If you are a convert, what drew you to the Church?

[steve-b]

Yes they are.

Then by definition, they need evangelization

 

[steve-b]

You must be aware that Hillel the Elder, a generation before Jesus, summarized Torah teaching in that way: love G-d and love your neighbor, and all the rest is commentary. Hillel did NOT mean only Jews.

When Jesus said the following

Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out, charging them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And preach as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons…

Matt 15: 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”[/u[e] 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” 27 She said, “Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28 Then Jesus answered her, “O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed instantly.[

while Jesus words look one way on the surface, otoh, that looks to me like Jesus is giving the Jews, the people of the covenant, 1st right of refusal to accept the new and everlasting covenant, and He is putting full attention to that goal.

AND,
•the result of that effort, the Church in the beginning was 100% Jewish.
• yet Jesus did interact a few times with Gentiles, and was particularly impressed with the Roman centurion and what he said to Jesus. Such that Jesus said He hadn’t seen faith like that in all Israel Matthew 8:5-13 . Mt8:5-13 RSVCE - Jesus Heals a Centurion’s Servant - Bible Gateway And we make the same powerful profession of faith before we receive Jesus in the Eucharist.
• The HS inspired Peter to open the covenant up to Gentiles by baptizing Cornelius AND his whole family
• And Paul being frustrated with his fellow Jews because of their resistence to him, mentally and physically, THEN was inspired to go to the Gentiles.
Thus it looks to me, Jesus and His apostles gave the Jews first right of refusal by focusing on them first.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Does what you say relate to my comment about Hillel the Elder, or are you presenting new information, which I appreciate?

As long as you brought up and emphasized “the new and everlasting convenant,” be aware that Jews interpret this prophecy as the “renewed covenant” rather than a “new one.” And renewed in the sense that Torah study and practice based on that study would become renewed when the Messiah came. This did NOT happen when Jesus arrived. Why renewed rather than a new covenant? Because, according to Jewish belief, the previous covenant was called eternal by G-d Himself, and not once but over and over again. If it was meant to be replaced (or fulfilled, as Christians are wont to say, not that the coming of the Messiah was meant to fulfill the Law), then G-d must have either lied or was joking when He repeatedly called the covenant eternal. Interestingly as well, the Nazarene Jews, who accept Jesus as the Messiah but not G-d, believe that Jesus intended the Law be studied in more depth and detail rather than changed (and make no mistake, it did change by commission and omission). That was (one of) the Messiah’s mission.

 

[steve-b]

Does what you say relate to my comment about Hillel the Elder, or are you presenting new information, which I appreciate?

how about both + what AnnetteJoan wrote Re: the Orthodox Jews are still waiting for the messiah

meltzerboy2:

As long as you brought up and emphasized “the new and everlasting convenant,” be aware that Jews interpret this prophecy as the “renewed covenant” rather than a “new one.”

I referred to Jews as people of the covenant. Are you saying among other beliefs, that you believe Jesus is the Messiah?

meltzerboy2:

And renewed in the sense that Torah study and practice based on that study would become renewed when the Messiah came. This did NOT happen when Jesus arrived.

So Jesus is NOT the Messiah?

meltzerboy2:

Why renewed rather than a new covenant? Because, according to Jewish belief, the previous covenant was called eternal by G-d Himself, and not once but over and over again. If it was meant to be replaced (or fulfilled, as Christians are wont to say, not that the coming of the Messiah was meant to fulfill the Law), then G-d must have either lied or was joking when He repeatedly called the covenant eternal.

Or are you suggesting you have your covenant and we have ours?

meltzerboy2:

Interestingly as well, the Nazarene Jews, who accept Jesus as the Messiah but not G-d, believe that Jesus intended the Law be studied in more depth and detail rather than changed (and make no mistake, it did change by commission and omission). That was (one of) the Messiah’s mission.

