"If you love me, keep my commands...."

[ephesians2]

CONTINUED…

Blood of goats and bulls never pleased God, but “a body you prepared for me” does.

Precisely, and the blood sacrifice that DID please God, Jesus Christ, is Who the natural man rejects. He is a stumbling block and foolishness to him (the man in the flesh). I Corinthians1 and 2

1. Thus their faith in God by submission of the flesh does not please God, they please themselves and recieve their reward in the flesh by showing their submission to others, which does not please God.

1. But we cannot judge their ignorance or their rejection, Only God knows the hearts of these men.

In sentence #1, you judged their ignorance and/or rejection.

The natural man’s truth or thirst of it [Truth as in Jesus Christ], cannot be reached by themselves,…

TRUE.

so the greatest thing they can do in order to “show” their love for God, is to submit their flesh to their creator…

"The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”

…they reject His love who is God and God’s love is revealed from the works of His only begotten Son Jesus Christ

“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin, but now they have seen and hated both me and my Father.” John 15

Those without the Trinity, do not have ears to hear or eyes to see, what the Blessed Trinity reveals in the Spirit of Truth to our humanity…
Without the Blessed Trinity, or those who reject the Trinity, do not have ears or eyes to see what God reveals from the Trinity of persons.

Has God blinded them? If they don’t have the eyes or ears, how do they possess the eyes and ears? Has God given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day?

God reveals His presence to us, by His Voice (the Father), by His Word (the Son) and by His breath (the Holy Spirit) who is the lord the giver of life.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, 7 in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.” Romans 1

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

meltzerboy;11800938]Why do you think G-d would give us the Law if He knew we cannot fulfill it? Is it to frustrate and torment us or to ennoble and enlighten us? I think the latter.

I believe the answer can be found when God created the first adam in the creation covenant of the free will to love. The first adam made a choice not to love. The law of the cutting is no different. God gives us His Law which is LOVE that reveals His presence, so that man can enter His presence in His Love. But man makes God’s Law an ordinance for the flesh (outer) to follow. God sent the prophets to call man from the hardness of his heart to follow the Law from a heart of flesh not a heart of stone. That is why Moses allowed a bill of divorce.

From the broken creation covenant, that is why man returns to the dust. God does not lie nor can God be decieved.

IOW, G-d realizes none of us can fulfill the Law in its entirety, but striving to do the best we can helps to sanctify us and make us strong despite this. And when we err, we can always seek forgiveness from G-d and from our neighbor.

Yes, God knows man and his heart. That is why God sent His Word to become flesh for our sake and pay the penalty of the Law that demands a life. Bulls and goats did not fulfill the Law only atoned for sins, but never removes the sin.

But “a body you prepared for me” Jesus flesh is the eternal lamb of God sacrifice that fulfills every letter of the law, which man could never keep.

When man forgives from the flesh, does not remove forever the sin that begs to be forgiven, because the flesh of man alone can never forgive sin nor make amends to remove his sin from God’s Law.

When man forgives man from the flesh. Does not the civil laws require a penance of man to satisfy the justice of the law of the flesh? When man forgives his neighbor from the flesh, is it revealed truly by Love? Does the man truly forget the sin or payment due him from his neighbor when the man forgives his neighbor’s debt? Or did the man truly forgive his neighbor and love him?

Further, Judaism does not view “death of the flesh” as a means to fulfill the Law. Quite the contrary.

In the way you interpret “death of the flesh” is never Christian either. Our death never fulfills the law. Our death only removes us from the law of the living. It is when Abraham say’s “God himself will provide His sacrifice” that fulfills both the Law and the prophets. Man’s death only returns to the dust. The body God prepares for His Word is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the World. Man’s flesh or death only returns to dust.

The way in which we are able to praise G-d and perform the good deeds He commands of us here on earth is to unite body and soul, not divorce one from the other.

According to Catholic Teaching the body and the soul are one. God calls us to Love with all of our being which is one, which the works give witness and testimony of our faith from Love of God and Love of neighbor.

What gives you the idea that the body and soul divorce’s one from the other, that is never Christian teaching or belief. Please do not confuse Catholicism with LDS or SDA’s.

After all, G-d created us as flesh infused with spirit; who are we to separate them?

