If you knew for a fact that life ceased to exist after death, how would you live your life now?

[cooterhein]

Lets say, it was a proven fact that there was no god, no after life, no anything. That when we die, the party is over and lights are out.

How would you live your life differently? I know we all (well, for most members on this board) know that this isn’t the case, but what if it was? How would you live your life different or would it be any different than how you live it now?

Interesting question. When I first read the title, I had in mind a situation where God does exist, but there is no eternal life. If that were the case, I would borrow the Hebrew word “Dayenu” and say “it would have been enough” that God created us and gave us life. Even with no eternal life, I would still owe Him gratitude for the life I have and would live for Him.

If there were no God…well, I think the precepts that God’s laid out for us are things that actually make sense for reasons other than “God said do this” and “God said don’t do that.” Even without a God or these God-given guidelines, I would still do my best to act in my own best interest, and to the extent that it helps me, in the best interest of those around me. My reasoning would be different and it wouldn’t be undergirded by divine revelation. But if the governing authorities were smart about it, if they enforced the law well, and if I was smart about abiding by it, I don’t think I’d live much differently from a moral standpoint. I obviously wouldn’t be involved in church at all, I’d have a moderately different career path, and I wouldn’t have abstained from sex, but aside from those things, I don’t think my behavior would be very different. I don’t think I’d be depressed about it, either.

 

[Phemie]

I’d obviously stop going to Church and I’d have sex with my husband. Other than that, nothing in my life would change because I would still have to live with myself and treating my neighbour other than how I’d want to be treated would just make me miserable.

 

[Big_Dummy]

I Cor 15 eat drink and be merry

 

[cooterhein]

I Cor 15 eat drink and be merry

Eat drink and be merry
For tomorrow we die
Eat drink and be merry
For tomorrow we die
'Cause we’re Tripping Billies.

Dave Matthews Band

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I’d obviously stop going to Church and I’d have sex with my husband. Other than that, nothing in my life would change because I would still have to live with myself and treating my neighbour other than how I’d want to be treated would just make me miserable.

This is the problem with this hypothetical, with out God you would not have the idea of treating your neighbor other than how you want to be treated.

 

[JonNC]

This is the problem with this hypothetical, with out God you would not have the idea of treating your neighbor other than how you want to be treated.

Hi Byz,
I got the idea that the OP was saying, at some point (perhaps recently), the no God scenario was a proven fact. That would not exclude the exisitence of ancient teachings. So, historic codes and laws of conduct, under the OP’s fun little game, seems inbounds to me.

Jon

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hi Byz,
I got the idea that the OP was saying, at some point (perhaps recently), the no God scenario was a proven fact. That would not exclude the exisitence of ancient teachings. So, historic codes and laws of conduct, under the OP’s fun little game, seems inbounds to me.

Jon

Jon,
For me to play this game then if God does not exist then nothing from God exists either.

All those ancient teachings, historic codes, and laws of conduct come from God either through direct revelation from Him or from the natural law that He has written upon His creation.

Can you see where I am coming from?

There is no game saying God doesn’t exist but everything else stays the same. If God doesn’t exist then nothing that comes from God can exist either.

 

[Ichthys4121517]

My goal in life is to have my answer to this question be, “The same way I live already.” In other words, I want to find joy not in spite of my faith, but because of it. I can’t say I know why exactly everything God tells us to do is for our own good, but I can try my best to find out.

 

[stormy99]

**What could I differently but try to be better…no stealing cause it’s against the law and I am law abiding…couldn’t spend more money…in case it runs out…run up a big credit card bill? Don’t think so.

Just be so thankful that there is a God and all will not end.

stormy**

 

[agent_grey]

I only wish there was no life after death. That changes nothing. Either we do the right thing or we don’t.

No God… impossible. I pray that there is no life after death. This world is dispicable and I would be insane to belive the next will be any different.

 

[benidict]

I only wish there was no life after death. That changes nothing. Either we do the right thing or we don’t.

No God… impossible. I pray that there is no life after death. This world is dispicable and I would be insane to belive the next will be any different.

actually my dear friend, i believe i have caught a glimpse of it. and believe me, your gonna like it. can you imagine a place that radiates the light of the Creator? greens brighter than any green you have ever seen. and the flowers? they look so alive. trust me, we wont be floating on fluffy clouds playing harps. its much more than that. i only wish i could have stayed. but, i was given the path to walk which would lead me there. this is but a shadow. there are good things here. yes some things are despicable. i see them every day. but the next world, is infinitly better. and just think, this world will be scrubbed clean when Christ comes back, and there will be a new creation. peace

 

[Phemie]

This is the problem with this hypothetical, with out God you would not have the idea of treating your neighbor other than how you want to be treated.

