Italy, and Eastern Europe are paying their citizens to have children, some towns in Italy pay them as much as $10,000 Euros per child. In Europe you have some areas with a 1.2 children per child bearing female. This is not enough to support an aging population, who will be the teachers? Who will provide support for those 65 and over? I wouldn’t doubt we see a legit move towards legalized euthanasia due to the strain that this causes on an aging Europe in the upcoming years .

. Times have changed, but the RCC doesn’t change with the times. That isn’t all bad, but it sure isn’t a good thing in all situations either.

The more they change the more they stay the same, do you honestly think this is the first time people were accepting fo the sin of homosexuality? Or abortion? Or contracepted to avoid having children? It’s been around from the beginning, most pagan societies had no problem with these sins at all.

 

[Namesake]

Only when the “damage” is counterbalanced by the life of an innocent human being murdered is that murder “acceptable”, making it a mere killing.

If you can’t accept that a person is a person, and that the single most innocent posssible person is an unborn person, then you might want to explore why that is so.

A gamete isn’t a person.

I can’t keep up with you. Suffice it to say that I can never convince you, and you can never convince me. We should quit.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi fbl9

hi whatisthetruth;re post 785 good one lol…you got it backwards though you were supposed take the bus but took the plane…



any how since you are on my doorstep i ask you in.

thank you for letting me in and not punishing me for taking a different path

ask you what you about all the beautiful things you saw will on the bus,you have no choice but to tell me you didn’t see a thing of beauty cause you would have missed it all from way up in the air.

this is true

well as to you second post oGo responded exactly as i would have thanks oGo… now you may say what is the use of going to confesion,if i am already forgiven,part assurance and to heal the damage done by the sin.if like say you and a loved one had a fight,realising the wrong done each of you forgive one another.now you are feeling bad so you buy a gift to help make up for the offense you have done. that gift is can be likened to the pennance one recieves at absolution.

Well explained, thank you I believe I understand. So going to confession, if you are already forgiven is more or less a healing process is not mandatory is a “healing process” like you said to “buy a gift to help make up for the offense you have done”

Yes??

fbl9,

I may off my rocker,
but I want to say
thank you
thank you
thank you

When you posted the below scene

one question then i dissappear; if say i asked one of yous to come visit me. you reply yes i’ll come visit you. i tell you to take the bus to get here.but you decided to to take an airplane to visit me instead. did you do what i asked you to do?think on this for a while.

I thought nothing of it and I replied back

but when you told me I got it backwards I thoaught oops and I didnt answer you back right away.

then it dawned on me, I did get to your place.

and even though
I did not get to witness the beautiful scenery on the ground from the bus,

I did see beautiful scenes from the plane that are impossible from a bus.

The main point is no matter the path, I got to my destination (your place) and accoplished the ultimate goal of paying you a visit.

one last thought, no matter the path, plane of bus, there is one scene that is quite clear from any mode of transportation, and that is _____________

anyone care to guess??

God bless you

Truth

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
Only when the “damage” is counterbalanced by the life of an innocent human being murdered is that murder “acceptable”, making it a mere killing.

If you can’t accept that a person is a person, and that the single most innocent posssible person is an unborn person, then you might want to explore why that is so.

A gamete isn’t a person.

I can’t keep up with you. Suffice it to say that I can never convince you, and you can never convince me. We should quit.

Your “pope” says “a gamete” is not a person.

Mine does. Oh well. I’d still love for you to support the very interesting things you’ve stated as “fact”.

I’m not interested in “converting” you. That’s not the issue. I’m interested in what you think about these things, and if you “can’t keep up” and/or have no real support or reason for saying what you say then you might want to examine why it’s so difficult for you to support your “truths”.

Best to you!

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

…even though
I did not get to witness the beautiful scenery on the ground from the bus,

I did see beautiful scenes from the plane that are impossible from a bus.

The main point is no matter the path, I got to my destination (your place) and accoplished the ultimate goal of paying you a visit.

The Catholic point is that by not doing what our Father has specifically directed us to do, if He has graced us with knowing that that is what we are to do, can PROHIBIT you from reaching your desired destination.

The protestant “shortcut”, if it is known to BE a shortcut is disobedience, and results, if not reconciled with God causes one to choose to hold one’s “opinion” that “shortcuts are just fine” over God and drag one down to hell.

 

[inchrist101]

So, you didn’t believe in the Church as “the Church”, but rather in the “church” as protestants know of “churches”, from the beginning?

