If you could have picked a Pope for the 20th Century

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pope_Noah_I
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

Pope_Noah_I

Guest
…Who would it have been? I would have changed the outcome of the 1958 Conclave to either Eugene Cardinal Tisserant or Grégoire-Pierre Cardinal Agagianian. I love Blessed John XXIII, but I doubt either of these two would have called for Vatican II at such an inopportune time in history.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
…Who would it have been? I would have changed the outcome of the 1958 Conclave to either Eugene Cardinal Tisserant or Grégoire-Pierre Cardinal Agagianian. I love Blessed John XXIII, but I doubt either of these two would have called for Vatican II at such an inopportune time in history.
Click to expand...
Cardinal Agagianian would have been a good, maybe even excellent choice, as would Cardinal Siri or Archbishop Lefebvre, or Cardinal Slipyj, had the latter been free.
 
An Eastern-Rite Pope would have been great. But Lefebvre wasn’t even a Cardinal, was he?
 
I think that Grégoire-Pierre Cardinal Agagianian would have made an excellent choice. Imagine, an Eastern Catholic Pope. The possibilities would have been endless!

John XXIII was a very good Pope- it was Paul VI who just wasn’t meant for the job. I wish John XXIII would just have lived that little bit longer… he only oversaw one session of VII, you know. And he forbade any documents from being made. He simply told the bishops to talk.
 
JuanCarlos said:
I think that Grégoire-Pierre Cardinal Agagianian would have made an excellent choice. Imagine, an Eastern Catholic Pope. The possibilities would have been endless!

John XXIII was a very good Pope- it was Paul VI who just wasn’t meant for the job. I wish John XXIII would just have lived that little bit longer… he only oversaw one session of VII, you know. And he forbade any documents from being made. He simply told the bishops to talk.
Click to expand...
Can you imagine a High Papal Divine Liturgy? It gives me goosebumps just thinking about it…
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
An Eastern-Rite Pope would have been great. But Lefebvre wasn’t even a Cardinal, was he?
Click to expand...
He was not, but any Catholic male can be elected.

Also, about Cardinal Tisserant, he did some great work for the eastern churches, especially the Ethiopic Rite. Some have alleged however that he was involved in the Vatican-Moscow agreement of 1962. The kowtowing to the Moscow Patriarchate began around this time, which has been dreadful for the eastern churches.
 
Definitely Cardinal Siri. He was very orthodox and very Traditional. If he would have been elected in 1958, he would have been Pope for 31 years, and it would have been the second longest Papal reign right behind Bl. Pius IX. There are some who even claim he was elected, in '58, '63, and '78. Some wild claims to say the least. The Church would probably find itself in a far different situation today had Cardinal Siri been Pope.
 
jj2011 said:
He was not, but any Catholic male can be elected.

Also, about Cardinal Tisserant, he did some great work for the eastern churches, especially the Ethiopic Rite. Some have alleged however that he was involved in the Vatican-Moscow agreement of 1962. The kowtowing to the Moscow Patriarchate began around this time, which has been dreadful for the eastern churches.
Click to expand...
How so?
 
If I Had My Wish I Would Have Wished Pope Saint Pius X To Live Forever—man Was He Awesome!!!

Pope Saint Pius X Pray For Us Please!!!
 
Maybe there aren’t that many that want the job?

I would like to see a Pope with a lot of Zeal, to me this is the best quality or an important one for a Pope.

And he should be a people person smiling all the time and friendly.
D.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
How so?
Click to expand...
Stalin killed thousands of Ukrainian Catholic priests, and tried to annex the rest to the Moscow Patriarchate by force.

If you read the works of good Ukrainian Catholics like Josyp Terelya (23 years in the Gulag), they’ll tell you that Moscow Patriarchate priests had to collaborate with the KGB.

Nowadays, false ecumenism requires heretical statements like “Balamand,” declarations that Catholic prelates in Russia are not “proselytizing,” and, in deference to Moscow, the refusal to recognize a Ukrainian Catholic patriarchate even though the Ukrainian Catholic Church is the largest Catholic Eastern church.

We must pray for the conversion of Russia and Ukraine to the true faith, and we’re called “pre-Vatican II” or fundamentalists, so be it.
 
jj2011 said:
Stalin killed thousands of Ukrainian Catholic priests, and tried to annex the rest to the Moscow Patriarchate by force.

If you read the works of good Ukrainian Catholics like Josyp Terelya (23 years in the Gulag), they’ll tell you that Moscow Patriarchate priests had to collaborate with the KGB.

Nowadays, false ecumenism requires heretical statements like “Balamand,” declarations that Catholic prelates in Russia are not “proselytizing,” and, in deference to Moscow, the refusal to recognize a Ukrainian Catholic patriarchate even though the Ukrainian Catholic Church is the largest Catholic Eastern church.

We must pray for the conversion of Russia and Ukraine to the true faith, and we’re called “pre-Vatican II” or fundamentalists, so be it.
Click to expand...
Oh, right. I remember rumors that Patriarch Alexy II was a KGB agent.
 
I think Paul VI did a fine job. It’s just his brother bishops who took it too far implementing the spirit of Vatican II, rather than implementing Vatican II.
 
Semper_Fi said:
I think Paul VI did a fine job. It’s just his brother bishops who took it to far implementing the spirit of Vatican II, rather than implementing Vatican II.
Click to expand...
I would have to disagree with that. He let Protestants help make the NO, he allowed Communion in the hand, and did a whole bunch of other things that were (in my ever humble opinion) unneccesary.
 
Pope_Noah_I said:
I would have to disagree with that. He let Protestants help make the NO, he allowed Communion in the hand, and did a whole bunch of other things that were (in my ever humble opinion) unneccesary.
Click to expand...
I’m not the biggest Paul VI fan by any means, but in his defense he was very indecisive. Bl. John XXIII even called him “our Hamlet,” referring to his indecisiveness. He wrote a private note about himself:

“What is my state of mind? Am I Hamlet? Or Don Quixote? On the left? On the right? I do not think I have been properly understood.”

It is apparent he suffered from indecisiveness. Just remember some of the good things he did, like sternly argue against the ordination of women, and humanae vitae.
 
Well, he abolished a liturgy that had organically evolved over a period of 1900 years and replaced it with a brand new one…

He abolished a lot of time honored traditions that made Catholics Catholic- no meat on Fridays, the fasting, etc.

He changed the liturgical calender to the point of making it unrecognizable.

All in all, he just really… I can’t even begin. Between him and Alexander VI, I would really be stumped as to who I’d rather have.

But I accept I could be wrong- somehow, maybe God really wanted Paul to be Pope
 
JuanCarlos said:
Well, he abolished a liturgy that had organically evolved over a period of 1900 years and replaced it with a brand new one…

He abolished a lot of time honored traditions that made Catholics Catholic- no meat on Fridays, the fasting, etc.

He changed the liturgical calender to the point of making it unrecognizable.

All in all, he just really… I can’t even begin. Between him and Alexander VI, I would really be stumped as to who I’d rather have.

But I accept I could be wrong- somehow, maybe God really wanted Paul to be Pope
Click to expand...
I agree completely. He did away with many timeless traditions in the Church, much to the detriment of the Faith. I believe he had good intentions, but was misguided. I don’t doubt that he will probably go down as the “worst” Pope of the last 200 years, if not longer. I was just pointing that he did do some good things during his Papacy, of least of which he will be remembered for Humanae Vitae.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top