Obviously there were Jews who accepted Jesus as messiah but the majority did NOT. That’s why I posted what I did. It was Jesus who wanted and ordered His apostles to go only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

As I posted

Jesus said

"Matt 10:5 “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans, 6 but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 And preach as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ …

Matt 15: 22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and cried, “Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely possessed by a demon.” 23 But he did not answer her a word. [snip for space] 24]He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” [e] 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, help me.” 26 And he answered, “It is not fair to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.” [snip for space]

that looks to me like Jesus is giving the Jews, the people of the covenant, 1st right of refusal to accept the new and everlasting covenant, He is establishing, and He is putting full attention to that goal."

Q’s:

1. How would you define “the lost sheep of the house of Israel”?
2. In “the covenant” as you describe, how do Jews answer your salvation and how that happens?

 

[Lenten_ashes1]

At some point I knew i was no longer protestant. I was either Catholic or Orthodox and the Orthodox seemed a bit too ethnic, imo.

So I said I’m 90% Catholic…I’ll go through RCIA and trust God with the other 10%.

Things that drew me to the Church were scriptures that did not make much sense to me as a protestant Christian. There is this Church that Jesus made promises to…and gave authority to forgive or retain sin and make important decisions. (John 20/Matt 16/18/ACTS 15, etc) So where is this church? And if i doesn’t exist anymore then Jesus didn’t exactly keep his promises. And since Jesus is God and God changes not, It’s not likely he let the Catholic Church fall off a cliff.

Church Fathers were another biggie. I mean if the Church fell off, it had to have happened VERY early. The probability of this is not high, imo

 

[LeahInancsi]

My grandmother was raised Catholic, but left the Church when she married my grandfather. Unfortunately, there was no other religion in particular to follow, but I knew I believed in God. My grandmother was the Rock in our family and I felt she got her strength from her Catholic upbringing. Also, Catholicism was all I knew. I was a natural.

 

[Ioana]

Well a series of events and/or the hand of the Holy Spirit would be my answer. Like life unfolded and then I thought I’d experiment this whole being Catholic thing and prove to myself how silly it is. I ended up realizing it isn’t silly at all, that God is real, loving, that Jesus is the only begotten Son and that the fullness of grace rests in the Catholic Church. Weird stuff from one really set on evangelizing Protestant, to the death of a loved one to a fit of guilt are examples of events that led me to Christianity and to Catholicism.

Btw your story is quite interesting especially this time of the year.

 

[goodcatholic]

I’m not a convert but in some ways I wish I had the Bible knowledge that many Protestants have.

 

[AnnetteJoan]

That was because the message of salvation was to be presented to the Jew FIRST, it was to give as many Jews as would accept Christ the chance, before the message would then go to the rest of the world. As Romans 11 tells us, their is a veil (parochet) over the eyes of most Jews now, until the fullness of the Gentiles meant to be saved come in, and then in the end of days, the parochet will be lifted and they will see (Zechariah 14).

As we know, most Jews rejected their Messiah, and even pressured their Roman overseers to crucifiy Him. However as God planned, there is a remnant of Jews in every generation who have accepted faith in Christ.

 

[NuclearReceptor]

According to Judaism, is the Messiah also expected to be God Incarnate and born of a Virgin?

 

[meltzerboy2]

Neither. The Messiah is NOT supposed to be G-d; he is supposed to be a human being, born in the usual way, who brings peace to the world, ushers in the return of the Jews to their homeland, and intensifies, renews the studying of the Torah by Jews. He is not meant to demand the conversion of the Gentiles to Judaism; however, the world will, finally, realize the truth of Judaism and so many might convert though they need not. The most important thing is the teaching and practice of moral principles by all the nations of the world, who will live in peace and harmony.

 

[robertlnorman]

At the time of my conversion, while I was not enduring any physical ailments yet, I did ask the question, why do the good suffer?

I tried many protestant churches on for size, but Jesus always seemed so far away.

I went to one Catholic mass and felt the real presence of Christ for the first time in my life.

 

[AnnetteJoan]

That’s what rabbinic Judaism teaches. In the time of Jesus, there were actually many various schools of thought, everything from the Parushim to the Essenes.