Ignorance amongst Laity

[bkovacs]

I have asked several older Catholics, if there was any plan on offering the Tridentine Mass in their parish. I even went to a St. Jude Religious Shop and asked if they were planning on selling Baronious Press, or Angulus Press Missals in the near future. At St. Jude’s they told me that they were going to offer more spanish Missals, and that the Latin Mass may be offered at parishes with Italians. Is it me or are these people confused or are they playing stupid. The TLM has nothing to do with Italians and spanish missals are not the same as TLM Missals. They don’t even carry one single Douay-Rheims Bible, all NAB. They do carry plenty of KJV Bibles though. Which I would probably take over the NAB. But even the older Catholics I asked were just as confused. “What is the Tridentine Mass?” they replied to me. Correct me people is this the same church that we talk about in these forums or is it a different one?. I read a beautiful book by Archbishop Fulton Sheen on the Mass, which of course was the TLM. And all I could think about is where has this Church gone to. Has it vanished?. . Even if you listen to EWTN, they play modern day religious music, like most Protoestant stations do on their Catholic Juke Box. I need to listen to XM’x Vox od XM Classics to hear Gregorian Chant and those classic hymns that Pope Benedict enjoys. Something is very wrong here. Or I need to find a job and move to Rome!.

 

[Genesis315]

Older folks lived during the time of Fulton Sheen, so it seems ignorance dates more from that era. Younger people actually tend to be more on the ball with this kind of thing.:tiphat:

 

[bkovacs]

What is also funny is that this older lady at St Jude’s said that the priests had a hard time just trying to get parishiners to stay in the church let alone offer a Mass in Latin. All I could think is that maybe if they did offer the TLM, maybe people might not leave, or come back to the Church. Seems like another excuse not to offer it.

 

[latinmasslover]

What is also funny is that this older lady at St Jude’s said that the priests had a hard time just trying to get parishiners to stay in the church let alone offer a Mass in Latin. All I could think is that maybe if they did offer the TLM, maybe people might not leave, or come back to the Church. Seems like another excuse not to offer it.

I think it’s more along the lines of ignorance. The New Rite was supposed to bring people into the Church, esp. those who had left for Protestant churches, but it didn’t have that effect. Since that was the intention and it didn’t work, they probably figure going back to the TLM will be even worse. They’re simply misinformed. Try to get a petition started if you can for the TLM, and encourage the priest to at least give it a try for a month or so and see what happens. Keep praying.

 

[Cathryn]

I read a beautiful book by Archbishop Fulton Sheen on the Mass, which of course was the TLM. And all I could think about is where has this Church gone to. Has it vanished?. .

I have that book. This is the Mass. I love it. I find that most Catholics (my family, friends, aquantances) don’t read Catholic books. Most don’t try to learn about their faith. Many seem to believe that ignorance is bliss. They believe they are already doing enough, and don’t want to do any more. Being on top of the latest words of the Pope is not something any of them would be aware of, or feel they need to really care about. Puzzling to me. If I love something, I want to know everything I can about it.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Older folks lived during the time of Fulton Sheen, so it seems ignorance dates more from that era. Younger people actually tend to be more on the ball with this kind of thing.:tiphat:

I’m 56. Does that qualify me as old? I can remember Fulton Sheen back in the dark ages when I was a kid and TV was only in black and white. Please do not underestimate my generation. I went through the transition from the TLM to the NO when I was in high school. There were far more people who were shocked by the changes but endured them for the sake of obedience to HMC. It is a myth that the NO was enthusiastically embraced in toto.

I sing in a cathedral choir where we do sing Latin motets and Gregorian chant. I had every hope that we would finally be able to sing at a Solemn High Mass in Latin. My hopes were dashed when the Motu Proprio was released and our bishop merely said that he “acknowledged” it.

The silence of my generation is due to obedience to HMC not ignorance.

 

[Like]

I’m 56. Does that qualify me as old? I can remember Fulton Sheen back in the dark ages when I was a kid and TV was only in black and white. Please do not underestimate my generation. I went through the transition from the TLM to the NO when I was in high school. There were far more people who were shocked by the changes but endured them for the sake of obedience to HMC. It is a myth that the NO was enthusiastically embraced in toto.

I sing in a cathedral choir where we do sing Latin motets and Gregorian chant. I had every hope that we would finally be able to sing at a Solemn High Mass in Latin. My hopes were dashed when the Motu Proprio was released and our bishop merely said that he “acknowledged” it.

The silence of my generation is due to obedience to HMC not ignorance.

WOW! They had TV’s Back Then?

Sorry, I hear that all the time from my grandkids.
And I do agree with you totally.

 

[brotherhrolf]

WOW! They had TV’s Back Then?

