If you CAN'T avoid sinning, is it still a sin?

[Sir_Knight]

I was always taught that in order for something to be a sin, a person must know that it is a sin and must want to do it. Suppose you know that something is a sin and really don’t want to do it but have no way out and consciously do it. Is it still a sin?

For example … Let’s say it’s Ash Wednesday or Good Friday and that fact totally slips your mind. You go to supper with friends and order a thick steak. As you are about to take the first bite, it suddenly hits you that it is Ash Wednesday (or Good Friday). Assuming the place does not provide doggie bags for you to take the food home to eat on a later day, what do you do?

If you would have eaten the steak before remembering it was Ash Wednesday (or Good Friday), there would have been no sin in that because you weren’t conscious of committing a sin but now that you know, it’s a different story. If you eat the steak, you are INTENTIONALLY eating meat on a day that you are not suppose to and if you don’t eat it, you are wasting food which is also a sin.

Back to the orignal question – if you know that something is a sin and really don’t want to do it but have no way out and consciously do it anyway, is it still a sin?

 

[Reepicheep]

“wasting food which is also a sin”…If the reason you don’t eat the steak is that eating the steak would be a sin, then you are not “wasting the steak”…you are just refusing to commit a sin.
Even if the steak has to be thrown out (wasted), given that the only way not to “waste” it would be to commit the sin of eating it, and given that you never have a “duty” to sin, you have no non-sinful way to prevent the “waste”…so you aren’t guilty of any sin for not eating it.

 

[Youngcatholic]

For example … Let’s say it’s Ash Wednesday or Good Friday and that fact totally slips your mind. You go to supper with friends and order a thick steak. As you are about to take the first bite, it suddenly hits you that it is Ash Wednesday (or Good Friday). Assuming the place does not provide doggie bags for you to take the food home to eat on a later day, what do you do?

I think at that point you couldn’t eat the steak-- since you realized it before eating it. For instance, one time during Lent on a Friday I drove to Burger King. I realized after ordering a Burger that it was Lent and I couldn’t have it. Well, I was too lazy and didn’t want to inconvenience the staff, so I went and ate the Burger anyways (plus, I really wanted it!). That was a sin that I had to confess. Same thing with the steak. At that point you could apologize to the waitress and explain that you can’t have meat for religious reasons, and offer to pay for that meal and order a new one. It huge pain, but what can you do?

 

[tdandh26]

Just a quick point, Most of the Saints would have rather died than to have commited one venial sin. Why?, because every single sin played a part in the suffering of Christ, and their love for their saviour was to the point as if it was them who was doing the scourging and nailing.

Lastly even one venial sin, is an eternal offense commited against our eternal Creator, thus demanding an eternal payment which only Christ could make good through His suffering for it. The point is one venial sin is enough to seperate us from Heaven, except that Christ paid that debt.

 

[Sir_Knight]

But wasting the food is STILL a sin as well.

 

[tdandh26]

Get it boxed to go and save it till the next day. Then order a more appropriate meal.

 

[Sir_Knight]

And if, as I pointed out above, the place does not provide dogie bags to take food home, what then?

 

[maryalene]

Sir Knight:

And if, as I pointed out above, the place does not provide dogie bags to take food home, what then?

Maybe you could ask for extra napkins or plastic wrap from the kitchen and wrap it yourself to take home. It would be messy and not an ideal solution but then you wouldn’t be wasting food. Or you could keep a container in your trunk for occassions such as this.

I think if you are placed in a situation where you have no choice but do something that might be a sin (rape would be an extreme example) than it is not a sin. However, I think in a lot of situations, there are a number of options available, even if they aren’t particularly great options.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Now we’re getting somewhere …

maryalene:

I think if you are placed in a situation where you have no choice but do something that might be a sin (rape would be an extreme example) than it is not a sin. However, I think in a lot of situations, there are a number of options available, even if they aren’t particularly great options.

… so you are saying that if you know that two actions are sinful but you have no way of avoiding both of them, then it is not a sin if you intentionally do one of them?

 

[BillP]

Sir Knight:

Now we’re getting somewhere … … so you are saying that if you know that two actions are sinful but you have no way of avoiding both of them, then it is not a sin if you intentionally do one of them?

Theoretically, with a very strict definition of no way of avoiding, yes.

But I emphasize the very strict part. Because all sins require consent. While this might theoretically be true, I can’t think of a single scenario where it would be true practically. Certainly not in your steak scanario. Like many others here, I’ve forgotten about the Friday rule until I actually received the food, in fact once I got half-way through the burger. But when I realized I tossed the food and started over with somethign appropriate. I didn’t see that as wasting food.

Plus, I’m not sure wasting food is actually a sin. Which commandment would it violate?

 

[precious_roy]

Well, I cannot comment on whether it violates a commandment. However, I do say a prayer before every meal that I eat, thanking God for providing me with sustenance to keep me alive. I would think it ironic to thank God for his grace and then proceed to throw it in the trash.

 

[maryalene]

Sir Knight:

Now we’re getting somewhere … … so you are saying that if you know that two actions are sinful but you have no way of avoiding both of them, then it is not a sin if you intentionally do one of them?