Bad catechesis is the great tragedy of the Church. Your bad catechesis created a terrible human trajedy. May we all pray that this nonsense (bad catechesis) cease immediately and that Catholic people get fed what they need to be true people of God.

Jesus would respond to your situation by pointing out that “marriage if valid is until death of one of the spouses” and offer you help in either reconciling with your spouse or being chaste until such time as you are in the position to wed again with God’s blessing.

How would you like to have been treated?

First I would say I believe anyone who believes in Christ is part of the church. The church is bigger than any singular denomination. I’m not sure what you mean by protestants from the beginning. Help me out there.

As far as my situation I think Jesus would be disappointed that I got divorced. But I also believe he would rather we divorce than continue in an unhealthy relationship. Let alone bring a child into that situation. I think at the time I was hoping the Catholic church would reach out and help. They kept saying, we’ll have someone contact you. And they never did. I was definitely in need of spiritual counseling and was open to it. To make matters worse, the Priest who I grew up with and respected so much was caught using cocaine and participating in a gay relationship. He was the first one I turned to and I never heard from him. This isn’t why I left though. I don’t blame the Catholic church for his indiscretions.

I think I just slipped through the cracks probably. I keep thinking of the parable of the lost sheep.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

First I would say I believe anyone who believes in Christ is part of the church. The church is bigger than any singular denomination. I’m not sure what you mean by protestants from the beginning. Help me out there.

Since you were not catechised well, you were (demonstrably) never a fully formed Catholic (regardless of bits of paper that might say otherwise).

As far as my situation I think Jesus would be disappointed that I got divorced. But I also believe he would rather we divorce than continue in an unhealthy relationship. Let alone bring a child into that situation.

Perhaps, He would rather you two adults reconcile your differences such that you regained a full love of each other and thereby create a wonderful enviroment for any children to grow in?

I think at the time I was hoping the Catholic church would reach out and help. They kept saying, we’ll have someone contact you. And they never did. I was definitely in need of spiritual counseling and was open to it.

Now that is a tragedy! Someone will spend, at least, some major “purgatory time” for that one.

And once again, you actually blame “The Body of Christ” for the reather evil actions of mere men? Why?

To make matters worse, the Priest who I grew up with and respected so much was caught using cocaine and participating in a gay relationship. He was the first one I turned to and I never heard from him. This isn’t why I left though. I don’t blame the Catholic church for his indiscretions.

I think I just slipped through the cracks probably. I keep thinking of the parable of the lost sheep.

Well, once again, due to poor catechesis, you were allowed to believe that ANYTHING was worth separation from most full communion with the Body of Christ!

You can still see the error in that. You’re always welcome back. If you’ve found “comfort” in lesser communion with God, then God will be weighing that “trade-off” and your choice of Him or not will be as you will it.

Praying for you!

 

[inchrist101]

Since you were not catechised well, you were (demonstrably) never a fully formed Catholic (regardless of bits of paper that might say otherwise).

Perhaps, He would rather you two adults reconcile your differences such that you regained a full love of each other and thereby create a wonderful enviroment for any children to grow in?

Now that is a tragedy! Someone will spend, at least, some major “purgatory time” for that one.

And once again, you actually blame “The Body of Christ” for the reather evil actions of mere men? Why?

Well, once again, due to poor catechesis, you were allowed to believe that ANYTHING was worth separation from most full communion with the Body of Christ!

You can still see the error in that. You’re always welcome back. If you’ve found “comfort” in lesser communion with God, then God will be weighing that “trade-off” and your choice of Him or not will be as you will it.

Praying for you!

You make some very nice points. Here’s what I’ll say. I don’t hold the Roman Catholic church accountable for the actions of a few people. That would be unfair. Maybe they didn’t reach me but maybe I wasn’t trying hard enough to reach them. The bottom line is I fell away and wasn’t living my faith. I take responsibility for that. The question on the board is why did you leave the Catholic church. My answer is probably more like why didn’t I come back and why won’t I come back. I explained that later. I don’t believe that I am in any lesser communion with GOD by attending the church I attend now. I sincerely prayed for guidance and HE gave it to me. He lead us to the church where we are now. So are you implying then that GOD wants a lesser communion with me by not leading me back to the Catholic church? I hope not.