Sorry, I hear that all the time from my grandkids.
And I do agree with you totally.

Forty some odd years have passed but it seems like yesterday. Now I understand what my mother and father told me: you’ll understand when you are older…

 

[Like]

Forty some odd years have passed but it seems like yesterday. Now I understand what my mother and father told me: you’ll understand when you are older…

Whats that old saying? OH yeah! The older I get, the smarter my dad gets.

 

[ThuribleGuy45]

Older folks lived during the time of Fulton Sheen, so it seems ignorance dates more from that era. Younger people actually tend to be more on the ball with this kind of thing.:tiphat:

That’s a remarkably offensive and ill-informed, sterotypical and ageist comment coming from someone 26. I would bet real money that involved Catholics in their 50’s and 60’s, who in fact grew up “during the time of Fulton Sheen,” are, on average, FAR better-informed and better grounded in the Faith, especially those of us blessed with the opportunity for schooling during the heyday of Catholic schools, before their near-dissolution and hijacking by modern religious teaching theories and the disappearance of the “good sisters.” If “ignorance” can be said to date from any era, I’d place it closer to the “era” of burlap banners, Kumbya, and what passes for CCD (meaning no offense to the hard-working volunteers who do the best they can in the thankless job of teaching the Faith with frequently awful CCD materials).

 

[otjm]

What is also funny is that this older lady at St Jude’s said that the priests had a hard time just trying to get parishiners to stay in the church let alone offer a Mass in Latin. All I could think is that maybe if they did offer the TLM, maybe people might not leave, or come back to the Church.

Unlikely, since one of the more popular moral questions pre-Vatican 2 was “how Late can I come to Mass and how early can I leave and still fufill my obligation?”

 

[otjm]

I have that book. This is the Mass. I love it. I find that most Catholics (my family, friends, aquantances) don’t read Catholic books. Most don’t try to learn about their faith. Many seem to believe that ignorance is bliss. They believe they are already doing enough, and don’t want to do any more. Being on top of the latest words of the Pope is not something any of them would be aware of, or feel they need to really care about. Puzzling to me. If I love something, I want to know everything I can about it.

I will try to break this to you gently: most Catholics didn’t read Catholic books before Vatican 2, either. They had memorized the answers to the questions in the Balitimore Catchism, and as far as they were concerned, they knew what they had to know. And furthermore, there are way more books available now than there were then 9and not always to anyone’s benefit).

 

[bpbasilphx]

Don’t feel bad.

I went to a Catholic religious goods store and asked for 15 hour votive candle glasses. The clerk tried to sell me 14 day candles. I replied I wanted 15 hour glasses, and she repsonded, “14 day candles.” This went on for a while before I left in disgust.

 

[THutch04]

This might be a dumb question, but did you refer to it specifically as the Tridentine Mass? Because maybe some people honestly don’t know that it’s called that. They might just know it as “the old Mass” or “the Latin Mass.” I’m certainly not of the age where I would know this, but I would assume it wasn’t ever called the Tridentine Mass when it was the only one available, it was just called “the Mass.” Some of the older Catholics might not even remember all of the changes that took place. I’ve spoken to several Catholics who only vaguely remember the Mass being said in Latin, but most of their memories of Mass were of the Novus Ordo. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t care enough to read about the Church and find out what all is going on in it. And I will agree that a lot of the people who are taking a lot of initiative with petitioning for the Latin Mass are younger.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

I have asked several older Catholics, if there was any plan on offering the Tridentine Mass in their parish. I even went to a St. Jude Religious Shop and asked if they were planning on selling Baronious Press, or Angulus Press Missals in the near future. At St. Jude’s they told me that they were going to offer more spanish Missals, and that the Latin Mass may be offered at parishes with Italians. Is it me or are these people confused or are they playing stupid. The TLM has nothing to do with Italians and spanish missals are not the same as TLM Missals. They don’t even carry one single Douay-Rheims Bible, all NAB. They do carry plenty of KJV Bibles though. Which I would probably take over the NAB. But even the older Catholics I asked were just as confused. “What is the Tridentine Mass?” they replied to me. Correct me people is this the same church that we talk about in these forums or is it a different one?. I read a beautiful book by Archbishop Fulton Sheen on the Mass, which of course was the TLM. And all I could think about is where has this Church gone to. Has it vanished?. . Even if you listen to EWTN, they play modern day religious music, like most Protoestant stations do on their Catholic Juke Box. I need to listen to XM’x Vox od XM Classics to hear Gregorian Chant and those classic hymns that Pope Benedict enjoys. Something is very wrong here. Or I need to find a job and move to Rome!.