Why would that be? Those who don’t believe in God don’t necessarily go about beating up on or cheating people. Do you think empathy wouldn’t exist?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Why would that be? Those who don’t believe in God don’t necessarily go about beating up on or cheating people. Do you think empathy wouldn’t exist?

That is because of God. It matters not whether we believe in God or not. God still writes the natural law onto the heart of His creation.

Those who do not know God still have the natural law to follow.

With no God there would be no natural law.

I can see that this is philosophically over the heads of many so let me see if this works.

Remember the movie It’s a Wonderful Life? When George Bailey was removed from life as having his wish that he was never born was granted everything changed. He did not just cease to exist, everything he had touched and influenced during his life changed. Now imagine this with God. God touches and influences everything, even those who choose not to believe in Him, even those who do not have a chance to know Him. So the effect would be great if God did not exist.

We can not imagine such a world as everything is affected by God, to remove His existence without removing His affect is meaningless in this hypothetical.

The question we are answering when we do this, remove God without removing His affect, is really “How would you act if you didn’t believe in life after death or in God,”

 

[Anrando]

Hello,

I must admit to not having read this entire thread, so if my point has already been brought up I beg pardon.

I see some propose that atheists and non-believers are “good and moral” people who follow all the laws etc., and argue that living such a life does not require a belief in G-d. Having been a cop I would suggest it is nothing more than fear of punishment which controls their behavior, not punishment by G-d but punishment NOW by the civil authorities, NOT some desire to be good for goodness sake. Look at post Katrina New Orleans, or any country without civil authority and an effective legal system and you see CHAOS. People without moral direction or fear of retribution descend quite quickly to the level of wild dogs. I’m sorry but that is an observable FACT.

In answer to the OP, if somehow it could be “proved” now that there was no G-d, no “divine retribution” it would still not remove society’s government imposed code of conduct and threat of punishment. People would still control themselves out of fear of being caught and punished. I admit, however; that it would become infinitely more difficult to live in social groups were that to happen as our “animal” natures would have free reign over us. Let’s be honest. FEAR of G-d drives many of us to be better that we would be without our belief system. It is a shame, but fear has always been a great motivator.

If on the other hand, there had never been any belief systems, if man had NEVER had the capacity to seek G-d then we would be wild dogs, and would probably have never been able to develop into societies. We would be no more than wild beasts.

This is probably the primary reason why I believe. I want to believe that man is better than a wild beast, that we are not mere cockroaches. Eat, mate, die, that’s all that’s required to be "biological. I refuse to believe that THAT is all we are. Without G-d there is no LAW, period. Natural law is G-d’s law. Take G-d out of the calculation and there is no civility.

I love secular “sciencism” recently trying to “prove” that chimps show “compassion” as part of their efforts to prove that a divinity is not necessary to explain human behavior. Chimps also eat their children. The believers in the religion of science tend to ignore “inconvenient” facts. Nothing in biology provides an “advantage” to being magnanimous. Biology demands selfishness to survive. Without G-d all that we consider law and rules cease to exist. Religion, and specifically the Catholic religion in the case of Europe and the USA, are responsible for civilization. A belief in devine retribution has always been a very important part of that.

W.Unland

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hello,

I must admit to not having read this entire thread, so if my point has already been brought up I beg pardon.

I see some propose that atheists and non-believers are “good and moral” people who follow all the laws etc., and argue that living such a life does not require a belief in G-d. Having been a cop I would suggest it is nothing more than fear of punishment which controls their behavior, not punishment by G-d but punishment NOW by the civil authorities, NOT some desire to be good for goodness sake. Look at post Katrina New Orleans, or any country without civil authority and an effective legal system and you see CHAOS. People without moral direction or fear of retribution descend quite quickly to the level of wild dogs. I’m sorry but that is an observable FACT.

I stopped reading here because you make a basic mistake.

For what you say to be true you must prove that all those who became “wild dogs” in post Katrina new Orleans or any other place without civil authority are/were atheists and non-believers. If any of them were Christian/Catholic then your premise is off.

 

[snowflakes]

We can not imagine such a world as everything is affected by God, to remove His existence without removing His affect is meaningless in this hypothetical.

