C
Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Tibbar said:
Well, I’m not quite sure how being a former seminarian is relevent…but innyhoo…
Anyone else COC that can tell me what drew then to the Catholic Church and away from COC?
In Christ,
Nancy
- Status
Well, I’m not quite sure how being a former seminarian is relevent…but innyhoo…
Anyone else COC that can tell me what drew then to the Catholic Church and away from COC?
In Christ,
Nancy
R
RCCDefender
Guest
It’s a good thing the first Christians and Judao-Christians didn’t have this attitude about the scandal among Jesus’ chosen disciples!
Do you really believe that is what Christ came to establish on Earth? A bunch of individuals with ‘Just me and Jesus’ attitudes? Do you really think you can infallibly interpret the Scriptures and lead these people into all truth?
I am only concerned for you. I don’t understand why you became Catholic if you had all these problems with the Church. Maybe you can elaborate on that.
I think it would be better for a man to have never come to the True Church than to come home to it and then leave… This is only my humble opinion. I will pray for you.
D
davy39
Guest
My wife did, and I didn’t try to twist her arm or sway her in any way. Besides, her brother is a Nazarene minister. All she said in the beginning is that the CC made sense. She didn’t believe the teachings of the CofC. She went through an excellant RCIA program, and joined the church. Praise God!Well, I’m not quite sure how being a former seminarian is relevent…but innyhoo…
Anyone else COC that can tell me what drew then to the Catholic Church and away from COC?
In Christ,
Nancy
A
allisonP
Guest
I have been a member of the church of christ 24 years.
And here I am on a Catholic forum.
I love the people at the church I am a memer of. They are what have kept me a member this long.
The thing is though that I have not been attending for a while.
I just don’t see the point. I think that since I am saved,(what I have always believed) then why bother going to church?
There are other things I would rather do.
I know this sounds horrible. It is. But it is the truth.
I am on here because I feel as though I am being called here.
I don’t know if I agree with all the teaching of the Catholic church or not.
But I feel as though I am supposed to keep learning about it and that God will show me the truth.
In answer to the questions about the CofC I will tell you what I know.
The Church of Christ is a non-denominational church.
Meaning there is no “head” other then Christ.
No board of directors.
Each church is autonomous.
They practice salvation comes from Christ and that being baptized is a comandment.
Submersion being the only acceptable form because it was the only way mentioned in the bible. And that immediatly after confessing your faith you must be baptized.
The Lords supper(communion) is given every sunday morning (sunday evening and wednsday as well if you missed it sunday morninig).
Some have musical instraments most don’t. Just singing. It is actually very pretty although I like instraments as well.
The one I am a member of is pretty liberal.
Some are very strict. Almost cultish. Some will tell you that if you have a musical instrament in your service your sinning. If you have a bible class in the same building you hold worship in, your sinning. If you divorce your spouse and remarry your doomed.Unless you divorce your second spouse and marry the first again. When I fist became a christian the CofC I attended was like this.
The one I am a member of now is not like this. In fact I often think they should change the name on their sign! yet they are Cof C in that their is no instramental music. Women do not speak from the pulpit nor teach men.
Thats all I can think to tell you about it.
Hope it helps.
Please pray for the Lord to guide me in spirit and in truth. Thanks!
Allie
And here I am on a Catholic forum.
I love the people at the church I am a memer of. They are what have kept me a member this long.
The thing is though that I have not been attending for a while.
I just don’t see the point. I think that since I am saved,(what I have always believed) then why bother going to church?
There are other things I would rather do.
I know this sounds horrible. It is. But it is the truth.
I am on here because I feel as though I am being called here.
I don’t know if I agree with all the teaching of the Catholic church or not.
But I feel as though I am supposed to keep learning about it and that God will show me the truth.
In answer to the questions about the CofC I will tell you what I know.
The Church of Christ is a non-denominational church.
Meaning there is no “head” other then Christ.
No board of directors.
Each church is autonomous.
They practice salvation comes from Christ and that being baptized is a comandment.
Submersion being the only acceptable form because it was the only way mentioned in the bible. And that immediatly after confessing your faith you must be baptized.
The Lords supper(communion) is given every sunday morning (sunday evening and wednsday as well if you missed it sunday morninig).