That would be my non-expert opinion on the matter. http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/ani/ani_yup.gif

It would be interesting if you posted this question in the Ask an Apologist forum to see what the expert opinion is. (Maybe if they agree with me, I can get a job out of the deal. http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

 

[Youngcatholic]

Sir Knight, I think you are being overscrupulous over this imaginary situation. If you ate the meat on Good Friday with full knowledge and full consent, it would be a mortal sin. If you realize or remember that it is Good Friday after your steak order arrives at the table, your obligation would be to order a different meal and perhaps run the risk of throwing away the steak if there is no doggy bag. Perhaps you could pass the steak onto someone else at the table who would eat it (assuming they were not Catholic). Like someone else said, it can’t be a mortal sin to throw away a steak if you were not intentionally being wasteful of the meal. In any event, it seems like the discussion is being overanalyzed. God only asks that we do the best we can without being nuts over it.

 

[thistle]

Everyone seems to be concentrating on whether eating the steak or not would be a mortal sin on Ash Wednesday or Good Friday but you anyway do not have to refrain from eating meat on these days. These are days of fasting and penance. Fasting does not mean no meat (it means only one main meal) and penance can be a number of things of which no meat is a choice.

CCC 1438 The seasons and days of penance in the course of the liturgical year (Lent, and each Friday in memory of the death of the Lord) are intense moments of the Church’s penitential practice.36 These times are particularly appropriate for spiritual exercises, penitential liturgies, pilgrimages as signs of penance, voluntary self-denial such as fasting and almsgiving, and fraternal sharing (charitable and missionary works).

 

[Homebrew_roots]

I definately think there is some scrupulous talk here. First off, I dont think wasting food is a sin. Especially in the situation stated. But yeah, i think if you got the steak then realized what day it is you have an obligation to not eat meat. If they dont provide carryout boxes you have two choices: 1. Throw it out/give it away. 2. Stick the stupid thing in your pocket. It doesnt matter which you do. I cannot comprehend how it would be wasting (which i still dont think is a sin) to throw it away in that situation.

 

[thistle]

Homebrew_roots:

I definately think there is some scrupulous talk here. First off, I dont think wasting food is a sin. Especially in the situation stated. But yeah, i think if you got the steak then realized what day it is you have an obligation to not eat meat. If they dont provide carryout boxes you have two choices: 1. Throw it out/give it away. 2. Stick the stupid thing in your pocket. It doesnt matter which you do. I cannot comprehend how it would be wasting (which i still dont think is a sin) to throw it away in that situation.

With hundreds of millions in the world starving I think wasting food at any time is immoral.

 

[Homebrew_roots]

Moms always say that to their kids to get them to eat dinner. And kids always have the same response: “This food isnt getting to them either way so who cares if i eat it or not?”

I agree with the kids. Not to sound cold-hearted, but its true. Kids arent starving in other countries because I threw a steak away. They are starving for much much larger, governmental reasons not from people who throw away a little food.

 

[thistle]

Homebrew_roots:

Moms always say that to their kids to get them to eat dinner. And kids always have the same response: “This food isnt getting to them either way so who cares if i eat it or not?”

I agree with the kids. Not to sound cold-hearted, but its true. Kids arent starving in other countries because I threw a steak away. They are starving for much much larger, governmental reasons not from people who throw away a little food.

Money is spent on buying the food that is then wasted. The money would have been better spent giving it to a charity to feed the hungry children in the world.

 

[jjb5985]

I agree as I’m sure most would that “wasting” food for absolutely no reason isn’t a good thing to do whether immoral or not. As far as spending money on wasted food that could go to charity, I think that is a valid point. However, taken to an extreme for a potentially scrupulous person, “money not going to charity” could be applied to just about anything we spend money on that we don’t absolutely need or end up using.

Wasting money or food purposely for no good reason would never be a good idea of course. That isn’t the point here though. Not to many people go to the store to buy food and then throw it away when they get home for no reason. The “wasting” of food is usually done because there is a reason. The food can’t be saved and the person is full or it has gone bad or something. (or they got meat on a lenten friday) So, there is a valid reason to get rid of it. It isn’t ideal, but I doubt it is immoral when the circumstance demands it. Otherwise, you could argue that if you were to lets say force yourself to eat food when you were full in order to not waste it, you are commiting the sin of gluttony by eating in excess when your body doesn’t want it and you contribute to potential obesity and the health problems with it. That arguement is about as valid as saying throwing the steak away is a sin. So you’d be in a lose/lose with this sort of thinking. As a scrupulous person myself, I know all about this type of unhealthy thinking and really if the situation demands some sort of compromise (force yourself to eat/waste food) just deal with it however you feel is best and go on as it is hardly grave enough to worry about.

Now in THIS particular situation, there IS a potentially grave matter at hand and it should be taken more seriously. Try to save the steak if you can or give it away, but if you can’t, so be it. Get rid of it in favor of not commiting that established and known serious sin of knowingly eating meat on a day you shouldn’t vs. the minor and very questionably “sinful” getting rid of something you payed for and decided not to use. It isn’t like steak is a non-renewable resource.

 

[jjb5985]

Although I’m not an apologist, anytime you were “forced” to commit any sin, there would be no sin. That includes being forced to choose between one sin and another. However, this situation has many options although we often tend to see things as two choice situations. I would assume if a person were truly forced between two sinful actions, then there would be no sin and the person should choose the lesser of two evils. That is just a best guess. As always, no sin or serious sin can be commited without the acting of free will.