If your wife uses you only for a green card, would that be grounds for annulment?

[SyroMalankara]

From what I understand, I may be wrong, that only some states allow this interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

It’s federal policy to issue the SSN, and no state has laws requiring nationality verification in the hospital. Individual states have no say in the matter.

 

[Bookcat]

No such claim can be made based on the OP’S question…this is why annulment take time and research by the Church.

Sure it can. I just did.

Just like one can say that if someone is married validly to another living person - and they get married now out of deception -that too would make for an invalid marriage. And yes one can claim such for such is speaking to the nature of marriage.

As I noted above - such would make for an invalid marriage.

I am not saying that the Church would not need to investigate such and degree such…I am talking about the reality would be (or rather not be) - that would be then discovered.

 

[GEddie]

The “anchor baby” scam is a misinterpretation and even abuse of the 14th Amendment that was supposed to give citizenship to slaves already living in the US for generations.
A good analogy of whether someone can claim citizenship if a diplomat’s wife has a child while living in the US. Of course not while they are foreign nationals and neither can tourists demand citizenship either.

Having a baby does not automatically give permanent status to mommy even though the child is a citizen.

Diplomats are exempted from the 14th amendment because under the rules of diplomacy, they are not **“subject to the laws” **of the USA (the flip side of diplomatic immunity).

Ships are the other exception; they are considered the “territory” of the country whose flag they fly. Someone born on a ship tied up in a US port is not born a citizen for that reason.

Everybody else (tourists, students, etc) is “subject to the laws there of” and so if they have a baby, that kid will be a citizen. Quite consistent.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Lily_Bernans]

This is a problem I’m weary of when dating international, especially online.

If that were to happen, would I pretty much be out of luck, or could I just get an annulment since that seems like a fraudulent action?

I guess everyone has just assumed that they were married in the church? If not, an annulment could be granted on those grounds - the form of the marriage was not valid according to the Church.

We do have a canon lawyer on this forum, but he’s not around much, unfortunately.

 

[pianistclare]

If someone marries you for what you can give them materially…that’s your problem.
The green card has little to do with it.
Cleary there was no intent to have a true marriage.

The “anchor baby” thing is something touted by people who are anti-immigrant.
We had a girl in our First Communion prep program whose parents came here legally and did all the right things from Honduras years ago when she was a baby in arms.
Apparently, no one in immigration bothered to see to it, or ask that she be given the same papers. Fast forward 12 years, and they deported HER ALONE. Without her parents, despite the fact that her parents were now legal, and all of her other siblings were legal.

She had to stay “out” and live with relatives for 2 years. Imagine my joy when she appeared in my office asking me if she could still make her First Holy Communion at 14.
She took her catechism book with her and read it every night while she was away.

Immigrants have it hard. There are no free rides.

OP: use the same logic and moral decision making when dating anyone…when dating someone from the neighborhood as you would online.
We wary, be truthful, be careful, protect yourself by not making any hasty decisions.
These things are prudent regardless of how you meet women.

Babies born on US soil are US citizens. That’s the law.
Want to change it?
Then change it.
But don’t punish children because their parents can’t navigate the system.

I’m out.
I’m so sick of the immigration debate.
I’m with Pope Francis on this one.

 

[twf]

It would sound like strong grounds for an annulment.

It would have taken considerable deceit on her part to endure guiling the individual into engagement, and to make it through the discernment and preparation phases offered by the church. However, simple due diligence is enough to repel such frauds.

Such an individual would push for a quick elopement at City Hall, and would bail if the Catholic party insisted on a church wedding (usually requiring 6 months or more advanced notice to make arrangements).

Would such a rushed wedding be sufficient to get a green card in the US? My wife is Dominican and Im canadian. We are about a year into the long and gruelling process of getting her Canadian permanent residency through spousal sponsorship. Not only is it expensive, but we had to provide (in our case 3+ years worth) photographs depicting our relationship from start to present…phone records…emails…chat records…an essay describing how we met and how our romance unfolded…testimonials from friends and family…etc etc etc etc. It is not easy in Canada. The first time we applied for her to simply visit, after having dated (I was living in the DR at the time) for over a year, her application was rejected.
I should note that she is an engineer who made a very good salary by local standards.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

If someone marries you for what you can give them materially…that’s your problem.
The green card has little to do with it.
Clearly there was no intent to have a true marriage.
The “anchor baby” thing is something touted by people who are anti-immigrant.
We had a girl in our First Communion prep program whose parents came here legally and did all the right things from Honduras years ago when she was a baby in arms.
Apparently, no one in immigration bothered to see to it, or ask that she be given the same papers. Fast forward 12 years, and they deported HER ALONE. Without her parents, despite the fact that her parents were now legal, and all of her other siblings were legal.
She had to stay “out” and live with relatives for 2 years. Imagine my joy when she appeared in my office asking me if she could still make her First Holy Communion at 14.
She took her catechism book with her and read it every night while she was away.
Immigrants have it hard. There are no free rides.
Babies born on US soil are US citizens. That’s the law.
Want to change it? Then change it.
But don’t punish children because their parents can’t navigate the system.
I’m out. I’m so sick of the immigration debate.
I’m with Pope Francis on this one.

I am happy the little girl whose parents were already naturalized was able to claim her rights and stay in the US. However, one example does not represent those who are purposely abusing the system. There are too many immigrant criminals over and above the percentage of their group with repeating offenses, overburdening taxpayers.
The 14th Amendment (1868) was mainly drawn up to define the rights of former slaves to citizenship: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
The limiting factor is “subject to the jurisdiction thereof”, meaning this is a complex issue dependent on conditions and other laws. Native Americans were not considered citizens until 1924, just to prove that in the intervening 50 years or so, just being born in the US was not sufficient enough to grant citizenship.
As for giving unlimited immigration access to Western Countries, this is turning out to be more than a liability, particularly those from the Middle East. Someone wrote if I give you 10,000 M&M’s and tell you that only 10 are poisoned, would you take the chance and eat any of them? There has to be a limit to altruism, when it adversely affects your own people and culture. This is not unkindness, nor a sin but merely commonsense.

