If you're not born-again you're not going to Heaven??

[authenticity]

some people believe this…

i don’t really know what i believe on this … but i do believe a person has to go through a serious change to get into Heaven…

comments?

Well, you have to be without sin to get into heaven. I would say that requires a serious change. It means being transformed through our faith in Christ. This is the whole purpose of the Church and Her teaching.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Well, you have to be without sin to get into heaven. I would say that requires a serious change. It means being transformed through our faith in Christ. This is the whole purpose of the Church and Her teaching.

Teaching is worthless without conduct to match it. If teaching were enough, we would be stuck with the Old Covenant - there would be no incorporation of believers into Christ & therefore, no Church. Being told what to do can bring only condemnation & judgement & wrath, if no power to live as we are commanded is given as well.​

Christianity is top-heavy with teaching & commands - where is the holiness of life ? It’s extremely rare. Which does not suggest that Christianity is a religion most of us can follow; any more than all musicians can be Handels or Beethovens.

To expect every Christian to be Christian in life is appallingly cruel, because it is utterly unrealistic - it’s like watching a hamster in a wheel trying to escape - it won’t. That - but far worse - is the position of those Christians who try for decades to become better than they can be: because it does not happen. They are trapped by the command to be holy. So it’s idle to require them to change for the better. That is what is so evil about the message of Jesus - it brings nothing but condemnation, guilt, helplessness, & despair. It is ten thousand times worse than the Law, because it is far more radical. Christ is the enemy of the human race.

 

[authenticity]

Teaching is worthless without conduct to match it. If teaching were enough, we would be stuck with the Old Covenant - there would be no incorporation of believers into Christ & therefore, no Church. Being told what to do can bring only condemnation & judgement & wrath, if no power to live as we are commanded is given as well.​

I agree.

Christianity is top-heavy with teaching & commands - where is the holiness of life ? It’s extremely rare. Which does not suggest that Christianity is a religion most of us can follow; any more than all musicians can be Handels or Beethovens.

You are leaving out the majority of Christianity… like the Godman getting crucified and rising again. Also, it is more like teaching Handels and Beethovens how to play piano before they had learned. People are created in the image of God.

To expect every Christian to be Christian in life is appallingly cruel, because it is utterly unrealistic - it’s like watching a hamster in a wheel trying to escape - it won’t. That - but far worse - is the position of those Christians who try for decades to become better than they can be: because it does not happen.

It isn’t an expectation, so it isn’t a matter of trying.

This goes into a question of God’s Will.

They are trapped by the command to be holy.

Why do you think holiness is some kind of entrapment?

So it’s idle to require them to change for the better. That is what is so evil about the message of Jesus - it brings nothing but condemnation, guilt, helplessness, & despair. It is ten thousand times worse than the Law, because it is far more radical. Christ is the enemy of the human race.

I really hope this is sarcasm.

 

[distracted]

For us Catholics, the sacrament of Confirmation makes us followers of Jesus Christ.
As long as we remain in the church, and go to mass and confession, read our bible we are born-again and will go straight to heaven when we die.

This is NOT true…

There is a good chance that if we do all this… we will go to Heaven but even so… not directly…

most people go to Purgatory first… and from wht i can ascertain, some stay there a very long time before being admitted to Heaven… the avg stay is supposed to be 40 yrs… i think some saint said that…
Some stay longer than that…

Jesus said it was difficult to get to Heaven… (don’t know if he meant difficult AT all… even via Purg or what…) but why take chances?

anyway… i think the reason people take so long to be ready for heaven is because thye do not know themselves… don’t see the ugliness of htier sins… make excuses for them, rationalize… etc etc… which, of course, leads to blindless to their sins … to the point maybe they don’t even see them anymore… don’t see them as “big” sins…

but there is no rationalization in Purgatory… or if there is… it gets dealt with … and i’ve heard that Purgatory is excrutiating… uch::banghead:

True, no one knows for sure… (that we know of, that is…) but I’d prefer not to take any chances… besides the Word is clear - and common sense (the conscience, etc) tells us that something is wrong behavior… it’s not like you have to be a rocket scientist, for example, to figure out that, say, stealing from your neighbor’s garden is a sin… etc, etc…

 

[distracted]

Huh???
Then why do people here constantly make a point out of saying that no one can be CERTAIN that they’re saved?

Post 44 = Catholic teaching… (except for the speculative part)

 

[distracted]

Teaching is worthless without conduct to match it. If teaching were enough, we would be stuck with the Old Covenant - there would be no incorporation of believers into Christ & therefore, no Church. Being told what to do can bring only condemnation & judgement & wrath, if no power to live as we are commanded is given as well.​

Christianity is top-heavy with teaching & commands - where is the holiness of life ? It’s extremely rare. Which does not suggest that Christianity is a religion most of us can follow; any more than all musicians can be Handels or Beethovens.

To expect every Christian to be Christian in life is appallingly cruel, because it is utterly unrealistic - it’s like watching a hamster in a wheel trying to escape - it won’t. That - but far worse - is the position of those Christians who try for decades to become better than they can be: because it does not happen. They are trapped by the command to be holy. So it’s idle to require them to change for the better. That is what is so evil about the message of Jesus - it brings nothing but condemnation, guilt, helplessness, & despair. It is ten thousand times worse than the Law, because it is far more radical. Christ is the enemy of the human race.

well, at least you don’t put “Catholic” at the top of your posts anymore…