If You're Judged Immediately upon Death, How are Some Revived?

[DiscipulusLucis]

I heard someone say that upon death, the soul is immediately judged by God and sent to heaven or hell. Is this true? If so, could you please provide scriptural evidence? If not, I guess the rest of my question isn’t applicable.

If you are judged immediately upon death, then how is it someone can have a heart transplant, wherein for a period of time he has no heart and is technically dead, before coming back to life?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I heard someone say that upon death, the soul is immediately judged by God and sent to heaven or hell. Is this true? If so, could you please provide scriptural evidence? If not, I guess the rest of my question isn’t applicable.

If you are judged immediately upon death, then how is it someone can have a heart transplant, wherein for a period of time he has no heart and is technically dead, before coming back to life?

Because clinical death is not true death.
Ever see “The Princess Bride?” You can’t be ‘restored’ unless you are only ‘mostly’ dead but there is still a little bit of life.

Also, one can live without a heart (briefly) if the FUNCTIONS of the heart are kept going AND the body temperature is cooled so that the functions are minimal. Same as a person who falls into a cold lake and is ‘under’ for even up to half an hour can still be revived with minimal if any brain damage, because the body temperature is so cool that even the barest function is sufficient. If you ever get to see a heart transplant you’ll see how the surgeons cool the body in order to be able to remove and then transplant the new heart.

 

[Church_Militant]

How is this a philosophy question?
Choosing Your Forum Wisely

 

[DiscipulusLucis]

Well if clinical death is not true death, what is? If it’s total deterioration of conscious brain function, what about the vegetable? If it’s the point at which a person can no longer be fully restored, what will happen as technology advances?

If the claim is made that immediately upon death the soul is judged, then the claimer must be able to specify the criteria.

And that’s why it’s a philosophical question.

 

[MtGargano]

Well if clinical death is not true death, what is? If it’s total deterioration of conscious brain function, what about the vegetable? If it’s the point at which a person can no longer be fully restored, what will happen as technology advances?

If the claim is made that immediately upon death the soul is judged, then the claimer must be able to specify the criteria.

And that’s why it’s a philosophical question.

i suppose youre truely dead when God says youre truely dead…then youre judged…

From the Catholic Catechism…

1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification592 or immediately,593-or immediate and everlasting damnation594

At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love…St. John of the Cross…Dichos 64

God Bless

 

[puzzleannie]

I If you are judged immediately upon death, then how is it someone can have a heart transplant, wherein for a period of time he has no heart and is technically dead, before coming back to life?

because that is not true death, which is something God decides, not medical science

 

[DiscipulusLucis]

That kind of seems like a cop out, though. And what’s the point of saying that you are judged immediately upon death, if death could happen any time, depending on when God wants it to happen. That’s like saying I’ll give you a puppy when you’re old enough, but you’re not old enough until I want to give you a puppy. Just say I’ll give you a puppy when I want to.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Well if clinical death is not true death, what is?

Brain death. The complete atrophy of the brain, not just of cortical regions responsible for consciousness or cognition.

If it’s total deterioration of conscious brain function, what about the vegetable?

Those in a vegetative state while not conscious typically still have parts of a functioning brain (parts which keep the rest of the body alive), such as the pons, limbic system, medulla, cerebellum, etc. Brain death is the complete cessation of brain function due to oxygen deprivation.

If it’s the point at which a person can no longer be fully restored,what will happen as technology advances?

The prognosis of those with severe brain injuries will get better. Other than that, future technology does nothing for people who suffer brain death today

If the claim is made that immediately upon death the soul is judged, then the claimer must be able to specify the criteria.

Though I’ve already given you the generally accepted criterion of actual death, I don’t agree that those who believe judgment is imminent after death have to know when death occurs. It’s enough to know that everyone in fact dies.

And that’s why it’s a philosophical question.

I think the concern over thread location is due to your original post seemingly addressing two different questions: (1) when does death occur (a philosophical question) and (2) when does the particular judgment occur (a theological one).

 

[Ben_F]

Will those, who are judged to merit hell be resurrected later? God bless:thumbsup:

 

[DiscipulusLucis]

Thank you for breaking down my questions systematically and responding, I find it very helpful.

I agree and think that the death you describe is exactly what total death is, but do you think that’s what was meant by the Catholic Catechism?

 

[Faithdancer]

because that is not true death, which is something God decides, not medical science

 

[SwizzleStick]

I heard someone say that upon death, the soul is immediately judged by God and sent to heaven or hell. Is this true? If so, could you please provide scriptural evidence? If not, I guess the rest of my question isn’t applicable.

If you are judged immediately upon death, then how is it someone can have a heart transplant, wherein for a period of time he has no heart and is technically dead, before coming back to life?

If one is dead, one can’t be revived. If one is revived, then one was not dead. Clear?

 

[Mumbles140]

If you believe in judgment, you believe in God, and because of the nature of God, you believe Him to be omnipotent. God knows when you will die, as He knows all things. Your soul doesn’t depart from your body the moment you are ‘clinically dead’ (which means no heart beat), which can be a very brief thing (if someone has a defibrillator handy), or permanent.