We can’t separate them. Where do you get this nonsense? We fear God because only God can kill the flesh and the soul, you are confused, only man can kill the flesh, man has no power of himself to separate the body from the soul. This is Gabriel of 12 Iam a Roman Catholic of the Latin Rite. Your addressing theology from LDS or SDA’s.

You spoke of faith as dominant; but does not the Church also believe, based on Scripture, that faith without works is dead?

Amen, you got that right. We have not discussed Faith and works here. Only True Love of God and neighbor is revealed from the works acting in faith. When both faith and works are the two witnesses of our true love of God and neighbor, inorder to establish Truth.

One final note: following the Law is not considered to be an all-or-none proposition, but rather a step-by-step process of improvement in which we become more spiritual and grow closer to G-d in small increments. It is the fortitude and perseverance from us that G-d most appreciates.

Do not be decieved in thinking that the law has been abolished. That is never my interpretation. The Law remains to those of the flesh. The law still remains to those living according to the flesh and Christians who have fallen from Grace and mercy of God by their own free will to live by the flesh in mortal sin. Where ever there is sin, the Law is there to convict.

Praise be Jesus Christ, for the heavy price paid by His flesh for our sins there is Grace upon Grace and mercy is given never earned by the flesh of man. Because of Jesus death on the cross. The Jewish high priest prophetically declared “it is better for one man to die than the whole nation”. Jesus death fulfilled the Law, so that Grace upon Grace is given to those who believe, because where there is a death, the law no longer can convict.

That is why Christians are baptised into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. When God infuses His Holy Spirit according the prophets, this new life and makes us Christian with the spirit that gives us the power over the flesh to Love God, Love neighbor without the desires of the flesh that demands payment.

Peace be with you

 

[meltzerboy]

I believe the answer can be found when God created the first adam in the creation covenant of the free will to love. The first adam made a choice not to love. The law of the cutting is no different. God gives us His Law which is LOVE that reveals His presence, so that man can enter His presence in His Love. But man makes God’s Law an ordinance for the flesh (outer) to follow. God sent the prophets to call man from the hardness of his heart to follow the Law from a heart of flesh not a heart of stone. That is why Moses allowed a bill of divorce.

From the broken creation covenant, that is why man returns to the dust. God does not lie nor can God be decieved.

Yes, God knows man and his heart. That is why God sent His Word to become flesh for our sake and pay the penalty of the Law that demands a life. Bulls and goats did not fulfill the Law only atoned for sins, but never removes the sin.

But “a body you prepared for me” Jesus flesh is the eternal lamb of God sacrifice that fulfills every letter of the law, which man could never keep.

When man forgives from the flesh, does not remove forever the sin that begs to be forgiven, because the flesh of man alone can never forgive sin nor make amends to remove his sin from God’s Law.

When man forgives man from the flesh. Does not the civil laws require a penance of man to satisfy the justice of the law of the flesh? When man forgives his neighbor from the flesh, is it revealed truly by Love? Does the man truly forget the sin or payment due him from his neighbor when the man forgives his neighbor’s debt? Or did the man truly forgive his neighbor and love him?

In the way you interpret “death of the flesh” is never Christian either. Our death never fulfills the law. Our death only removes us from the law of the living. It is when Abraham say’s “God himself will provide His sacrifice” that fulfills both the Law and the prophets. Man’s death only returns to the dust. The body God prepares for His Word is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the World. Man’s flesh or death only returns to dust.

According to Catholic Teaching the body and the soul are one. God calls us to Love with all of our being which is one, which the works give witness and testimony of our faith from Love of God and Love of neighbor.

What gives you the idea that the body and soul divorce’s one from the other, that is never Christian teaching or belief. Please do not confuse Catholicism with LDS or SDA’s.

We can’t separate them. Where do you get this nonsense? We fear God because only God can kill the flesh and the soul, you are confused, only man can kill the flesh, man has no power of himself to separate the body from the soul. This is Gabriel of 12 Iam a Roman Catholic of the Latin Rite. Your addressing theology from LDS or SDA’s.

Amen, you got that right. We have not discussed Faith and works here. Only True Love of God and neighbor is revealed from the works acting in faith. When both faith and works are the two witnesses of our true love of God and neighbor, inorder to establish Truth.

Do not be decieved in thinking that the law has been abolished. That is never my interpretation. The Law remains to those of the flesh. The law still remains to those living according to the flesh and Christians who have fallen from Grace and mercy of God by their own free will to live by the flesh in mortal sin. Where ever there is sin, the Law is there to convict.