 

[Horton]

I guess everyone has just assumed that they were married in the church? If not, an annulment could be granted on those grounds - the form of the marriage was not valid according to the Church.

We do have a canon lawyer on this forum, but he’s not around much, unfortunately.

Being married in the Church does not automatically make a marriage valid. If the marriage is contracted with deceit then the validity is questionable. In the OP’s scenario it would appear to be an invalid marriage but the only way it could be determined is if a tribunal investigated the marriage after a divorce.

OP - If you have concerns about this why not just avoid international dating?

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Being married in the Church does not automatically make a marriage valid. If the marriage is contracted with deceit then the validity is questionable. In the OP’s scenario it would appear to be an invalid marriage but the only way it could be determined is if a tribunal investigated the marriage after a divorce.

OP - If you have concerns about this why not just avoid international dating?

Yes, you are right. However, the poster is asking about annulment.

Deceit could be difficult-to-impossible for the spouse to prove, but if they were not married in the Church the annulment could be granted on the basis of form, or so said our canon lawyer member on another thread. I, myself, don’t know that much about annulment. I took one class in Canon Law, and most of it did not focus on annulment. One doesn’t learn a whole lot in only one class, but it was required.

I agree with your question. People who are concerned about someone marrying just for a green card should avoid international dating. The answer is as simple and easy as you’ve stated.

 

[GEddie]

**That only happens in the movies. **
My husband is an immigrant from Ireland to the U.S.
Being married to me made NO DIFFERENCE in the immigration green card/permanent residency process.
It’s about MONEY.
You need MONEY to get a green card.
That’s why so many don’t have one.
Being married to an American doesn’t help your cause at all. A person can apply for residency via a fiancé, yes, but the bottom line is that ***it is not a guarantee of anything. ***
Until that person comes up with a wealthy sponsor or cash, …there’s little that being married has to do with it.

It worked in the past.

Methinks the OP saw that old episode of “Love Boat.”

It was because the law was being so flagrantly abused that it was changed.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Lily_Bernans]

It worked in the past.

Methinks the OP saw that old episode of “Love Boat.”

It was because the law was being so flagrantly abused that it was changed.

ICXC NIKA

Do you mean people used to be able to buy, i.e. bribe, a green card?

 

[GEddie]

Do you mean people used to be able to buy, i.e. bribe, a green card?

No, meaning that in the late 1900s there were instances of people marrying somebody to get their visa.

Laws get tightened for a reason.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Lily_Bernans]

No, meaning that in the late 1900s there were instances of people marrying somebody to get their visa.

Laws get tightened for a reason.

ICXC NIKA

Oh, I know several people who did marry someone for a green card. In the 21st century. They didn’t even live together, and the spouse still got a green card. I know one woman who married a gay man. As soon as the ceremony was over, they went their separate ways till it was time for the interview. They were friends, of course, but they never intended to remain married. It’s still going on.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Edit: In the above post, the people I was referring to were people who overstayed their welcome in the US, they were not people applying from a foreign country. I realize that would be much harder.

 

[HelenRose]

An intention against the permanence of marriage is grounds for annulment. So, if someone married a person, intending only to stay married a short while, then yeah, it would be an invalid marriage, if it could be proven to be true in a nullity proceeding.

A serious question, though: if you had a real doubt in your mind that someone was marrying you with honest intent… why would you go ahead and marry them?

It can happen. One of my nieces fell for a guy who really seemed to love her but he was just using her for an easy pass. There are some real losers out there.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

It can happen. One of my nieces fell for a guy who really seemed to love her but he was just using her for an easy pass. There are some real losers out there.

Or rather, winners… To hear this happening really disturbs me as it reinforces my suspicions about a certain couple…

 

[HelenRose]

Or rather, winners… To hear this happening really disturbs me as it reinforces my suspicions about a certain couple…

But then again one of my sons is married to a lovely German girl and the other is married to a lovely Mongolian girl and I could not be happier.

 

[Darryl_Revok]

This is a problem I’m weary of when dating international, especially online.

If that were to happen, would I pretty much be out of luck, or could I just get an annulment since that seems like a fraudulent action?

Come on, you have to know what you’re getting into when you engage in international dating. Say you sign up to meet some beautiful Russian woman. If she wanted a guy with handsome looks and sparkling personality, then there’s nothing preventing her from finding some handsome/witty Russian guy out there. The only reason she’s going to hook up with some несчастли́вый я́нки is for the possibility of American citizenship. Thinking otherwise is kind of naive.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Come on, you have to know what you’re getting into when you engage in international dating. Say you sign up to meet some beautiful Russian woman. If she wanted a guy with handsome looks and sparkling personality, then there’s nothing preventing her from finding some handsome/witty Russian guy out there. The only reason she’s going to hook up with some несчастли́вый я́нки is for the possibility of American citizenship. Thinking otherwise is kind of naive.

As a French-American who’s lived in Holland, France, and Switzerland, I saw plenty of men and women both who wanted to marry an American, or a Swiss, just so they could get citizenship. Switzerland is filled with Swiss in unhappy marriages to Russian women. Unhappy because the wife does not really love them.

I agree with what you say.

 

[e_c]

It’s a classic item for grounds for annulment, although it would need to be relegated to a more basic deficiency of intent, such as lack of due discretion. It would be an easy case. Call your tribunal.