If you partake Communion COT, why do you do this?

[ElToro]

Well, I am not sure what there is to ridicule in “the particle comment.” You’ll have to enlighten me.

Also, if you pay particular attention to the words used in my post…since the words do communicate the sense which I wished to convey…you’ll notice that I stated, “keeping people who would steal the Eucharist from doing so as easily.” Take offense if offense is given, and, as Our Lord commanded, judge just judgment. I’m not in any way saying, as you attest, that a person could not steal the Eucharist by receiving it in his mouth, merely that it is easier to do so when received in hand. I even happened to see a young man of 17 or 18 years old who received the Eucharist in his hand last Sunday never to put it in his mouth, but rather walk away with it, the priest none-the-wiser. And, no, he didn’t carry it in a pix.

– Nicole

Last Sunday at the TLM I saw someone kneel at the rail, receive Holy Communion, remove the host from his mouth and place it in a napkin. He just kept kneeling (no need to move) and after receiving communion 3 times and placing 3 hosts in the napkin he finally got up and left. The priest had no clue what was going on. I followed him outside and ensured that he consumed the hosts which he did in my presence. I sure hope you did the same thing rather than just watch what you described.

 

[yablabo]

Last Sunday at the TLM I saw someone kneel at the rail, receive Holy Communion, remove the host from his mouth and place it in a napkin. He just kept kneeling (no need to move) and after receiving communion 3 times and placing 3 hosts in the napkin he finally got up and left. The priest had no clue what was going on. I followed him outside and ensured that he consumed the hosts which he did in my presence. I sure hope you did the same thing rather than just watch what you described.

I did what was in my power, I informed the person in authority (i.e., the pastor) who assured me that things would be taken care of.

So…what was the “particle comment” which was deserving of ridicule?

– Nicole

 

[justtryin]

.

We’re Catholic Christians, not Jews. Consecrated hands do not confect the Eucharist. Jesus Christ does in the Person of a Catholic priest.

You make no sense. Are not the hands of a priest consecrated?

Chapter VII

EXTRAORDINARY FUNCTIONS
OF LAY FAITHFUL

[146.] There can be no substitute whatsoever for the ministerial Priesthood. For if a Priest is lacking in the community, then the community lacks the exercise and sacramental function of Christ the Head and Shepherd, which belongs to the essence of its very life.[247] For “the only minister who can confect the sacrament of the Eucharist in persona Christi is a validly ordained Priest”.[248]

Redemptionis Sacramentum
On certain matters to be observed or to be avoided regarding the Most Holy Eucharist

 

[ElToro]

You make no sense. Are not the hands of a priest consecrated?

Nope, they are not – not all of them. Byzantine Catholic Priests’ hands are not consecrated. The pastor of my Eastern parish is bi-ritual (he began in the East) and celebrates the EF and his hands have NEVER been consecrated. Next?

 

[At_Trent]

Has taught it, yes; more or less, that it is the role of the priest, who just happens to have consecrated hands…

Right, that’s what I said

And one part you left out was the one about the Communion Plate… it is to be used. Most places it’s not, which is an abuse of the permission for CITH.

Sorry, but you folks when defending CITH always do the ala carte thing when you dig out a document pertaining to an indult or permission to stray from the norm. Gotta learn to eat your vegetables

Administration of Holy Communion by Ordinary Ministers remains the norm.

 

[centurionguard]

Wrong!

You want an example? You give holy communion to someone in the hospital after they request it. They try to chew/swallow the host but they regurgitate it instead. After trying, it’s clear they can only consume a small fraction of the host, which they do. Handling it with the reverence do the Blessed Sacrament, the balance of that host may then be soaked it water until it is unidentifiable as the Blessed Sacrament. The water may then (and only then) be poured down the sacrarium or a flower bed/ground not stepped upon.

To infer communion patens have value because they catch sub-atomic “particles” is silly, not to mention wrong. It’s these sorts of fables that confuse people.

Listen good friend; are you in the habit when going into rebuttal of taking out of context the entire statement I made about the Totality (essence) of any one consecrated host?

Let me politely repeat again:

[Being a Catholic the Faithful are required to believe that Jesus is fully and substantially present in ever morsel, crumb, fiber and sub-atomic aspect of any one Sacred Consecrated Host.]

In other words you are to believe that Jesus exist in every physical aspect of a consecrated host.

You either believe this or you don’t

And yes even the microscopic crumbs that you and I cannot see.
Unless of course You think that Jesus humbled and miraculously present is insignificant right down to the last smallest particle of any consecrated host that you or I can’t see.

And we haven’t even begun to speak about the supernatural aspect of Jesus hidden inside a consecrated host.

 

[At_Trent]

Yes, there is good reason for holding those plates under the communicant’s chin. And the great care taken by the priest after Communion to find and consume any particles left.

