If you pray for faith, God will give it to you...except when he doesn't

[spedteacherita]

My heart loves beauty and truth, and faith is beautiful.

When I look at my highest and best motivations, they are driven by a deep sense of wanting to serve what is good, right and true. That is in alignment with a spiritual interpretation of life.

When I look at my motivations when I am doubting the meaning and purpose of life, it is essentially coming from a place of fear and “grasping”.

My best self has faith and my lesser self whispers “you gotta look out for #1”, “get what you can while you can” and “everyone is selfish so it’s ok for me to me”.

Faith is the choosing of love over fear.

I like your eloquence when stating what inspires your faith but as a Ba’hai what is your faith in? I know that you embrace many ideas from other religions (correct me if I am wrong) but what do you have faith will happen when you die? My faith as a Lutheran Christian is that I know that my love for Christ, my belief that He died as a sacrifice for the word’s sin on the cross, was resurrected and taken back up to heaven. I know that He’ll be returning for us at a time when only God the Father knows and we will be part of the Kingdom of heaven for eternity.

Wherein does your faith lie?

Thanks, Matthew! and God bless!

Rita

 

[CompSciGuy]

Really great answers and food for thought!

If anyone would care to share about how/why you have faith, or recognized you have faith (as opposed to just beliefs) that would be awesome!

First I will explain why I believe. I am a convert to the Catholic faith. I grew up Protestant but was more of an agnostic before I converted. I have never been an atheist. I don’t believe that materialist atheism is sufficient to explain the human experience. I cannot believe that thinking, rational human beings could emerge from an unthinking, irrational universe. I also cannot believe that everything in this material universe is ultimately without purpose or meaning. If there were no purpose or meaning in the universe then I do not believe that we as humans would have any basis by which to discern purpose or meaning (which we do constantly, you are doing this right now as you read this post). Furthermore, things like love and beauty do not make sense without God. Materialism tries to strip these things down and make them into mere survival instincts, but anyone who experiences them and is honest with themselves knows that they are more than just survival instincts, and that there is something deeper to them.

That being said, the reason I have faith is because, knowing that there is a God, I myself want to know God. I desire communion with Him. I love God and am grateful to Him for everything that he has given me and everything that he has done for me. Also, after I received the sacrament of confirmation, I developed a very strong desire to grow in virtue and holiness. To me, being holy and virtuous means becoming like God himself who is the source of all virtue and holiness. Going to confession and receiving the Eucharist brings me consolation as I continue in the struggle against wickedness and toward righteousness.

I have chosen Catholicism because

1. Christianity is a revealed religion, and therefore worthy of my consideration in my search for the one true God,
2. I have read the scriptures concerning Jesus as the messiah and the fulfilment of the Old Testament prophecies and have believed them,
3. The life, death, and resurrection of Jesus has many witnesses, and many of these witnesses were martyred for sticking to their story. This to me carries more weight than the religions that were based upon the witness of a single man of disreputable character whose teachings clearly contradict previously revealed truth (I have two specific examples which I will exclude here).
4. The teachings of Jesus resonate most fully with my own conscience,
5. Catholicism is historically the most authentic form of Christianity that I could find, having come from Jesus Christ through the apostles and passed on by their successors.

 

[schaeffer]

Thinking back on what was shared earlier about the words of the Rabbi saying that some people confuse faith with beliefs…

And what some have shared about faith…

Is it possible to talk about faith without listing our beliefs? I mean, we have to have beliefs to have faith, otherwise what are we having faith in?

When we speak of how we came to faith, aren’t we talking about how we came to believe the things we do?

I have heard people say that they had faith (have faith) that things will work out…even though they dont know how, or have a particular belief system. Is that like the pagans having an altar to the unknown god and Paul telling them he knew who their unknown god was?

For those who say that they have faith because they can’t accept that there is no god and that things are just as they are without a personal god of some sort. Isn’t that a faith in your own sensibility as being reliable, your own intelligence as being reliable, as much as it is a faith in the supernatural?

I think that is why many say people create their own god, to answer the questions they have, to explain why things are as they are, and give hope that there is something more. They reason that if they feel that way, there must be a god that fills that role.

 

[Della]

I would also say that it is that same ability to recognize beauty that also enables us to recognize the Absolute Beauty of God in Christ, and give our heart to Him.

Yes, with some qualifications. Beauty alone cannot draw all men to Christ, neither can any particular natural virtue, but they do help. It is God’s grace that prompts us to “giver our heart to him.” Jesus told us that unless the Father draws us we cannot be Christ’s. That is a supernatural action not merely an inclination towards beauty or any other natural good.

 

[Della]

Thinking back on what was shared earlier about the words of the Rabbi saying that some people confuse faith with beliefs…

And what some have shared about faith…

Is it possible to talk about faith without listing our beliefs? I mean, we have to have beliefs to have faith, otherwise what are we having faith in?

