Ignatius the God-bearer

[jmcdzzz]

If this is in the wrong forum, please let me know where it should go. I’ll be happy to delete it and re-post it elsewhere.

I am reading The Letter of Ignatius to the Ephesians. The version I am reading is from The Apostolic Fathers, Vol I. from Harvard University Press. Right at the beginning of the letter, it reads, “Ignatius, who is also called God-bearer …”

I know this is the the English title that Orthodox use for the Holy Mother, but it appears to me that the Greek words used are slightly different. Can anyone tell me what the difference is between these two?

Ignatius uses: Θεοφόρος
For Mary: Θεοτόκος

 

[Orate]

try asking the Eastern Catholic group… sounds like it would be right up their alley.

 

[Volodymyr_988]

Theotokos is a compound of two Greek words, Θεός God and τόκος parturition, childbirth. Literally, this translates as God-bearer or the one who gives birth to God.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theotokos

Besides his Latin name, Ignatius, he also called himself Theophorus (“God Bearer”), and tradition says he was one of the children Jesus took in His arms and blessed. St. Ignatius may have been a disciple of the Apostle John.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Antioch

The guys over at Byzcath told me (on the computer screen) that Theotokos is more properly "Birth-Giver of God.)

 

[SedesDomi]

Think “Christopher” – “Christ-bearer” (from Greek “Khristophoros”).

 

[MikeDunphy]

A translator had this to say about the word Θεοτόκος:Throughout this volume I have translated it “Mother of God,” and I propose giving my reasons for considering this the only accurate translation of the word, both from a lexico-graphical and from a theological point of view.(a) It is evident that the word is a composite formed of Θεός = God, and τίκτειν = to be the mother of a child. Now I have translated the verbal part “to be the mother of a child” because “to bear” in English does not necessarily carry the full meaning of the Greek word, which (as Bp. Pearson has well remarked in the passage cited above) includes “conception, nutrition, and parturition.” It has been suggested that “God-bearer” is an exact translation. To this I object, that in the first place it is not English; and in the second that it would be an equally and, to my mind, more accurate translation of Θεοφόρος than of Θεοτόκος. …[more http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.x.ix.ii.html”]here]Reading between the lines, I would guess that Θεοφόρος does not have the maternal implications that Θεοτόκος has*.*

I also found this footnote in a history of the early Church, which says of Ignatius:1226 θεοφόρος–ϊ,–ͅϊ" bearer of God."The titles of the Epistles call him Ἰγνάτιος ὁ καὶ θεοφόρος, adding simply the Greek to the Latin name. The Martyrium Ignatii, c. 2, makes him explain the term, in answer to a question of Trajan, as meaning " one who has Christ in his breast."The still later legend (in Symeon Metaphrastes and the Menaea Graeca), by changing the accent. (θεόφορος, Theophorus), gives the name the passive meaning, “one carried by God.” because Ignatius was the child whom Christ took up in his arms and set before his disciples as a pattern of humilit y (Matt. 18:2). So the Acta Sanctorum, 1 Febr. I. 28. The Syrians called him Nurono, the Fiery, in allusion to his Latin name from Ignis.This web page says that Θεοφόρος means ‘bearing’ or ‘carrying a god.’

 

[Cluny]

**“Ignatius, who is also called God-bearer …”

I know this is the the English title that Orthodox use for the Holy Mother,**

The proper English calch of Theotokos is Birthgiver of God (as in Arabic and Romanian) or literally “Godbirthgiver”.

But either is awkward in English to say and even more to sing.

That’s why we generally use either the Greek word or “Mother of God.”

 

[jmcdzzz]

Great! Thanks a lot y’all. I knew I could count on the people on this site.

Thank God for the internet. If it weren’t for this forum and the CA website, I would probably have never come back to the Church.

 

[Volodymyr_988]

Glad to have you back!