As far as reconciling with my wife. Yes I’m sure Jesus would have wanted that. But I believe he is forgiving that we didn’t. Does that take away from the wonderful relationship I have with my current wife and our daughter now? No. I would hope and think that Jesus would be ecstatic over our devotion for one another and to our daughter. More importantly that we both allowed him back into our lives.

PEACE and GOD Bless!!!

 

[whatisthetruth]

The Catholic point is that by not doing what our Father has specifically directed us to do, if He has graced us with knowing that that is what we are to do, can PROHIBIT you from reaching your desired destination.

The protestant “shortcut”, if it is known to BE a shortcut is disobedience, and results, if not reconciled with God causes one to choose to hold one’s “opinion” that “shortcuts are just fine” over God and drag one down to hell.

Good point CalmDownWisWins, ***if ***our Father is directing us all on one path,

We need to define the one path. I believe we all believe in Jesus.

He is the way to the father, how we all get to Jesus may lie the variety of ways of “mode of transportation”.
Not all can be a pope or priest or nun or altar boys or choir members or ushers or you get the picture,

just a thought,

once we have jesus and keep Jesus it is only then we have access to “paradise”

truth

 

[LilyM]

That’s nonsense, Europe is falling apart because the people won’t have children to replace the population, immigration is filling the void, soon Europe will essentially unreconizeable as an Anglo Christian society.

Small nitpick here - Anglo Christian? Christ Himself certainly wasn’t Anglo, neither have most Christians been. Perhaps you mean Caucasian?

… ok, back to the regularly scheduled programming …

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

You make some very nice points. Here’s what I’ll say. I don’t hold the Roman Catholic church accountable for the actions of a few people. That would be unfair. Maybe they didn’t reach me but maybe I wasn’t trying hard enough to reach them. The bottom line is I fell away and wasn’t living my faith. I take responsibility for that. The question on the board is why did you leave the Catholic church. My answer is probably more like why didn’t I come back and why won’t I come back. I explained that later. I don’t believe that I am in any lesser communion with GOD by attending the church I attend now.

I sincerely prayed for guidance and HE gave it to me. He lead us to the church where we are now. So are you implying then that GOD wants a lesser communion with me by not leading me back to the Catholic church? I hope not.

God most certainly wants you in as fully in communion with Him as possible, and you chose lesser than you could have. That is what free will is for, and what it allows us to do, whether it’s good for us or not. His simply ALLOWING you to choose this or that is not Him LEADING you to this as opposed to that.

If you more fully understood “the Catholic position” you’d understand that you have no way of KNOWING what He is leading you toward unless you check that “knowing” (private revelation) with the Church. Of course, the likelyhood of the Church telling you that what you actually did choose was TRUELY from God is very small indeed.

But why? Not because “they want to keep you to keep up the membership roles”, but rather because there is no way that choosing as you did is the most wise choice, on your part.

My contention, which you won’t like in the least, is that you were “lead” by the “demonic forces” which would have you substitute your “comfort” (a more comfortable environment) for what is most best, most good for you, which would be to stay in the Church and carry your cross as instructed.

As far as reconciling with my wife. Yes I’m sure Jesus would have wanted that. But I believe he is forgiving that we didn’t. Does that take away from the wonderful relationship I have with my current wife and our daughter now? No.

What would Jesus think of, or value, your choice to be married to one woman while living with and having children with another? What does that make you? What does that make you present wife? What effect might that “environment” have on your child?

Jesus is no doubt ecstatic that you have cooperated in the creation of another beautiful person, but He might question the social situation in which you have placed her, as well as the effect of that situation on you and all those within society in general in which you have contact.

I would hope and think that Jesus would be ecstatic over our devotion for one another and to our daughter. More importantly that we both allowed him back into our lives.

PEACE and GOD Bless!!!

How have you reconciled with the Body of Christ your utter condemnation of one of His commands? I very much have to question how you can let that stand?

But then, if the old trusty deceiver has managed to interpose an idol of “comfort” between a person and his Real God such that that person sees the idol AS God, this situation makes perfect sense.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
The Catholic point is that by not doing what our Father has specifically directed us to do, if He has graced us with knowing that that is what we are to do, can PROHIBIT you from reaching your desired destination.

The protestant “shortcut”, if it is known to BE a shortcut is disobedience, and results, if not reconciled with God causes one to choose to hold one’s “opinion” that “shortcuts are just fine” over God and drag one down to hell.

Good point CalmDownWisWins, if our Father is directing us all on one path,

We need to define the one path. I believe we all believe in Jesus.

