If YOUR Church is the True Church, then.....

[justinthemartyr]

Please show me your church’s writings concerning the scriptures in the first 1520 years of Christianity, every century please. Show me their sermons, their doctrines concerning scripture, their opposition to heresies, their theologians names and their bishops names. Please show me the writings of the pagans and the pagans opposition to this church of yours that is not Catholic. Please show me the councils your church had in these centuries and the documented discussions in these councils. Please show me the martyrs of your church in these centuries who died for their faith without counting the cost. show me their burial plots in the catacombs please. Show me the history of your church all the way back to Jesus.

finally, please show me where your church decidd which books belonged in scripture and were inspired and which were not inspired and were not allowed in the canon of scripture please.

 

[bengal_fan]

very few protestants would claim that their church is the true church. they would say they are part of THE church, not that they are THE ( as in one and only true) church.

 

[paarsurrey]

finally, please show me where your church decided which books belonged in scripture and were inspired and which were not inspired and were not allowed in the canon of scripture please.

Hi

I think it was done whimsically, without any authority from GodAllahYHWH.

I respect your religion.

Thanks

 

[Tietjen]

Please show me your church’s writings concerning the scriptures in the first 1520 years of Christianity, every century please. Show me their sermons, their doctrines concerning scripture, their opposition to heresies, their theologians names and their bishops names. Please show me the writings of the pagans and the pagans opposition to this church of yours that is not Catholic. Please show me the councils your church had in these centuries and the documented discussions in these councils. Please show me the martyrs of your church in these centuries who died for their faith without counting the cost. show me their burial plots in the catacombs please. Show me the history of your church all the way back to Jesus.

finally, please show me where your church decidd which books belonged in scripture and were inspired and which were not inspired and were not allowed in the canon of scripture please.

Justin…
Were you upset about something when you wrote this or do you always come out swinging? I mean no disrespect but I was taken aback by your post - AND I’M CATHOLIC! Generally, our Protestant brothers and sisters don’t appreciate being smacked around before one even introduces themselves. LOL God bless and take care.

 

[justinthemartyr]

I am in no way upset. I think that a taste of historic reality is in order when things get all mushy in the area of Biblical interpretation, that’s all.

I am an ex-agnostic, ex protestant, ex non-denominational church goer who came home to the Catholic church after three years of deep study of Church history. The history of the church swept all of the doctrinal disagreement to the side for me and paved the way to solid ground.

I mean no disrespect at all, I am just asking for historical proof of another visible and authoritative church and their writings about the scriptures in the first 15 centuries.

Is this too much to ask?

 

[ncgolf]

I am in no way upset. I think that a taste of historic reality is in order when things get all mushy in the area of Biblical interpretation, that’s all.

I am an ex-agnostic, ex protestant, ex non-denominational church goer who came home to the Catholic church after three years of deep study of Church history. The history of the church swept all of the doctrinal disagreement to the side for me and paved the way to solid ground.

I mean no disrespect at all, I am just asking for historical proof of another visible and authoritative church and their writings about the scriptures in the first 15 centuries.

Is this too much to ask?

I see where Tietjen has a point. Your history as an ex-agnostic, ex protestant …excetera points to the fact that you were on a journey. It took you years to get where you are today and I think she is pointing to the fact that the people your post addresses are too are on a journey. I am sure when you were in a different place in your past if you raised the question you raised in your OP all you will get is an argument. Nobody wins by winning the argument.

 

[justinthemartyr]

True.

My conversion to the Catholic Church began when I was humbly asked not to partake of the communion at the Catholic church. I could not understand why? And when I was told, I was shocked, and angry. I thought, is this for real, can this be? And thus began my journey.

I apologise for any hard feeling that my post may have caused.

 

[gdavis]

As a Protestant I think your statement would be impossible to answer because until the time of Luther, Calvin, etc., our history was the same. It would be like asking that since Book of Acts was a Roman Catholic Book, what do Protestant’s use? The answer is obviously the same Book. While there are some Books of the Bible that are disputed by Protestants as being Divinely inspired, we agree on the majority. Again, for the majority of church history, our history is the same so it is impossible to trace a different history to the time of the Apostles. It doesn’t exist.

I have great respect for what the Church as historically believed, but for me the ultimate question is: Is it Biblical? For example [and you may disagree], there is a popular “end times” teaching which has only been around for about 100 years. The fact that no one in almost 2,000 years of church history has taught it, makes it highly suspect but that in itself does not prove it wrong. The question is: Is it Biblical or not?

For what its worth…

 

[mozart-250]

Who says that any denomination is the “One True Church” in its entirety.

But if hypothetically a denomination were in fact the “One True Church” I would expect that a clearly superior type of Christianity to be practiced in this denomination over all the rest of them.

 

[KarenNC]

Let’s reframe this a bit and see how it sounds:

Please show me your religion’s writings concerning the scriptures in the first 3761 years of worshipping God, every century please. Show me their sermons, their doctrines concerning scripture, their opposition to heresies, their theologians names and their leaders names. Please show me the writings of the pagans and the pagans opposition to this religion of yours that is not Jewish. Please show me the councils your religion had in these centuries and the documented discussions in these councils. Please show me the martyrs of your religion in these centuries who died for their faith without counting the cost. show me their burial plots in the desert, in Babylon, in Egypt, please. Show me the history of your religion all the way back to Adam.

 

[Metaron]

Who says that any denomination is the “One True Church” in its entirety?

The Catholic Church in the One True Church in it’s entirity. Any validly baptized person is an implicit member of the Catholic Church (Whether they deny it or not, from our perspective). So, (from our perspective) the Catholic Church is the One True Church in it’s entirity.