Some have musical instraments most don’t. Just singing. It is actually very pretty although I like instraments as well.
The one I am a member of is pretty liberal.
Some are very strict. Almost cultish. Some will tell you that if you have a musical instrament in your service your sinning. If you have a bible class in the same building you hold worship in, your sinning. If you divorce your spouse and remarry your doomed.Unless you divorce your second spouse and marry the first again. When I fist became a christian the CofC I attended was like this.
The one I am a member of now is not like this. In fact I often think they should change the name on their sign! yet they are Cof C in that their is no instramental music. Women do not speak from the pulpit nor teach men.
Thats all I can think to tell you about it.
Hope it helps.
Please pray for the Lord to guide me in spirit and in truth. Thanks!
Allie
T
Tibbar
Guest
<It’s a good thing the first Christians and Judao-Christians didn’t have this attitude about the scandal among Jesus’ chosen disciples!>
Jesus’ disciples don’t engage in forbidden sex acts with minors of the same gender and cover it up, do they? The scandal of coming to faith in Christ as Savior and Lord, and Clintonesque-scandals of a sexual nature are not the same are they?
<I am only concerned for you. I don’t understand why you became Catholic if you had all these problems with the Church. Maybe you can elaborate on that.>
I view my parish as mission territory. It is there that I am called to evangelize others. Since the pastor isn’t doing it effectively with his liberal namby-pamby Kumbaya nonsense, I will. God raises those up who listen to Him do His will. Already seeds are being sown. Parishoners respect me and listen to me.
R
RCCDefender
Guest
Listen, I think you should read this article: catholic.com/library/A_Crisis_of_Saints.asp
Just because a few (and, relatively, it is only a few) misguided individuals have done some horrific acts doesn’t make it right for you to risk your soul by turning your back on Christ’s Church. When Christ was arrested how many of His chosen disciples stayed to defend him? Not one. But, they all came back very quickly. The new Christian inquirers didn’t stay away just because Judas raised scandal. I thank God that they looked at the good leaders and saw what exemplary lives they led instead of seeing only the actions of the betrayer.
I think it’s great for you to take an active role in your parish! You can do great things in the Church, but stay in the fold, the Shepherd needs you.
You still haven’t answered my question:I don’t understand why you became Catholic if you had all these problems with the Church. Maybe you can elaborate on that.
Well, maybe it didn’t look like a question, but now I am asking for an answer to that comment.
God bless you and keep you
C
Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Tibbar said:
The bad behavior of individuals within the Church has no more effect on the truth of what the Church teaches than the bad behavior of math teachers would have an effect on whether 2+2=4. You’ve created a false dichotomy.
This next thing I say with true love Tibbar. Pride is seeming to be at work here. We are all called to evangelize, but none of us are called to evangelize anything contrary to what the Church teaches. It sounds like that’s what you’re doing though. Pray for humility Tibbar. Perhaps that will help you in this situation.
In Christ,
Nancy
C
Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Hi Allison!
I AM praying for you! If you need anyone to walk through this with you please PM me and I’ll give you my e-mail or my phone number even so we can talk. I’d like to help you in any way I can.
Where are you by the way?
In Christ,
Nancy
R
RCCDefender
Guest
Allison, welcome to the Catholic forums! I hope you find the answers you are looking for here. Feel free to ask us any question, even if it seems dumb! There are a lot of misconceptions about the Catholic Church. If you want you can also find many answers at catholic.com. There are columns to the left that deal with a lot of Catholic beliefs. Also, scripturecatholic.com is a good source of information.
I highlighted the part about baptism by immersion being the only way mentioned in the Bible because I wondered where that was written…
Actually, the Catholic Church does not allow divorced persons to remarry in the Church, either. The Church does allow for the possibility of having the first marriage “annulled” before a second marriage is entered into; however, this process can take months or possibly even years. My husband had to have his first marriage annulled. It doesn’t mean that the first marriage never happened, just that it wasn’t “sacramental”- it didn’t have the necessary properties to, or there was something hindering it from, being a union that would last forever (I hope I am explaining this correctly).
I will definately pray for you and thanks for the information!!