When we speak of how we came to faith, aren’t we talking about how we came to believe the things we do?

I have heard people say that they had faith (have faith) that things will work out…even though they dont know how, or have a particular belief system. Is that like the pagans having an altar to the unknown god and Paul telling them he knew who their unknown god was?

For those who say that they have faith because they can’t accept that there is no god and that things are just as they are without a personal god of some sort. Isn’t that a faith in your own sensibility as being reliable, your own intelligence as being reliable, as much as it is a faith in the supernatural?

I think that is why many say people create their own god, to answer the questions they have, to explain why things are as they are, and give hope that there is something more. They reason that if they feel that way, there must be a god that fills that role.

Yes, but it requires a step on our part beyond wishful thinking/optimism. We need to acknowledge our need of God, our sinful state, and that we cannot please God without faith–faith that is given as a grace of God–a supernatural action, not merely a longing for “something/someone beyond.” Not that that doesn’t help, it does, but it’s not enough to call it faith.

 

[Matthew_Light]

Yes, but it requires a step on our part beyond wishful thinking/optimism. We need to acknowledge our need of God, our sinful state, and that we cannot please God without faith–faith that is given as a grace of God–a supernatural action, not merely a longing for “something/someone beyond.” Not that that doesn’t help, it does, but it’s not enough to call it faith.

I like what you are saying here . Agree very much, it is a choice to give ourselves to faith, but one we could not come to without the grace of God helping us to come to that point in the first place.

 

[CompSciGuy]

For those who say that they have faith because they can’t accept that there is no god and that things are just as they are without a personal god of some sort. Isn’t that a faith in your own sensibility as being reliable, your own intelligence as being reliable, as much as it is a faith in the supernatural?

I think that is why many say people create their own god, to answer the questions they have, to explain why things are as they are, and give hope that there is something more. They reason that if they feel that way, there must be a god that fills that role.

I’d say that is jumping to conclusions. It has to do with more than feelings. I speak of the human experience from an experiential nature. For example, I know that I have freedom of the will, because I know for sure that I am capable of choosing to do whatever I want to do (provided that it is within the realm of possibility). Materialists would argue that we don’t hvae free will but that our actions are predetermined. Their assessment is the most convenient one for a materialist worldview so they pick that one. The same for most other aspects of the human experience. The thing is, I know that their assessments are wrong from experience, not just from feeling. Sure, I have been conditioned to make a particular decision, but conditioning does not equal an absolute determinism. I know from experience. Experience trumps speculation.

Like I said before, I cannot believe that intelligent life would emerge from an unintelligent, unthinking universe, or that meaning/purpose do not actually exist. I have to believe this because I myself am capable of discerning purpose and meaning, for example, I can understand the purpose of the human digestive system: it is more than a mass of tissue that happens to convert organic matter into energy, its sole purpose is to do this. If it stopped doing this, then it would cause you pain, and would eventually die. It has a real purpose, not just one that we project onto it. We can discern it because it is real. If it were not real, then there would be absolutely no basis whatsoever for our ability to discern it. We would be just as unthinking and unfeeling as a rock floating in space.

Thus I have to believe that intelligence/purpose/meaning preexisted before humans existed. As to why I believe that God is the source of this, that is another story I can get to later.

 

[schaeffer]

I’m just thinking out loud here, of things that have come to mind while reading this discussion

Feelings are not the same as experience. But our feelings, when examined, can inform us about our relationship to our experiences and the outer world.

We can believe things as the result of experience, or we can believe things because our mind demands it of us as a platform for being able to function.

People believe things sometimes because of experience, and sometimes in spite of experience.

I have often heard people say “I have to believe there is a meaning to this or I’d simply crumble” or “I believe that deep down, in spite of the hateful words and regular beatings, my mom really loves me.” They believe because believing makes things better for them, gives them purpose, or strength or keeps them from facing something that would crush their spirit.

Whether or not we understand the function of our digestive system we will eat because of instinct. I think most people will seek God, answers, meaning whether or not they understand it, because of instinct.

But due to differences in personality, upbringing, life experiences and feelings, they will find themselves with very different things that they MUST have faith in, in order to mentally meet the challenges of life.

Our minds seek a constant reference point by which we order things and put things into perspective.

Some people pray to a deity for things/experiences. Some people pray to a deity for greater faith in that deity, some people pray that there IS no deity, and some people pray not at all.

 

[Riser]

The prayer that comes to mind here is

Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!”

(English Standard Version)

I cannot separate my faith from my belief. They must go together or I would be an unthinking Christian - unable to tell people:

1 Pe 3:

But even if you should suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

(English Standard Version)

God does give us faith, but we must allow it to happen. We must be the good soil so that He can water it and have it take root. Praying for God to increase our faith WILL happen when we fully submit to Him. We cannot hold on to the world AND ask God to increase our faith. We have to let go.

The unanswered prayer may be an indicator that we have not done our part.