But if hypothetically a denomination were in fact the “One True Church” I would expect that a clearly superior type of Christianity to be practiced in this denomination over all the rest of them.

Over the course of history, we’ve got saints, confessors, martyrs, holy men and women, we’ve defended truth, life in the womb, defied contraception, even though it isn’t “politically correct” nowadays, yet, I do not know of any Protestant group which still faithfully shuns contraception. It was universally condemned by Protestants, Anglicans, and Catholics alike, up until the 1930’s, when Anglicanism & Protestantism caved into the liberal’s demands. Then we got the sexual revolution… and the rest is history.

 

[ScottishColleen]

Though the Catholic Church takes a stand on birth control, nearly all Catholics I know use it.

I DO know Protestant groups that shun birth control…and even groups that don’t take a stand, but many (more and more) take a personal stand against it.

 

[Metaron]

Though the Catholic Church takes a stand on birth control, nearly all Catholics I know use it.

How do you know? Have they told you? They could be using NFP for all you know. However, I do admit that most U.S. Catholics, it seems, are in rebellion against the Church on this issue. It is not true, however, that most the Catholics in the world are.

I DO know Protestant groups that shun birth control…and even groups that don’t take a stand, but many (more and more) take a personal stand against it.

That’s encouraging. But how do you know this? And what are the names of the groups that are against it?

 

[mozart-250]

The Catholic Church in the One True Church in it’s entirity. Any validly baptized person is an implicit member of the Catholic Church (Whether they deny it or not, from our perspective). So, (from our perspective) the Catholic Church is the One True Church in it’s entirity.

Yup…that’s what you say.

Over the course of history, we’ve got saints, confessors, martyrs, holy men and women, we’ve defended truth, life in the womb, defied contraception, even though it isn’t “politically correct” nowadays, yet, I do not know of any Protestant group which still faithfully shuns contraception. It was universally condemned by Protestants, Anglicans, and Catholics alike, up until the 1930’s, when Anglicanism & Protestantism caved into the liberal’s demands. Then we got the sexual revolution… and the rest is history.

Actually I was once a member in good standing of a church that did shun contraception, and (unlike the Catholic Church in the US) it was generally practiced.

Of course one metric does not superior lifestyle proove (I could mention other metrics but it would be quite inflammatory).

 

[SolaFide]

Please show me your church’s writings concerning the scriptures in the first 1520 years of Christianity, every century please. Show me their sermons, their doctrines concerning scripture, their opposition to heresies, their theologians names and their bishops names. Please show me the writings of the pagans and the pagans opposition to this church of yours that is not Catholic. Please show me the councils your church had in these centuries and the documented discussions in these councils. Please show me the martyrs of your church in these centuries who died for their faith without counting the cost. show me their burial plots in the catacombs please. Show me the history of your church all the way back to Jesus.

finally, please show me where your church decidd which books belonged in scripture and were inspired and which were not inspired and were not allowed in the canon of scripture please.

The writings of the true church are collectively called The New Testament.

 

[ScottishColleen]

How do you know? Have they told you? They could be using NFP for all you know. However, I do admit that most U.S. Catholics, it seems, are in rebellion against the Church on this issue. It is not true, however, that most the Catholics in the world are.

That’s encouraging. But how do you know this? And what are the names of the groups that are against it?

Because it is a major/common issue of discussion amoung women.

I live an anabaptist area and many of the groups here teach against birth control (admittedly some use it, a goodly amount of the conservatives do not…I’m friends with a midwife in the area also). You have probably heard of the Quiverful movement. This includes women of many faiths…and some churches have even taken up this movement. Amoung the very conservative Reformed there is a large consensus that strongly hold Calvin and Luther’s view of birth control up and that bearing children is desirable, avoidance of them is not just undesirable, but sinful. I also have had discussions with Catholic friends. Husbands that don’t want any more children, wives using IUDs, Birth Control Pills discussed and used (and was used by the Catholic woman I used to be a nanny for…yes, not only discussed, saw them in her bathroom).

 

[Pjs2ejs]

gdavis,

You said everything boils down to “Is it Biblical?” This is something that I don’t understand as a Catholic as a valid question. The “Is it Biblical” question is a man-made question. That question is not even “biblical”. It is not historic, nor Christian when you look at the first 1500 years of church history.

Your entire belief system is based on the Bible alone. Honestly, do you know when the “bible-alone” theory or belief system began? It was not in the church that you claim we were all a part of the first 1500 years. Not one document, scripture, father, anything, ever practiced this belief in Christian authority. It is nowhere in the bible. There was no bible for 300 years after Jesus was crucified.

If you do honestly (when I say this I really feel many protestants don’t honestly look at anything from the time the last scripture was written until 450 years ago) look at what the early Christian church practiced, how they interpreted the gospel, what their practices and customs were, you will find the Catholic church. Bible Alone? No. Bible/Tradition/Church? Yes.

The best way I have ever heard a non-Catholic Christian described by a Catholic is this: Catholicism is like a beautiful stained glass window, protestant religions are the same window but with many of the original pieces replaced by opaque ones. It’s the same window but not complete and not as beautiful.

If all of you Protestants knew what you were missing, you would run back to the Catholic Church. I always wondered why protestants in general have such a craving for scripture. It’s like they can’t get enough of it. They hunger for it. But scripture alone will always leave you hungry for more. If you actually believed like the early Christians that the Eucharist is TRULY the body and blood of Christ, you would never hunger again.

Peace and love,
Pete