Even though you do not say where you are, the store you mentioned, i believe gives you away on where you live (Philadelphia). If so, I stopped going to those stores when I lived in the area. If I am correct, check the Pauline Books & Media store in the area (They have stores all over the country if I am wrong). If anyone would have what you are looking for, they would.

 

[IrishAm]

WOW! They had TV’s Back Then?

I tell my grandkids that yes, we had TV, but the reception was really bad because of the dinosaurs stomping around outside the cave.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I will try to break this to you gently: most Catholics didn’t read Catholic books before Vatican 2, either. They had memorized the answers to the questions in the Balitimore Catchism, and as far as they were concerned, they knew what they had to know. And furthermore, there are way more books available now than there were then 9and not always to anyone’s benefit).

Sorry, I beg to disagree. Yes, I did memorize the questions in the Baltimore Catechism - in Catholic grade school But in eigth grade I went to my Catholic high school where I was blessed to have been taught by the Brothers of the Sacred Heart during, as an earlier poster put it, the heyday of Catholic schools. With religion classes five days a week for five years, I got a very good formation in the faith. We were exposed to Augustine, Aquinas, the history of HMC, and Scripture to name but a few.

My generation should not be painted with such a broad brush. The “seed” as Our Lord tells it, fell then, as it does now, on different soil. Were there folks who slept through it all - yes.

On the other hand, my Catholic high school has a strong alumni association. Thirty-eight years later my classmates are still involved in HMC all across the spectrum. A dear friend of mine still plays guitar for his parish just as I sing Gregorian chant and Latin motets for mine. I don’t think you would have seen this level of activity had the Brothers not done their job in fertilizing the seed which was planted.

 

[catharina]

I have asked several older Catholics, if there was any plan on offering the Tridentine Mass in their parish. I even went to a St. Jude Religious Shop and asked if they were planning on selling Baronious Press, or Angulus Press Missals in the near future. At St. Jude’s they told me that they were going to offer more spanish Missals, and that the Latin Mass may be offered at parishes with Italians. Is it me or are these people confused or are they playing stupid. The TLM has nothing to do with Italians and spanish missals are not the same as TLM Missals. They don’t even carry one single Douay-Rheims Bible, all NAB. They do carry plenty of KJV Bibles though. Which I would probably take over the NAB. But even the older Catholics I asked were just as confused. “What is the Tridentine Mass?” they replied to me. Correct me people is this the same church that we talk about in these forums or is it a different one?. I read a beautiful book by Archbishop Fulton Sheen on the Mass, which of course was the TLM. And all I could think about is where has this Church gone to. Has it vanished?. . Even if you listen to EWTN, they play modern day religious music, like most Protoestant stations do on their Catholic Juke Box. I need to listen to XM’x Vox od XM Classics to hear Gregorian Chant and those classic hymns that Pope Benedict enjoys. Something is very wrong here. Or I need to find a job and move to Rome!.

Just a guess but you might want to pose the question again to “older parishoners” but use the phrase traditional-Latin-Mass. As one of the “older ones” in the Church, while I understand the term TLM, the term “Tridentine Mass” means little to me.

Remember the old guidelines for communication?
First point: Define Your Terms.

 

[sphilomena]

That’s a remarkably offensive and ill-informed, sterotypical and ageist comment coming from someone 26. I would bet real money that involved Catholics in their 50’s and 60’s, who in fact grew up “during the time of Fulton Sheen,” are, on average, FAR better-informed and better grounded in the Faith, especially those of us blessed with the opportunity for schooling during the heyday of Catholic schools, before their near-dissolution and hijacking by modern religious teaching theories and the disappearance of the “good sisters.” If “ignorance” can be said to date from any era, I’d place it closer to the “era” of burlap banners, Kumbya, and what passes for CCD (meaning no offense to the hard-working volunteers who do the best they can in the thankless job of teaching the Faith with frequently awful CCD materials).

Wow, I couldn’t agree more! What an insult to those of us who are “older”. The burlap banner, Kumbaya era ruined my children, even though we tried to teach the Faith at home. And re another post, it was just the “Mass”, there was no other! Brother’s comment is accurate also - silence due to obedience. The changes caught us off guard and we were like the frog in cold water.

The Baltimore catechism was a starting point. It was part of the foundation the holy nuns and priests gave me all the way through college (which was truly Catholic through the time I graduated). I have continued to educate myself since then in a number of ways, and I can say the same for many of my contemporaries.

 

[Genesis315]

The silence of my generation is due to obedience to HMC not ignorance.

The OP was not discussing silence, but not even knowing anything about the Motu Propio or the Traditional Latin Mass.

Many of us get our information about such things from the internet which the older generations don’t have as a great a handle on (present company excluded, obviously ).