H
Haldir
Guest
I was a member of the Independent COC/Christian Churches (the kind that allow instruments) for over 30 years. A lot of things led me to the Catholic Church last year, but I only I have time right now to write about one thing. That was that I could no longer believe that the same early church that had been guided by the Holy Spirit in giving us the canon of Scritpure had also been hopelessly apostate. And when I looked to see what the early church looked like, it looked very very Catholic.
Haldir
Haldir
T
TNT
Guest
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!! FOR THE AUDIO SITE.
God Bless
B
BigTurkey
Guest
No problem…it’s really interesting, isn’t it?
-Micah
-Micah
R
RCCDefender
Guest
Just wanted to make sure Tibbar saw this…
T
Tibbar
Guest
I really don’t know why myself. I suppose it was convenience coupled with the hope that the Church had actually changed for the better since I left. I had seen an article in a local paper and it looked as if this parish had big plans. The Pastor made it sound as if the Church was about to experience renewal and revival. I wanted to be part of that in my local area rather than have to drive for miles on end to a solid evangelical Christian community.
Now I find myself just going through the motions. I can’t live out being hypocritical about what I really believe much longer. I am not a liberal. In fact, I don’t like liberals. Having to deal with a liberal Pastor really frosts me. I am even willing to believe things like creationism, and hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible if it means that I won’t have to deal with a liberal pastor anymore.
It is far better that this parish closed it’s door for good and sent the flock elsewhere.
A
allisonP
Guest
When I said ‘mentioned’ I meant that it was the only example.
Jesus was baptized that way, John the Baptist baptized that way.
This is what I have been taught.
I am curious where the sprinkling one is mentioned.
Or is it.??
I forgot to say that CoC believes also that : “We speak where the Bible speaks and we are silent where the Bible is silent.”
It has honestly never crossed my mind that for the longest time there was not written word.
Still I have such a hard time knowing who to trust for prophesy.
I wish I could know that the Pope was truly supposed to be in charge down here!
T
TNT
Guest
RE:"We speak where the Bible speaks and we are silent where the Bible is silent."
I must take exception.
1. Speaks:
1 Cor head covering for women. There has never been any controversy on what that meant and it was considered doctrinal.
“Not so” says the COC. Even though the Bible speaks, it was only custom, for a time and place. Not relevent today. ie Worthless for our time.
2. Silence:
Instrumental music is nowhere commanded in the NT, though some presume it to be approved based on singinging the Psalms which were nearly always accompanied by instruments.
The bible is also silent on its being forbidden.
“Not so” says COC. Instrumental music is a condemned proposition.
3. Use of wine in communion. The bible is plain. No scriptural history OT or NT, ever declared that Jesus meant or even considered wine a grape juice. Nor is there any such appearance in early history.
The whole affair was modeled after the Passover ceremony, which any Jewish scholar will tell you was formented fruit of the vine…WINE.
Re: Sprinkling
I am not aware that the mode of sprinkling is a common practice even today.
The practice today is pouring as normal, but immersion acceptable and unrestricted.
It is the ancient church as far back as 258ad that allows pouring and even sprinkling as a valid mode in cases of necessity, such as desert, bedridden sick. The sprinkle/pouring mode was even referred to as the baptism of the sick.
So, it is true that immersion was normal, the other 2 exceptional, but all 3 always valid. The fact that pouring is more normally used today does not, and never did invalidate a baptism.
Yet, the COC makes a person’s physical position in water a dogma without exception. That was never the case, and history proves it. Even prior to the canon of scripture.
That would be like me insisting COC communion service was a sin BECAUSE you did not recline at table as was done at the Last Supper. Sitting in a pew or using lightbulbs in church is also a sin. No where proposed in scripture.
COC obsesses on rules (VERY selectively) that end up becoming their Rulers. Faith is a faded memory and Grace is obscured because of it. In its place is a religion of fear, and not so much charity.
IMHO of course.
R
RCCDefender
Guest
Can you quote the passage where Jesus is baptized? I don’t think that Scripture says he was immersed or dunked under water…
Read and then ask yourself, could it be possible that the phase “on coming up out of the water” (I know you have a different version that may have a slightly different interpretation) might not mean that He went entirely underneath the water? Rather, could it be possible that He went out to even knee deep water and had the waters poured over Him by John? This would be closer to the customary ritual washings at that time.