Praise be Jesus Christ, for the heavy price paid by His flesh for our sins there is Grace upon Grace and mercy is given never earned by the flesh of man. Because of Jesus death on the cross. The Jewish high priest prophetically declared “it is better for one man to die than the whole nation”. Jesus death fulfilled the Law, so that Grace upon Grace is given to those who believe, because where there is a death…

That is why Christians are baptised into the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. When God infuses His Holy Spirit according the prophets, this new life and makes us Christian with the spirit that gives us the power over the flesh to Love God, Love neighbor without the desires of the flesh that demands payment.

Thank you for this discussion even though we disagree from a theological perspective. I have one point to raise concerning something you mentioned about animal sacrifices, which I have explained several times in other threads. That is, the blood of animal sacrifice was NEVER intended to fulfill the Law or even atone for all sins. It was meant as an atonement for unintentional sins against G-d ONLY. Intentional sins would require atonement by means of prayer and acts of loving-kindness if committed directly against G-d and by making amends toward our neighbors if the sins have been directed against them. Further, the sacrifice of bulls and goats was regarded as null and void if not accompanied by sincere prayer and repentance. Finally, blood sacrifice was not necessarily required to atone for these unintentional sins. For people who lived in remote communities far removed from the Temple and for poorer people, grain sacrifice was an acceptable substitute. In either case, we must strive to sincerely repent in deed as well as mind, and truly accept repentance from others. But, as you indicate, we are not perfect and will no doubt fall short. As I stated earlier, however, it is our continuous, sustained efforts which G-d most appreciates. You also mention that human atonement can never fully erase sins against G-d. However, the Scripture clearly states that by means of such atonement, our sins will become as white as snow, revealing that they will be swept clean from the mind of G-d as if they had never occurred. Indeed repentance (“turning away”) from sins can serve to draw us closer to G-d than even the holiest people who have led exemplary lives and committed very few sins by comparison.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

meltzerboy;11805900Thank you for this discussion even though we disagree from a theological perspective.

Truly our theologies remain the same. They are percieved and practiced differently one in the natural one in the spirit. I have not disagreed with your theology, I only raised the question when you percieved my theology incorrectly.

I have one point to raise concerning something you mentioned about animal sacrifices, which I have explained several times in other threads. That is, the blood of animal sacrifice was NEVER intended to fulfill the Law or even atone for all sins. It was meant as an atonement for unintentional sins against G-d ONLY. Intentional sins would require atonement by means of prayer and acts of loving-kindness if committed directly against G-d and by making amends toward our neighbors if the sins have been directed against them.

Thank you for your specifics in regards for the atonement of sins in the Covenant of the law. I mentioned the general atonement of sin without any specifics as you have displayed here. Which there is much more in regards to the Levitical priestly laws. Never the less a mortal sin against God from the free will demanded a death by stoning, which has another set of laws and detailed ordinances which we have not discussed here.

Further, the sacrifice of bulls and goats was regarded as null and void if not accompanied by sincere prayer and repentance. Finally, blood sacrifice was not necessarily required to atone for these unintentional sins. For people who lived in remote communities far removed from the Temple and for poorer people, grain sacrifice was an acceptable substitute.

Now that the Temple has been destroyed since 70 a.d. Is the grain sacrifice still offered for all Jews as a substitute today?

In either case, we must strive to sincerely repent in deed as well as mind, and truly accept repentance from others. But, as you indicate, we are not perfect and will no doubt fall short. As I stated earlier, however, it is our continuous, sustained efforts which G-d most appreciates.

This I know, I can never adhere to disciplines of the flesh by myself that will allow me to forgive, let alone to love my neighbor and God. It takes an act of God for my sake, that gives me the grace, hope and love to love God of my own free will. To love my enemy, I could never achieve by myself, only by God, It is possible for me to forgive and love my enemy.

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

=ephesians2;11802495]
In sentence #1, you judged their ignorance and/or rejection.

No, you misunderstand, I am summarizing the Muslim practiced faith of submission from their tenants of faith, my insertion of such submission that “does not please God”, is biblical not my opinion. I don’t find the need to quote the Sura’s from the Quran nor the scriptures which supports the points I have presented to you in generalities.

The mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, indeed it cannot; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”

Moses pleased God and David is known as one “who sought after God’s own heart”, who practiced the Law according to the flesh. We know this because God had not given us His Spirit yet, until the incarnation, death and resurrection of His beloved Son.

Has God blinded them? If they don’t have the eyes or ears, how do they possess the eyes and ears? Has God given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day?

Jesus quotes; “Those who do not see are given eyes to see, to those who claim “we see” remain blind”. God does not blind them, man’s new ideology of freedom and free will to believe what man reveals to man keeps them from the faith, hope which supersedes the flesh and understanding that is revealed from the flesh.

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, 7 in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.”/QUOTE

Anyone who knows the Truth and then rejects the Truth your scripture quote applies to here.I don’t see how your scripture quote above mirrors those who are ignorant of Christ by no fault of their own?

Peace be with you

 

[PJM]

=Servant19;11775478]G’day dear friends

In John 14, it is written that Jesus said “If you love me, keep my commandments…”

What are Jesus’ commandments?

.

Thet BRGINS with the Commandments WHICH BTW ae ten CATAGORIES of sins; not thee 10 possible sins. [caps for emphasis, not shoutinh]

But then "the key’s [ALL of them] are handed off to Peter and the Catholic Church; so one MUST know, accept and Live all that the Church ordains as necessary for oue salvation.

Mt. 16: 18-19 "And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven."

Mk. 16:14-15 "At length he appeared to the eleven as they were at table: and he upbraided them with their incredulity and hardness of heart, because they did not believe them who had seen him after he was risen again. And he said to them: Go ye into the whole world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mt. 28: 26-20 "And the eleven disciples[APOSTLES] went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded & TAUGHT to] you:*** and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.***

John 17: 14-21"I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them, I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from evil.** Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth**. As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. [THIS MEANS EXACTLY WHAT IT SAY"S: WITH CHRIST OWN POWERS AND AUTHORITY] And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth. And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me; That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me

God Bless you, Amen
Patrick [PJM]

 

[ephesians2]

Hello Gabriel of 12. Thanks for responding. You cause me to think and dive into the word! Hope I do the same for you. Now if only I can dive into the directions on how to properly use the quote tags…

No, you misunderstand, I am summarizing the Muslim practiced faith of submission from their tenants of faith, my insertion of such submission that “does not please God”, is biblical not my opinion. I don’t find the need to quote the Sura’s from the Quran nor the scriptures which supports the points I have presented to you in generalities.

SO you do not think Romans 1: 18-23 is talking about **all **of mankind?

[/QUOTE]

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

ephesians2;11862378]Hello Gabriel of 12. Thanks for responding. You cause me to think and dive into the word! Hope I do the same for you.

Oh, yes

You are still making a judgment (def: the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions

 

[ephesians2]

Now here is a mind twister; Spiritually I can judge all things, because I have the mind of Christ. see 1Corinthians 2:15-16

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

ephesians2;11869103

I’m speaking specifically of passages such as 1 Samuel 16 (verse 13) or 2 Chronicles 24 (verse 20) or Ezekial 11 (verse 24) amongst others. Obviously, I believe like you that He worked throughout the Old Testament, that He aided in Creation, that He is the Lord and Giver of Life.

“He aided in Creation” is not a statement that is generally applied to the mystery of God creating. The “aided” has tendencies of falsely implying a division of the blessed Trinity. When God is One. When God spoke, When God the Word was sent, and God the Holy Spirit brought to perfection that creation and gives life revealed from the Father through the Son, when God is One without confusion or division. To say the Holy Spirit aided hints that He is divided from the Father and the Son when all Three persons are one in divinity.

Do you believe He regenerated those of chosen Old Testament Israel? (Before Pentecost)

No, the price for redemption had not been paid yet, for God to regenerate man in the Son of God. God does not infuse His eternal life into man until man’s sin is removed. Only atonement of sin in the Old Testament was performed, but it never removed the sin eternally. Baptism regenerates and removes all sin and any punishment due from sin.

Re-generation is a biblical term used in the New Testament to define what happens in the sacrament of baptism, when Oil and water is used. Baptism is a fulfillment of God’s Word that prophecies God infusing His Spirit which removes all of man’s sin in a single day and gives man a heart of flesh from a heart of stone etc.

