If you don't know about AA and the 12 steps

[Seeker_Of_Truth]

i think whenever you admit you are powerless over anything, you have already lost.

We have to put this into the context of AA and alcoholism. AA is not made up of only one step, “Came to admit that we were powerless over alcohol , that our lives had become unmanageable.” “OK. Now go home!” No, no. That’d be terrible! That step is immediately tied to the next two: coming to believe that a Higher Power could restore us to sanity and then turning our lives over to this Higher Power. So it is connected with hope!

The idea of powerlessness in step one is connected to the alcoholism. It is not saying, “you are powerless to do *anything *in life. You no longer have the power to see, hear, speak, taste, or feel.” At this point, it is suggesting that you are powerless over the addiction, over remaining sober from it in the long haul. And then it is suggesting that a Higher Power can give you the strength you lack.

In my case, attending a program like AA (SA) has been humbling - it has been humbling because it has allowed me to face the reality about myself. And is so doing this, it has made me a better Catholic, because never in my life had I turned to God like I had until then. Before my mentality overall in life was “I can handle this, God. Thanks, but no thanks.” Now I’m turning to Him daily, because I finally came to realize that I had a cross to bear, that I wanted to carry it, but that it was too heavy for me. Jesus allowed others to carry His cross - why couldn’t I let him? By doing so, the yoke and burden has become “easy and light.”

As one moves deeper into the program, one begins to realize that one is not only powerless over alcohol (or whatever the substance may be), but also to attitudes and actions. No longer having the substance to escape from reality, we see were we stand. This is not to punish ourselves unnecesarily - it is simply looking at ourselves honestly, perhaps for the first time. And when I did so, I came to realize that, like Paul, those things I wanted to do I didn’t do, and those things that I didn’t want to do I did. And so with each one I turn to God, realizing again and again that, in my weakness, I am made strong.

In Catholicism, we are taught that we are sinners. If this is all we focused on, it would be a very negative religion and philosophy. Masochistic, even! But that teaching is tied to the teaching that we have been redeemed, that we are children of God, so you must balance both to lead a healthy spiritual life. So with AA: you are powerless by yourself in recovering from this, but you are not hopeless. Keep the two in mind, and it’s very likely that you’ll start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, like I have.

So, to sum up, let’s look at the context of the powerlessness, and how it is tied to the REST of the program. Otherwise, it is like picking a single verse from Scripture and then forgetting that it has a context within that book and then within the larger context of the Bible as a whole.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Hi everyone. I am wondering what the Catholic community here thinks of AA. I suppose I should post the steps complete, first. (source aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/smf-121_en.pdf)

Personally, I have looked at it and it doesn’t stand up to reason. I would like to take the time to try and study it rationally, and we could start with the first step.
from the horses mouth - aa.org/lang/en/en_pdfs/smf-121_en.pdf

It doesn’t stand up to your reason which appears to be biased already.

I have to discard this based on the following. Claiming that people are powerless can be proven wrong with just one of those people demonstrating power.

This is so simple. The quote says “WE”, not “I”. This is a group program. People are at different levels in their disease. And that’s the way AA treats alcoholism. You can’t see the forest for the trees here A. It’s not meant to be a statement that you can dissect and put your own spin on.

Second, looked at it from a disease perspective (and a fatal one at that because of what it does to a person’s body and mind), this makes sense. If you can’t stop drinking, that means you are powerless to stop it. If you can stop for one day that doesn’t mean you can stop the disease for a lifetime. That’s why there are one day badges and others. Until you are completely free of the disease you are powerless to stop it BY YOURSELF.

The example I have is that some people living with dependancy will choose to stay ‘clean and sober’ for a meeting such as a court date, or a sentencing hearing. This may demonstrate only the slightest bit of power over alcohol, but power it is, falsifying the first step.

That’s your definition of power and is no better than mine. I submit that it is not “power” over the struggle. It’s merely limping through that day.

That a life can be unmanageable is also clearly false. If one had a good management plan and willing execution, what could possibly make a life ‘unmanageable’? (not to mention that many ‘alcoholics’ show various levels of management skills in this area)

There are working alcoholics who seem to survive, hold a regular job and so forth. But that doesn’t mean it’s true. What about their personal life? Can you provide examples or case histories? And remember, this is a group program with people at various levels of the disease. Overall, it’s a good description.

AA has had a virtual monopoly on this subject for quite a while now. I have a little direct experience. While I do not have a problem with alcohol, I have been to many meetings of AA (first in 1981 or 82) and currently about 1/10 of my clients have some kind of substance abuse issue. Many of them attend AA (though the only client I have who has beaten alcohol for any length of time did it with real doctors and no AA).

And this is your “reasoned” approach to the subject? You know better. Your anecdotal evidence doesn’t mean anything. And given your own admission that you have little direct experience tells me that you don’t have a leg to stand on with your arguments.

I hope particularly to get some people discussing this who do NOT have a connection with AA. Those in the AA congregation do not always see the flaws in the core of the program clearly.

Love it - AA “congregation”. This reeks of bias that I spoke of before. If you can’t discuss without bias, how do you expect to exclude people who don’t have a connection with AA? You seem to want to promote your agenda that AA is a failed religious organization based on your own lack of direct experience and seemingly anti-religious attitude.

Peace…

MW

 

[marietta]

“they” marietta means the literature “they” put out in the al-anon program that you follow in your 12 step program.

Do you mean the GSO?

marietta

 

[anon52328184]

i am not sure who GSO is. sorry.

i mean the people who devised the program i guess. whoever wrote it.

i would have to reread what i posted. i can’t remember now what i was referring to from the quote you posted.