He is the way to the father, how we all get to Jesus may lie the variety of ways of “mode of transportation”.

I believe that belief in Jesus is the ONE path to heaven, and that the action, the doing, the work of this belief is to follow as closely as we can specifically what He has told us to do.

If one truly thinks, in all honesty, that the limited (from the Catholic point of view) “mode of transport” is THE BEST way to get to heaven, then one is not held culpable for not truly knowing that there is a better way.

But your having a good reasonable mind who can very well articulate your thoughts may have a very difficult time claiming that lack of culpability when the time comes.

The more you learn, the more culpable you become. To reject the best for an inferior substitute, which is “sufficient” only while one knows of no better way, which upon revelation that there **is **a better way the lesser way becomes “insufficient” and an afront to God, and if held onto will drag one down to where holding untruth before God results.

That is the puzzle which those in lesser communion with the Body of Christ face. Will it be the “monkey trap” (fruit in a bottle) of self-righteous gripping of false doctrine, or the true freedom of letting the sugared fruit in the bottle go, and eating of the living fruit of the tree?

Sometimes it’s very hard to see the tether tied between the bottle and the tree.

 

[whatisthetruth]

You make some very nice points. Here’s what I’ll say. I don’t hold the Roman Catholic church accountable for the actions of a few people. That would be unfair. Maybe they didn’t reach me but maybe I wasn’t trying hard enough to reach them. The bottom line is I fell away and wasn’t living my faith. I take responsibility for that. The question on the board is why did you leave the Catholic church. My answer is probably more like why didn’t I come back and why won’t I come back. I explained that later. I don’t believe that I am in any lesser communion with GOD by attending the church I attend now. I sincerely prayed for guidance and HE gave it to me. He lead us to the church where we are now. So are you implying then that GOD wants a lesser communion with me by not leading me back to the Catholic church? I hope not.

As far as reconciling with my wife. Yes I’m sure Jesus would have wanted that. But I believe he is forgiving that we didn’t. Does that take away from the wonderful relationship I have with my current wife and our daughter now? No. I would hope and think that Jesus would be ecstatic over our devotion for one another and to our daughter. More importantly that we both allowed him back into our lives.

PEACE and GOD Bless!!!

Pure Christianity… testimony to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
Praise God
Thank you for sharing INCHRIST

 

[whatisthetruth]

I believe that belief in Jesus is the ONE path to heaven, and that the action, the doing, the work of this belief is to follow as closely as we can specifically what He has told us to do.

If one truly thinks, in all honesty, that the limited (from the Catholic point of view) “mode of transport” is THE BEST way to get to heaven, then one is not held culpable for not truly knowing that there is a better way.

But your having a good reasonable mind who can very well articulate your thoughts may have a very difficult time claiming that lack of culpability when the time comes.

The more you learn, the more culpable you become. To reject the best for an inferior substitute, which is “sufficient” only while one knows of no better way, which upon revelation that there **is **a better way the lesser way becomes “insufficient” and an afront to God, and if held onto will drag one down to where holding untruth before God results.

That is the puzzle which those in lesser communion with the Body of Christ face. Will it be the “monkey trap” (fruit in a bottle) of self-righteous gripping of false doctrine, or the true freedom of letting the sugared fruit in the bottle go, and eating of the living fruit of the tree?

Sometimes it’s very hard to see the tether tied between the bottle and the tree.

CalmDownWisWins
I am not even going to begin to try and understand that ,sorry

CAn you tie it down to a couple sentences?

thank you

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
I believe that belief in Jesus is the ONE path to heaven, and that the action, the doing, the work of this belief is to follow as closely as we can specifically what He has told us to do.

If one truly thinks, in all honesty, that the limited (from the Catholic point of view) “mode of transport” is THE BEST way to get to heaven, then one is not held culpable for not truly knowing that there is a better way.

But your having a good reasonable mind who can very well articulate your thoughts may have a very difficult time claiming that lack of culpability when the time comes.

The more you learn, the more culpable you become. To reject the best for an inferior substitute, which is “sufficient” only while one knows of no better way, which upon revelation that there is a better way the lesser way becomes “insufficient” and an afront to God, and if held onto will drag one down to where holding untruth before God results.

That is the puzzle which those in lesser communion with the Body of Christ face. Will it be the “monkey trap” (fruit in a bottle) of self-righteous gripping of false doctrine, or the true freedom of letting the sugared fruit in the bottle go, and eating of the living fruit of the tree?