Ezekiel 36: 25 I will sprinkle clean water over you to make you clean; from all your impurities and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
26
m I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.n
27
I will put my spirit within you so that you walk in my statutes, observe my ordinances, and keep them.

The Kings, Prophets, High priest’s etc… of Israel were “Anointed” with oil which symbolized the Holy Spirit as it does in the sacrament of baptism today. This anointing changed the character of the one being anointed into God’s service, which gave them utterance and revelation.

This anointing in the old testament does not regenerate or save them from their sins, as does baptism “which saves now”, 1Peter 3:21 “This prefigured baptism, which saves you now. It is not a removal of dirt from the body but an appeal to God* for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

Those who obeyed God’s commandments and laws although they failed at times all died. They did not receive salvation, redemption into eternal life yet, because God does not send His Holy Spirit to regenerate them into eternal life. A High price had to be paid first for the sin of man, in order for God the Father to send His Holy Spirit. Man has to die in baptism, washed and cleansed in the blood of the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, which removes sin, so that God can infuse His Spirit (regeneration) and raise the redeemed sons of man to be regenerated (adopted) as sons of God in the Son of God (Jesus Christ) of God.

When Christ suffered His passion, death for our sins, while His flesh laid in the tomb for enough time (3 days) Jesus went down to set the captives (all those pre-pentecost) free from death’s bondage including the good thief and raised His flesh into eternal life so that the many are saved “in him, with him and through him”.

I started out rejecting the idea that a person can be saved without belief in Jesus as Lord and Savior. I suppose we are on a major tangent here, but an interesting one!

That is a huge subject that deserve a case by case study. Ultimately God has the final Word.

Without Love as Paul states, we are nothing.

Peace be with you

 

[ephesians2]

Gabriel of 12

“He aided in Creation” is not a statement that is generally applied to the mystery of God creating. The “aided” has tendencies of falsely implying a division of the blessed Trinity.

Maybe I should have phrased that differently, not assuming all were aware of my view of the Trinity. What I meant by that was what I think you were stating I am in error of. I meant I believe the Three are One- He was there at Creation. He was not “part” of God that came later…after Pentecost.

Job 33:4 Elihu says, “The Spirit of God has made me and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

Psalm 104 says (vs. 29–30), “When thou takest away their breath, they die and return to their dust. When thou sendest forth thy Spirit, they are created; and thou renewest the face of the ground.”

No, the price for redemption had not been paid yet, for God to regenerate man in the Son of God.

So when the Holy Spirit is talked about in the Old Testament (for instance in the verses I gave you in the previous post), you do not believe He changed a person’s heart-took out the heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh?

“I will put my Spirit within you so that you walk in my statutes, observe my ordinances, and keep them.”

If the Spirit did not regenerate those in the OT, how were they able to keep His laws?

Re-generation is a biblical term used in the New Testament to define what happens in the sacrament of baptism, when Oil and water is used.

Jesus speaks to Nicodemus about being born again in John 3. When I read the passage it seems Jesus is putting Nicodemus in his place for not understanding the concept when He asks, “Are you a teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand this?” This says to me that the learned Jews should have known. What do you think of Christ’s words that unless you are born again (regenerated by the Holy Spirit) you will not enter the Kingdom of God?

The Kings, Prophets, High priest’s etc… of Israel were “Anointed” with oil which symbolized the Holy Spirit as it does in the sacrament of baptism today. This anointing changed the character of the one being anointed into God’s service, which gave them utterance and revelation.

I agree with you that the prophets, priests and kings were anointed with the Spirit and there are many passages that speak of this. There were others in the OT that were not anointed prophets, priests or kings that were spoken of as containing the Spirit of God. Some passages are: Ex. 31:1-5, Numbers 14:24 also 27:18, Nehemiah 9:20 amongst others.

When Christ suffered His passion, death for our sins, while His flesh laid in the tomb for enough time (3 days) Jesus went down to set the captives (all those pre-pentecost) free from death’s bondage including the good thief and raised His flesh into eternal life so that the many are saved “in him, with him and through him”.

Seems as though you are passionate about Jesus Christ.

Without Love as Paul states, we are nothing.

…And Love Rejoices in the Truth That is why I believe if one is on a deadly path that leads to destruction and life without the Truth, I want to be God’s instrument, showing the person through God’s Word, the Truth. The Way, the Truth and the Life. Not that God needs me. He can save Whom He wishes with or without me, but I’m called to carry out the Great Commission.