Dominus est it is the Lord

 

[ElToro]

Listen good friend; are you in the habit when going into rebuttal of taking out of context the entire statement I made about the Totality (essence) of any one consecrated host?

Let me politely repeat again:

In other words you are to believe that Jesus exist in every physical aspect of a consecrated host.

And yes even the microscopic crumbs that you and I cannot see.
Unless of course You think that Jesus humbled and miraculously present is insignificant right down to the last smallest particle of any consecrated host that you or I can’t see.

And we haven’t even begun to speak about the supernatural aspect of Jesus hidden inside a consecrated host.

My apologies but the (not uncommon) attempts to justify communion patens with the “particles” argument just doesn’t pass the smell test. Much like the notion that CIH facilitates people stealing the Blessed Sacrament. I think communion patens are a very good idea. Their use is a strong practical underscoring of the Real Presence. But the “microscopic crumbs” argument? No.

 

[ElToro]

Yes, there is good reason for holding those plates under the communicant’s chin. And the great care taken by the priest after Communion to find and consume any particles left.

Dominus est it is the Lord

What “particles left?” Just what types of hosts are you using? The particles are falling out of peoples’ mouths onto the patens? Really?

 

[YoungTradCath]

What “particles left?” Just what types of hosts are you using? The particles are falling out of peoples’ mouths onto the patens? Really?

Some hosts, such as the ones used at a church that I frequent, are very crumbly. It is very possible that a piece breaks off in the process of transporting to the mouth. And it does, in fact, happen.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Nope, they are not – not all of them. Byzantine Catholic Priests’ hands are not consecrated. The pastor of my Eastern parish is bi-ritual (he began in the East) and celebrates the EF and his hands have NEVER been consecrated. Next?

By ordination he was ( therefore his hands were) consecrated.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I receive on the Tongue as it feels very awkward to receive in the hand. I have received in the hnad few times and it just does not feel right. I remember when I was 12 and coming back to the Church ( its a long story) I recveived private lessons with the parish priest. He was giveing me a tour of the church and while in the sacristy he tookd a large jar of the unconsecrateed host and said here tast it. I was is shock and did not know what to do, He laughed and said it has not been consecrated so it just bread at this point so just grabe one. this was in 1978 so CITH was already happening. I took it and ate it. He told me then that at the Eucharist it would not longer be Bread but the Body of Chirst and that I could stick out my tongue and receive or make a thrown with my hands to receive. and he diminstrated both to me. I have never felt comfortable receiveing in the Hand.

 

[At_Trent]

What “particles left?” Just what types of hosts are you using? The particles are falling out of peoples’ mouths onto the patens? Really?

you are in denial

 

[Ter1]

My apologies but the (not uncommon) attempts to justify communion patens with the “particles” argument just doesn’t pass the smell test. Much like the notion that CIH facilitates people stealing the Blessed Sacrament. I think communion patens are a very good idea. Their use is a strong practical underscoring of the Real Presence. But the “microscopic crumbs” argument? No.

The communion plate is recommended to guard against hosts or ‘particles’ (the word used in Church documents) falling to the ground. These particles are not invisible, sub-atomic particles, but are the very small, but clearly visible pieces that seem to crumble off from the edges of many hosts - finding such particles in the palm of their hands when receiving in the hand is the experience of many who have posted here. Also, I served Mass for a time and have seen such particles in the Ciborium & on the Paten - that is why the priest usually sort of ‘dusts’ it into the chalice with the purificator.

By the way, Catholics do not believe that invisible, sub-atomic particles are the body of Christ. The Church clearly teaches that the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ only so long as the ‘accidents’ of bread and wine continue to exist, hence the procedure for cleansing the chalice after Mass by washing in water and pouring the used water into the earth (i.e. the water dilutes any wine left so much that it is no longer wine, therefore no longer the Precious Blood). The same is done with the Purificators. Notice I’m talking about what happens after Mass not what the priest does during Mass.
In the same way, if a Host were ever left so long that it putrefied, it would no longer be the Body of Christ.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

The communion plate is recommended to guard against hosts or ‘particles’ (the word used in Church documents) falling to the ground. These particles are not invisible, sub-atomic particles, but are the very small, but clearly visible pieces that seem to crumble off from the edges of many hosts - finding such particles in the palm of their hands when receiving in the hand is the experience of many who have posted here. Also, I served Mass for a time and have seen such particles in the Ciborium & on the Paten - that is why the priest usually sort of ‘dusts’ it into the chalice with the purificator.

By the way, Catholics do not believe that invisible, sub-atomic particles are the body of Christ. The Church clearly teaches that the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ only so long as the ‘accidents’ of bread and wine continue to exist, hence the procedure for cleansing the chalice after Mass by washing in water and pouring the used water into the earth (i.e. the water dilutes any wine left so much that it is no longer wine, therefore no longer the Precious Blood). The same is done with the Purificators. Notice I’m talking about what happens after Mass not what the priest does during Mass.
In the same way, if a Host were ever left so long that it putrefied, it would no longer be the Body of Christ.

