If you are a convert, what drew you to the Church?

  • Thread starter Thread starter AnnetteJoan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I highly suggest you get a copy of Derekh Hashem (The Way of God) by the Ramchal (Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto). He states it right in there that Gentiles who are righteous go to the next world but only as servants to the Jews. It seems since you never grew up in or practiced Orthodox Judaism, you don’t know any of this. Keep in mind that Orthodoxy is the original Judaism. The non-Orthodox say that the righteous Gentiles have a share in the world to come, period. Either they changed the traditional Jewish view, or they are leaving off the “how” do they have a share.

On this forum the “warts” of the Catholic Church are often exposed, and that’s fine. So why can’t the same be done with Judaism?
 
Last edited:
As I mentioned, I attended an Orthodox shul as a young man. My home life was Conservative although my grandparents were Orthodox. I went to Hebrew school and was taught by an Orthodox rabbi, and I can assure you there was no mention of Gentiles’ being servants to Jews. The original Jews were not Orthodox: you said so yourself that Rabbinical Judaism is not the same as Ancient Judaism. The latter was made up of Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and several other sects, each with their own beliefs.
 
@AnnetteJoan ans @meltzerboy2 Christ came to break down
“the dividing wall of hostility between Jew and Gentile” so the
two camps are ONE now in Christ! see Eph. 2:14,16
 
Last edited:
I attended an Orthodox day school until I was 18, so maybe I had more time to learn than you did.

Like I said, get a copy of Derekh Hashem by the Ramchal. Its about $18.00 and available from Feldheim Publishers. Its goes into great detail about what traditional Judaism teaches, and both of what I mentioned are in there. You can even get it on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Way-God-Classics-Library-English/dp/087306769X

After reading it, come back and tell me whether I am right or not.
 
Expose away! But what about the moral teachings of Judaism; why only the negative things? Why not some kind of balanced approach? Well, I believe I already know the answer to that. After all, people don’t usually convert unless they had problems with their original faith due to what they were taught and what they experienced.
 
I converted because I was turned off to the negatives in Orthodoxy, and because I had discovered Jesus Christ. I wanted to find God’s TRUTH, and Judaism did not feel like it. I was turned off to the teachings that Jews only matter, and that Gentiles don’t unless they can benefit Jews in some way. I was turned off to the negative comments I often heard about Gentiles, not only from other Chasidim, but from secular Jews too, when I would come across them. I disliked expressions like “shiksa” and “goyishe kop”. I was a questioner and a seeker, I was not satisfied with rabbis who told me to just do the mitzvos and not ask why, because Am Yisrael had said to Moshe Rabbeinu, “ve’naaseh ve’nishmah” (we will do and we will hear), meaning, by rabbinic interpretation, that we should do the mitzvah and not worry about what it means, since Am Yisrael said “we will do” before they said “we will hear”.

Are YOU here to genuinely learn, or to make sure Gentiles don’t find out everything about Judaism, warts and all? I believe in talking about it ALL. The positives are well known, so there is no need for me to detail them here. But the negatives are hardly known, and well hidden.
 
Last edited:
I will look into this book. However, since when does the writing of one rabbi, no matter how eminent, define Judaism, even one stream of Judaism? You must be well aware of the controversies within rabbinical writings.
 
I am not a member of a Catholic forum to learn about Judaism! I am here to learn about Catholicism, which I have, and I also enjoy discussing and debating different political views on the World News forum. May I also ask why YOU are here? To learn more about Catholicism and find companionship among fellow Catholics, or to be critical of Judaism?
 
The RAMCHAL is similar to the RAMBAM. Not exactly “just one rabbi”. But then if you had been an Orthodox Jew, you’d have known that.
 
I totally agree! And THAT was the main thing I loved about Christianity, there was no more “us vs them”.
 
Notice I did say “no matter how eminent.” Even the Rambam had and has his opponents. There were, and are, different schools of Judaism.
 
Ask any reputable Orthodox rabbi if Judaism teaches that to love ones neighbor as onesself only applies to other Jews. The rabbis interpreted it that way because in many passages of the Torah, distinction is made between Gentiles and “your brother”, meaning another Jew.

Ask any reputable Orthodox rabbi HOW gentiles will have a share in the olam ha’ba (world to come). Not WHETHER they will be there, but what will they be DOING there. 🙂

You know, when I became a Christian and read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it all clicked. Jesus said that the greatest commandments are to love God, and to love your neighbor as yourself. But then the Jews asked Jesus, But who is our neighbor? I recognized right away, based on what I had already learned of Jewish teaching, that they were testing Him, to see if He would give the rabbinic answer! But instead, he gave the example of a man beaten by robbers, and first a Kohen (priestly class, even today the Kohanim get the best seats in the synagogue and the first aliyahs to the Torah) comes by and does nothing, Then a Levi comes by, again, nothing. But then a hated Shomron (Samaritan) comes by, helps the man, and Jesus asks which one of those acted as neighbor to the man beaten by robbers?
 
Last edited:
But your explanation for doing mitzvahs is incomplete. By doing first, the behavior can change the heart and mind; rather than, often unsuccessfully, trying to change heart and mind first. It is very much in keeping with a behavioral approach in psychology. It is also applicable to many things in life: for example, antidiscrimination laws, in which obedience comes first, with the hope that understanding will follow.
 
That is part of why they think you should do the mitzvah even before you know why, but to me that was empty works. In the Catholic Faith, even though Catholics are often falsely accused by protestants as “working their way to heaven”, the fact is that by our works we show our faith.
 
You must be aware that Hillel the Elder, a generation before Jesus, summarized Torah teaching in that way: love G-d and love your neighbor, and all the rest is commentary. Hillel did NOT mean only Jews.
 
And when children learn their times tables before they understand the meaning of it, is that likewise empty learning? No, they may not yet be ready to understand until later in their cognitive development.
 
Dan_Defender said:
And remember it is the only Church that can be traced back to Jesus himself. Protestants did not appear until the 15th century. And for the first 300 years, most Christians died for the faith. It is a miracle of history that Catholic Christianity survived and flourished.
Click to expand...
This and reading the Church Fathers, especially about the Doctrine of the Real Presence in the Eucharist
 
Maybe not, but rabbinic (Orthodox) Judaism believes it applies only to other Jews, because other Torah passages reference “your brother” and distinguishes them from Gentiles.
 
Indeed we are drawn…no one goes to the Father except thru the Son, and no one goes to the Son, unless drawn by the Father.

Now I am thinking about your question, and I was drawn to the Son, who put me in a church…pretty sure church was secondary and a nickel dime issue compared to the million dollar issue at hand…whom was Christ to me and my spiritual awakening out of death.

The Spirit convicts of three things, our sin nature (mine), judgement to come (mine), and of His righteousness (and goodness, towards me).

peace
 
Last edited:
AnnetteJoan said:
For me it was various things, but one thing that sto od out for me was the belief in redemptive suffering.

At the time of my conversion, while I was not enduring any physical ailments yet, I did ask the question, why do the good suffer?
Click to expand...
What a Beautiful gift of right understanding.

I have been an active Catholic Catechist for nearly 30 years and this is a FIRST for me.

May our Loving and Personal God continue ti guide your life path,

Blessings,
Patrick
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top