(Sorry, I know there are a lot of questions, but thoughts come to mind as I type)

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

ephesians2;11877468]

So when the Holy Spirit is talked about in the Old Testament (for instance in the verses I gave you in the previous post), you do not believe He changed a person’s heart-took out the heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh?

“I will put my Spirit within you so that you walk in my statutes, observe my ordinances, and keep them.”

The Law and the prophets reveal what is to come when the Messiah (Jesus) comes. God desired Israel to rent their hearts, all the while they were renting their outer garments. God could not give them a heart of flesh, that can Love God and Love Neighbor which sums up the Decalogue (law), while they served the Law (by adding laws to the law) from breaking the law instead of keeping the Law.

If the Spirit did not regenerate those in the OT, how were they able to keep His laws?

Old testament Israel didn’t keep the law. They added their own laws which prevented them from Keeping the law. These added ordinances to the Law became a burden to the poor, the Widows, Orphans and prevented the Gentiles from entering the covenant with God.

When the Widows and Orphans are very special in the eyes of God. Israel became a health and wealth message when they exercised the law from the outside (flesh) that burdened the sick and the poor.

Moses had to give them a bill of divorce due to their stony hearts.

Jesus speaks to Nicodemus about being born again in John 3. When I read the passage it seems Jesus is putting Nicodemus in his place for not understanding the concept when He asks, “Are you a teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand this?” This says to me that the learned Jews should have known.

Yes the learned Jew should have known, because the law and the prophets reveal God’s Love in the Law and through the prophets because the Spirit speaks through the prophets, who inspires them to write. But no one is keeping the Law out of Love for God and love for neighbor. Israel put a barb wire over the law to prevent one from breaking the law, so no man keeps the law.

Jesus uses the word “Anothen” which means to born again or to be born from above. Nicodemus which his name is fitting because it sums up all of Israel at the time, when Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus which his name means “People Crusher”. The people crusher a.k.a Nicodemus who is of the covenant of the flesh naturally uses the definition of the flesh of being born again from his mother’s womb.

Jesus tells the people crusher, that he cannot enter let alone see the Kingdom of God unless he is born from above, born of Spirit and water which means baptism = saves you now.

cont;

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

c

What do you think of Christ’s words that unless you are born again (regenerated by the Holy Spirit) you will not enter the Kingdom of God?

Jesus does not use the definition of being born again, that was the people crusher’s view of the flesh. Jesus raises the bar for Nicodemus which he should already know of His coming and the prophets who foretell of Him bringing the gift of the Holy Spirit. That the people crusher must be born from above “baptized”.

I agree with you that the prophets, priests and kings were anointed with the Spirit and there are many passages that speak of this. There were others in the OT that were not anointed prophets, priests or kings that were spoken of as containing the Spirit of God. Some passages are: Ex. 31:1-5, Numbers 14:24 also 27:18, Nehemiah 9:20 amongst others.

No doubt about it, God would gift Israel with talent, healing, wisdom, miracles revealed from His Spirit, which your scripture reference speak of. But God does not infuse their stony hearts yet with the Holy Spirit. God’s Word never returns void to Him. The Law and the Prophets have to be fulfilled in order for God to send us His Holy Spirit.

The Law requires a death in order to fulfill it. Jesus paid this handsome price for all humanity including those in the Old Testament in the grave. The prophets are fulfilled in Jesus Christ because Jesus reveals the Father and the Father reveals the Son who is Love. God who is Love fulfilled the prophets by becoming Incarnate “Emmanuel”. When Love gives all of Himself for our sins, so that we can become Son’s in the Son of God in the Spirit of God. We become Son’s of God by virtue of our baptism.

Seems as though you are passionate about Jesus Christ.

How can I not be? when He first Loved me.

.And Love Rejoices in the Truth That is why I believe if one is on a deadly path that leads to destruction and life without the Truth, I want to be God’s instrument, showing the person through God’s Word, the Truth. The Way, the Truth and the Life. Not that God needs me. He can save Whom He wishes with or without me, but I’m called to carry out the Great Commission.