I know that My priest when cleaning the ciborium, patens, and Chalice put water in them swiles it around and pours it into one chalice then he drinks it. In doing so any particule of the body or blood are consumed.

 

[CopticChristian]

When discussing this recently with friends, my answer was “because I know where my hands have been!” I was really only half joking.

for many years i had a lack of reverence. I believed in the real presence of Jesus. But I also fell for the trend of overemphasizing the community meal aspect. In other areas of my life I also took theLord’spresence for granted and developed a huge amount of pride. That pride led me farther away from Him and led me more and more to feel like I could do life on my own. And I left the Church.

Upon my return I realized just how wrong I was. And that I need Him for everything. Receiving on the tongue is a vivid reminder for me that without Him I can do nothing. Not even feed myself.
–None of us is worthy, but I use to receive in the hand in an even more unworthy manner. In some ways,by my hands not touching the Blessed Sacrament it’s sort of a personal reparation. Kind of like- I abused the priviledge, now I’ve lost it, or have given it up freely.

Also, with all of the abuses, I wish everyone received on the tongue. It wouldn’t prevent all problems, but surely many many.

This is just a thought and not a criticism. What happened at the Last Supper in terms of what was done?

The mouth is filthy and by that I mean a human bite is one of the most devastating bites for infection. A human hand can scratch you and not cause an infection like a human bite. The mouth is teeming with bacteria. Dog bites are cleaner than human bites. I mention this in terms of the worthiness of our hands and mouth. Not a criticism just a thought.

The minister uses the hand to distribute the communion. We can reciprocate in COT COIH.

No responses necessary just some thoughts.

 

[centurionguard]

This is just a thought and not a criticism. What happened at the Last Supper in terms of what was done?

The mouth is filthy and by that I mean a human bite is one of the most devastating bites for infection. A human hand can scratch you and not cause an infection like a human bite. The mouth is teeming with bacteria. Dog bites are cleaner than human bites. I mention this in terms of the worthiness of our hands and mouth. Not a criticism just a thought.

The minister uses the hand to distribute the communion. We can reciprocate in COT COIH.

No responses necessary just some thoughts.

My only response to this is that the human soul if it has not confessed his/her sinfulness before a priest in sacramental confession, it can become are far more vile filthy place to tabernacle the Holy Presence of Jesus inside the human heart if such human soul has not prepared itself correctly in an absolved state to receive our Dear Lord and Savior.

Nobody is made Worthy to receive Jesus. It is Jesus who makes Himself available and comes inside a Repentant Sinner who humbly prepares themselves cleansed inwardly to receive Him.

 

[CopticChristian]

My only response to this is that the human soul if it has not confessed his/her sinfulness before a priest in sacramental confession, it can become are far more vile filthy place to tabernacle the Holy Presence of Jesus inside the human heart if such human soul has not prepared itself correctly in an absolved state to receive our Dear Lord and Savior.

Nobody is made Worthy to receive Jesus. It is Jesus who makes Himself available and comes inside a Repentant Sinner who humbly prepares themselves cleansed inwardly to receive Him.

That is a thought that abrogates the discussion and refreshes the reality of the Eucharist.

 

[archangel04]

Yes, I’m serious. Eastern Churches can do as they please. I have no issue with their traditions. If I have questions about them or want to discuss them I’ll see you on Eastern.

hago

Lol Trent you are awsome:thumbsup: I know “Latinization” is bad, but anyone else feel a “Easternication” on these boards? I think I am just making up words lol

 

[archangel04]

Wrong!

You want an example? You give holy communion to someone in the hospital after they request it. They try to chew/swallow the host but they regurgitate it instead. After trying, it’s clear they can only consume a small fraction of the host, which they do. Handling it with the reverence do the Blessed Sacrament, the balance of that host may then be soaked it water until it is unidentifiable as the Blessed Sacrament. The water may then (and only then) be poured down the sacrarium or a flower bed/ground not stepped upon.

To infer communion patens have value because they catch sub-atomic “particles” is silly, not to mention wrong. It’s these sorts of fables that confuse people.

I gotta say, some reasons given to receive COT are just silly. The particle comment is just ridiculous. Even worse though is the suggestion that receiving CIH somehow aids people who wish to steal the Eucharist. That’s actually offensive.

The second time I ever received Holy Communion I “made my mouth dry”, received on the tongue (the only way in those days) went back to the pew, removed the Blessed Sacrament from my tongue and began examining it closely (it was dry) UNTIL my father noticed…

Yet this is actually one of the reasons why the Pope only give COT. Twice someone took consecrated host from JPII and sold it on an auction.