The question we are answering when we do this, remove God without removing His affect, is really “How would you act if you didn’t believe in life after death or in God,”

First let me say The whole point in me asking this is to see deep down would you still be the same person or do you think you would live your life differently, regardless of your belief or non-belief in god? This question actually came from a theology course in college many years ago. The professor removed god therefore removing his affect from the question to make the question hypothetical. Infact, it really made people think. Are they living their life to impress god and to be on god’s good side? Or are they living their day to day life because that’s naturally who they are. He had a purpose in stating in this hypo that there is proof and solid evidence that life doesn’t go on after death because as he said “there is a difference between faith in something compared to having solid proof regardless of what your beliefs or non-beliefs are.” (I just pulled some of my old notes which are quite detailed). So, it’s really not the same as saying what if you don’t believe in god.

In this hypo, god is removed therefore removing his affect. If god didn’t exist, his affect wouldn’t exist also. That’s the reason why it’s a hypothetical question. I know you want to keep god in, and by all means you can do that, but for me, I am taking it out by asking, if we had solid evidence that god didn’t exist, therefore if god didn’t exist then his affect wouldn’t exist also, how would you (not you personally) live your life?

At one point I questioned if god existed. And there is a little bit of a question still in me even though I will always say I believe in god. So this question really is a good question to me. I really felt it made me think and look deep in myself. It’s scary to think god not existing but comforting to know he does and his affect does also. Hence it’s a hypothetical question.

 

[Anrando]

Dear ByzCath,

Please do feel free to dismiss anything that I might contribute.

I would point out though that NO my argument does not become invalid because I cannot prove that those that decend to the level of wild dogs are only atheists and non believers.

That wasn’t the point. The point was to show how strong a deterent civil punishment is against bad behavior by intrinsically selfish humans. The example has NOTHING to do with believers or non-believers.

If a person lives his life as a Christian he will NOT so behave. That IS the point. Some beople behave because they are afraid of the police others because they are afraid of offending G-d. THAT was the point you missed because you felt you need read no further.

Fear of punishment NOW or later is what causes us to be civil. That’s all I was trying to say.

Without FEAR of punishment we would all become wild beasts. As biological entities, without a soul, without G-d, we are beasts.

W.Unland

 

[snowflakes]

Dear ByzCath,

Please do feel free to dismiss anything that I might contribute.

I would point out though that NO my argument does not become invalid because I cannot prove that those that decend to the level of wild dogs are only atheists and non believers.

That wasn’t the point. The point was to show how strong a deterent civil punishment is against bad behavior by intrinsically selfish humans. The example has NOTHING to do with believers or non-believers.

If a person lives his life as a Christian he will NOT so behave. That IS the point. Some beople behave because they are afraid of the police others because they are afraid of offending G-d. THAT was the point you missed because you felt you need read no further.

Fear of punishment NOW or later is what causes us to be civil. That’s all I was trying to say.

W.Unland

I just went and read your original post. I agree with you 100%

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Dear ByzCath,

Please do feel free to dismiss anything that I might contribute.

I would point out though that NO my argument does not become invalid because I cannot prove that those that decend to the level of wild dogs are only atheists and non believers.

That wasn’t the point. The point was to show how strong a deterent civil punishment is against bad behavior by intrinsically selfish humans. The example has NOTHING to do with believers or non-believers.

If a person lives his life as a Christian he will NOT so behave. That IS the point. Some beople behave because they are afraid of the police others because they are afraid of offending G-d. THAT was the point you missed because you felt you need read no further.

Fear of punishment NOW or later is what causes us to be civil. That’s all I was trying to say.

Without FEAR of punishment we would all become wild beasts. As biological entities, without a soul, without G-d, we are beasts.

W.Unland

I dismissed what you posted in this case as it make no sense unless you can prove what I asked to be proven.

You started off with a false premise, that atheists and non-believers were the only ones to act like “wild dogs” in places where the civil authorities have fallen. I will give you this point and read the rest of your post if you can show me proof that all of those who did so in the situations you described were atheists and non-believers, that no Christians/Catholics/or other believers in a higher power were guilty of acting like “wild dogs”.

I am sorry that we disagree.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I know you want to keep god in, and by all means you can do that, but for me, I am taking it out by asking, if we had solid evidence that god didn’t exist, therefore if god didn’t exist then his affect wouldn’t exist also, how would you (not you personally) live your life?

I don’'t want to keep God in. I am saying that we can not contemplate an existence without God because all we know is a world with God. God touches everything. Everything would be different without God.

I see you did not comment on my movie reference. I guess it is just too hard to see that God touches and influences everything whether or not we believe in Him.

Now my answer, if I wished to keep God in it would be this, we would not exist so the question you ask is moot. With out God, the Uncaused Cause the universe would not exist at all.

But that was not my answer if you go back to my first post in this thread.