The great commission is simple for the laity, Love God and love our neighbor as ourselves. The great commission for the Church and for those whom Christ gave the keys to the kingdom of God to forgive sin, retain sin, and bind and loose on earth while Jesus binds and loose in heaven is revealed here;

John 20:21

• [Jesus] said to them again,l “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
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• And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them,m “Receive the holy Spirit.
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• n Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”

Matthew 28:18

• g Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
  19
  h Go, therefore,* and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
  20
  i teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.* And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

I enjoy sharing with you ephesians 2. What do you believe it takes for one to enter and see the Kingdom of God?

Peace be with you

 

[ephesians2]

Jesus does not use the definition of being born again, that was the people crusher’s view of the flesh.

No doubt about it, God would gift Israel with talent, healing, wisdom, miracles revealed from His Spirit, which your scripture reference speak of.

The Law requires a death in order to fulfill it. Jesus paid this handsome price for all humanity including those in the Old Testament in the grave.

The great commission is simple for the laity, Love God and love our neighbor as ourselves. The great commission for the Church and for those whom Christ gave the keys to the kingdom of God to forgive sin, retain sin, and bind and loose on earth while Jesus binds and loose in heaven is revealed here;

I enjoy sharing with you ephesians 2. What do you believe it takes for one to enter and see the Kingdom of God?

Peace be with you

Hello Gabriel of 12. I thought instead of quoting you I’d just address a few of the topics we’ve been discussing and then end with a touch of what the OP was asking…we have seemed to stray from it a bit BUT I think we both believe all we’ve mentioned comes full circle.

The same Spirit who blessed those who were called out of pagan lands (Abraham, Rahab, Ruth, etc…) and the same Spirit who blessed OT Israel with their gifts is the same Spirit who blesses those chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, who are in Christ’s body, with their gifts today. (Various OT and NT passages we’ve already stated, Eph. 1) I think it is safe to say we both agree on that and that God and His plan of salvation never changes.

The same Spirit who enabled the Old Testament believers to hope in the promise of the Messiah is the same Spirit who enables New Testament believers and Christians today to hope in the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (Romans 8, the whole chapter) The OT believers were aware of the fact that they could not follow God’s law perfectly and longed for the Savior. The Psalms are evidence of that. So is the breathtaking book of Job. “For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last day He will stand upon the earth.” (Ch. 19, v. 25)

“For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.” OT believers in the promised Messiah fit this verse. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Rahab, Ruth, Job, Isaiah, etc…God foreknew them and had a plan for their salvation since before the world was created. The OT believers in the promised Messiah were led by the Spirit. They were led by the Spirit to believe. They were conformed to the image of His Son-the Lamb that was slain from the foundation of the world.

Jesus mentions to Nicodemus (“Victor over people”) FIVE times that he needs to be born again or as you mentioned, “anothen”- born from above. To be born again means just that- born from above. From above. I contributed nothing to my physical birth and I contribute nothing to the work of the Holy Spirit, my spiritual rebirth. I was dead. A dead person cannot bring themselves to life. The Spirit brought me to life, just as He did in the OT. To enter heaven one must be born again-born from above. Regenerated.

You asked me what I believe it takes for one to enter the Kingdom of God…Believe in the Lord Jesus (Savior) Christ (Anointed). Because I am born again by the Spirit, I believe. I have complete assurance that Jesus Christ saved me from all of my past and future sins, I believe Jesus Christ is Savior and Lord over my life; therefore I strive to live a life according to the Great Commission. As a member of His Church universal, I strive to love the Lord my God (Triune) and my neighbor. I fail often. I am weak. I know I have one who stands for me though. I have confidence in Him and it is not in my works that I boast, but it is in His finished work that I boast. I believe every beautiful, important word He uttered. He is the Way, Truth, Life, Gate, Door, Bread, Good Shepherd, Light, True Vine. I believe He is the only road that leads to eternal life and without Him there is a promise of eternal punishment away from Him. Jesus says in Matthew 7, “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few." Most of Christ’s ministry on this earth was dedicated to warning people about Hell. He was the Gate leading to Heaven. God’s plan of salvation is perfect. I love my Heavenly Father. He takes care of me and disciplines me because He loves me as I love my children and do the same. I love my Savior, Jesus Christ. He is my Advocate and my Mediator. I love the Holy Spirit. He is my Helper and my Comforter. Without the Triune God, I would be nothing, but He chose to save me (not because of anything I did, but out of His grace) and now I live my life as one of His many instruments telling others about Him. I apologize this became longer than I anticipated.