I think true ‘death’ comes when our souls separate from our bodies. At that moment, where I soul is free of its physical bounds, we become judged. That is why it isn’t too late to baptize/absolve someone recently deceased (by this I mean like dead on the field of battle, not a couple of days after burial) - their ‘clinical death’ may not be final. God knows if someone will come revive them. At the ‘point of no return’, God calls our soul to face its judgment.

 

[MtGargano]

That kind of seems like a cop out, though. And what’s the point of saying that you are judged immediately upon death, if death could happen any time, depending on when God wants it to happen. That’s like saying I’ll give you a puppy when you’re old enough, but you’re not old enough until I want to give you a puppy. Just say I’ll give you a puppy when I want to.

The “point of saying that you are judged immediately upon death, if death could happen any time, depending on when God wants it to happen” is…to live our lives in Gods grace, free from mortal sin, in case today is that day…

As God’s will is responsible for our first breath and our last, He owes us nothing…there is no tease whatsoever, and the Church teaches us to be ready to be called home at anytime.

God Bless

 

[DiscipulusLucis]

If you believe in judgment, you believe in God, and because of the nature of God, you believe Him to be omnipotent. God knows when you will die, as He knows all things. Your soul doesn’t depart from your body the moment you are ‘clinically dead’ (which means no heart beat), which can be a very brief thing (if someone has a defibrillator handy), or permanent.

I think true ‘death’ comes when our souls separate from our bodies. At that moment, where I soul is free of its physical bounds, we become judged. That is why it isn’t too late to baptize/absolve someone recently deceased (by this I mean like dead on the field of battle, not a couple of days after burial) - their ‘clinical death’ may not be final. God knows if someone will come revive them. At the ‘point of no return’, God calls our soul to face its judgment.

I think your view is very interesting, that is one of the answers I thought to myself as well. Is this just your personal opinion on the matter, or do you have evidence to support why this is true (not to support if it is believed, which it clearly is if the dead are baptized on the battlefield)?

 

[runningdude]

The human body is a temple to the Holy Spirit. As such, it deserves every dignity, both during life, during the process of death, and following death.

Because there no way to truly know when the soul has fully left the body, the tradition of the wake before the funeral developed. Here people would wait with the person until it was fairly obvious no life was left. Prayers during this time are critical, as an unrepentant soul still might have time to make perfect contrition.

Then the funeral would be held, interring the body to the ground as soon as possible before the remains became corrupted. This would take about 3 days, whereby the process of decomposition would give ample evidence of death.

 

[Mumbles140]

I think your view is very interesting, that is one of the answers I thought to myself as well. Is this just your personal opinion on the matter, or do you have evidence to support why this is true (not to support if it is believed, which it clearly is if the dead are baptized on the battlefield)?

I guess you would say it is both. I know, and you’ve read above from other posters, the official Church teachings on the matter. Taking that and a basic understanding of the nature of God and our being (both soul and body), I just sort of reasoned my way to this belief. Can’t find any examples of baptizing the dead on the battlefield - everything comes up as the Mormon belief of Baptism for the Dead (very different)…

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Thank you for breaking down my questions systematically and responding, I find it very helpful.

No prob. It took a while for me to master the bb code with all those darn quote tags

I agree and think that the death you describe is exactly what total death is, but do you think that’s what was meant by the Catholic Catechism?

I don’t think the Catechism addresses either clinical death or brain death since both are medical constructs, and the Church generally doesn’t define things outside of her scope of infallibility (never mind that the Catechism isn’t in its entirety infallible anyway). The Catechism seems to do what I pointed out in my first post most others are doing here: taking death for granted and focussing on the state of being dead rather than p(name removed by moderator)ointing the moment at which death occurs.

We all know everyone dies, and everyone no matter their medical skill can identify a corpse as being dead. There’s no need for the Catechism or any cleric to p(name removed by moderator)oint death in order to discuss what occurs imminently thereafter since what’s being discussed is a sequence of events for which only the intermediate state cannot be certain.

We know for a fact A occurs before B and B occurs before C, ‘A’ as being alive, ‘B’ as the moment of death, and ‘C’ as being dead. We can confidently discuss matters concerning state ‘C’ relative to state ‘A’ without any concern for when exactly state ‘B’ occurs simply because ‘B’ is intermediate to both ‘A’ and ‘C’; it’s completely inconsequential.

Now for the philosopher or for the theologian this is likely sufficient, but since I’m an aspiring neuroscientist I find the matter of brain death more fascinating

 

[DiscipulusLucis]

We know for a fact A occurs before B and B occurs before C, ‘A’ as being alive, ‘B’ as the moment of death, and ‘C’ as being dead. We can confidently discuss matters concerning state ‘C’ relative to state ‘A’ without any concern for when exactly state ‘B’ occurs simply because ‘B’ is intermediate to both ‘A’ and ‘C’; it’s completely inconsequential.

But the Catechism makes the point that it happens immediately at the moment of death, doesn’t it? Why make that point if the moment of death is unspecified and irrelevant?

And how does the Church know this to be true if it doesn’t even know when the moment of death is? Perhaps the soul is judged 3.14 seconds after total death?

 

[runningdude]

But the Catechism makes the point that it happens immediately at the moment of death, doesn’t it? Why make that point if the moment of death is unspecified and irrelevant?

And how does the Church know this to be true if it doesn’t even know when the moment of death is? Perhaps the soul is judged 3.14 seconds after total death?

3.1415926539 seconds to be exact