Sometimes it’s very hard to see the tether tied between the bottle and the tree.

CalmDownWisWins
I am not even going to begin to try and understand that ,sorry

CAn you tie it down to a couple sentences?

Not to make disparaging comments as to the metal faculties of our dear partner in sort-of-faith here, but… I guess I’ll just have to not make any comment at all on that subject then, I suppose.

Anyway, to boil it down:

Do what God says to do as His Church says to do it, but if you are prevented from hearing Him as He is best heard, then He may have mercy on your soul for your unfortunate inculpable incompetence.

But if you HAVE heard Him as He is to be best heard, and you choose to close your ears, the hell of your rejection is yours eternally.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Not to make disparaging comments as to the metal faculties of our dear partner in sort-of-faith here, but… I guess I’ll just have to not make any comment at all on that subject then, I suppose.

Anyway, to boil it down:

Do what God says to do as His Church says to do it, but if you are prevented from hearing Him as He is best heard, then He may have mercy on your soul for your unfortunate inculpable incompetence.

But if you HAVE heard Him as He is to be best heard, and you choose to close your ears, the hell of your rejection is yours eternally.

CalmDownWisWins

Thank you for clarifying I understand exactly what you are saying now,

To that, Jesus said in the bible…“he who has not sinned, let him throw the first stone”

I dropped my stone. How about you???

God bless

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi all.

I want to thank you all from the bottom of my heart sharing with me your thoughts and beliefs we me.
You have given me more insight into the Catholic faith than I ever knew when I was a Catholic.

At this point I have decided to stop posting on the thread.

If you have a question that you feel I have not answered on the thread, I invite you to PM.

Having said that, I am not leaving the site. For those who have not noticed, I will be watching

A prayer for the 3,000,000+ prisoners I just started
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=214964

“Shine Jesus Shine”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=212973

“Tired of debating? Let’s agree on Jesus”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=208185

How do you believe God sees you?
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=210586

I hope to see you there.

God bless you all

truth

---

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmDownWisWins
Not to make disparaging comments as to the metal faculties of our dear partner in sort-of-faith here, but… I guess I’ll just have to not make any comment at all on that subject then, I suppose.

Anyway, to boil it down:

Do what God says to do as His Church says to do it, but if you are prevented from hearing Him as He is best heard, then He may have mercy on your soul for your unfortunate inculpable incompetence.

But if you HAVE heard Him as He is to be best heard, and you choose to close your ears, the hell of your rejection is yours eternally.

CalmDownWisWins

Thank you for clarifying I understand exactly what you are saying now,

To that, Jesus said in the bible…“he who has not sinned, let him throw the first stone”

I dropped my stone. How about you???

I have no stones to throw! Are you one of the “potential stone throwers”?

The lovely thing about having the Church as the source of truth is that it isn’t ME that is claiming to be able to infallibly tell the truth of Christ to those in error. It is the Church, which is incapable of sin.

Just as Jesus wasn’t one of the “potential stone throwers”, I’m only stating His truths as they affect your situation, and am not interested in throwing stones.

 

[Jimmy_B]

The Catholic church probably was an important and functional part of human society at some time in the past. Certainly it was a very powerful organization. But the Catholic church is long past it’s halcyon days. Nevertheless, the Catholic church looks backward to those days of power and relevance instead of looking forward to what contemporary humans need. And for sure the world needs birth control for many good reasons. But the Catholic church can’t get that figured out directly so the loophole is invented.

Hello Namesake,

Your qoute -

"instead of looking forward to what contemporary humans need."

What does this mean (above) and what is it that a "contemporary human needs?

If I am correct, based on following your posts here, the context of your comments (above, and in previous posts) was in regards to the Catholic Church’s position on birth control.

Please provide the “top-ten” list of “comtemporary” human needs.

I would like to know what they are, in your opinion.

 

[CalmDownWisWins]

Hello Namesake,

Your qoute -

What does this mean (above) and what is it that a "contemporary human needs?

…

Please provide the “top-ten” list of “comtemporary” human needs.

I would like to know what they are, in your opinion.

It’s about as likely a request to be fulfilled as the ever-mysterious “Essential Doctrines which we all agree on” request.

Namesake, please show us that at least ONE protestant is capable of supporting their statements! I’m really getting tired of these non-thinking irrational “feeling-thoughts” that you folks seem to have but don’t want to share.