I am not trying to say that baptism by immersion is wrong! But pouring is an acceptable method, too. When I was baptised, I stepped into a foot deep pool of water and got on my knees. The priest then poured water over my head three times (I was pretty soaked!), and I “came up from the water.”
Feel free to ask any questions! And PM me or e-mail me If you wish! :bounce:
T
Tibbar
Guest
You are wrong if you believe, as you say, that “for the longest time there was not written word.” I would hope that you would carefully and prayerfully study these matters before jumping out of the COC and into the fire. The COC is hyperlegalistic, to be sure, and they misinterpret some scripture, but at least they restrain themselves from adding to the scriptures.
True believers have ALWAYS had the Scriptures
Catholic apologists sometimes argue the following point.
“…One must admit that before the Bible was compiled as it is now, much of it was passed to people by word of mouth.”
Response:
One must admit no such thing. The written word of God, the scriptures, have always been available to true believers. Not only that, the written word has always been operative in God’s dealing with mankind. The Ten Commandments were written in stone! It wasn’t this memory business. The Jewish people were the careful custodians of the written scriptures:
What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. Romans 3:1-2
Most of us know how carefully the written word was kept by God’s chosen people, Israel.
God has always emphasized the importance of keeping His written word:
This BOOK OF THE LAW SHALL NOT DEPART OUT OF THY MOUTH; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is WRITTEN therein… Joshua 1:8
Psalm 119 is the longest chapter in the Bible and it is ALL about the importance of knowing the scriptures.
But what about in the New Testament? Jesus read from the BOOK Isaiah in the synagogue:
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the BOOK of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was WRITTEN,
Paul read the gospel of JESUS IN THE WRITTEN WORD! Listen:
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES
We know Timothy had the WRITTEN word of the gospel as a child:
…from a child thou hast known the holy SCRIPTURES, which ARE ABLE TO MAKE THEE WISE UNTO SALVATION THROUGH FAITH WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS. 2 Timothy 3:15
The Bereans didn’t just listen to what the apostles said, but they compared their teaching to the SCRIPTURES to see if those things were so.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11
We are told in the New Testament to study the word and RIGHTLY divide it. That means don’t be misinterpreting! Tell the truth about the Bible, not lies:
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15
Well, what is the truth? Jesus told us:
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 17:17
I could go on and on examining this issue of us true believers always having the scriptures…
The apostles’ WRITTEN epistles were read to the churches (e.g., James, Hebrew, Thessalonians, Colossians, etc.)
Peter referred to Paul’s epistles as SCRIPTURE.
The Ethiopian eunuch was READING THE SCRIPTURES when Philip came up to his chariot.
T
Tibbar
Guest
Jesus accepted John’s baptism…a baptism unto repentence. In doing so, he was obedient to the Lord’s command, though he knew no sin and had nothing to publicly repent of. Jesus never baptized anyone. When a person comes to Christ, he or she is baptized into Christ. A formal symbolic act of water baptism as a public witness to Christ is done in obedience to the Lord’s command, not to gain salvation through the act (as most COC’s believe).
C
Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Hi Allison!
If you think about it this really isn’t true. A few example are:
The bible is SILENT about which forms of baptism are valid or not valid. Yes, Jesus was immersed, which certainly speaks to its validity, but scripture says absolutely NOTHING about immersion being the ONLY valid form of baptism. Yet, the COC claims that immersion is the only valid form of baptism anyway.
The bible is SILENT about carrying a bible to church. In fact, the NT Christians didn’t have bibles to carry to church. But isn’t that something COC’s do?
The bible doesn’t authorize the writing of a New Testament and is completely SILENT about which books should be included in it. Don’t COC’s use the New Testament anyway and accept as inspired only those books in the New Testament?
The New Testament Christians met in the temple to hear the word of God and in each other’s homes for communion. The bible is SILENT about, and certainly doesn’t authorize, meeting anywhere else. But don’t COC’s meet in a church building or meeting room anyway?
The bible says NOTHING about speaking where the bible speaks and remaining silent where the bible is silent but the COC makes this claim anyway.
While the COC makes the claim that it speaks where the bible speaks and is silent where the bible is silent it’s clear that, in practice, that really isn’t true at all.
In Christ,
Nancy
- Status