Ignorant Question No. 1: Why does Our Lord Jesus still suffer for us?

[Abba]

I understand he suffered during the passion, and that he is the High Priest and offered himself to the Father as a sacrifice for our sins, but, why does he still have to suffer? How exactly is he suffering? Is it only his wounds that are not healing? Is he also suffering with his his sacred heart? Why was it that his sacrifice on the Cross was not sufficient?

Why the need for visible and mystical stigmata?

I am trying to better understand - sacrifice.

Thank you,

Abba

P.s.

Why is Our Blessed Mother Mary suffering and how?

 

[JRKH]

Good question(s)

Basically Christ continues to suffer because we continue to sin.

Think of a loving parent who watches their child make poor decisions. Do they not suffer? Will they not continue to suffer so long as teh child continues to sin? So it is with Christ our king.

As far as sufficiancy goes, the Cross was quite sufficient for what it was intended, the general restoration of man to God. Where it is insufficient is to cover each individual’s suffering. In order for us to be saved, we must be willing to follow Christ, even to the cross. To unite our suffering with his.

Why the stigmata is necessary - is as a sign to us all that Christ is real, the Church is real and that Salvation is real.

Hope this helps a little

Peace
James

 

[Scoobyshme]

Keep in mind that Jesus is God, and God is outside of time. We live from “moment to moment.” He does not. He is simultaneously in the past, present, and future, all at once. So, in that way, He is still on the Cross. And we re-present Him on the Cross at every Mass. That’s why the Mass is so important to us.

 

[Barbkw]

Jesus wishes that all souls return to Him, so that they may share in His eternity.

We know, that many humans have no regard for God the Father, God the Son or God the Holy Spirit, or for their eternal souls.

He became the Incarnate Word and He suffered died and Resurrected to show man the need to be personally reconciled with God.

Jesus’ suffering for humanity in that regard - will last until the end of days.

 

[Abba]

Good question(s)

Basically Christ continues to suffer because we continue to sin.

Think of a loving parent who watches their child make poor decisions. Do they not suffer? Will they not continue to suffer so long as teh child continues to sin? So it is with Christ our king.

As far as sufficiancy goes, the Cross was quite sufficient for what it was intended, the general restoration of man to God. Where it is insufficient is to cover each individual’s suffering. In order for us to be saved, we must be willing to follow Christ, even to the cross. To unite our suffering with his.

Why the stigmata is necessary - is as a sign to us all that Christ is real, the Church is real and that Salvation is real.

Hope this helps a little

Peace
James

Thank you JRKH and everyone else for your assistance.

Well, isn’t it the case that Our Lord took upon himself all of the sins from the past, at the time of his crucifixion and the future? It wasn’t just for the general reconciliation of man with God? It was not only to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and it’s repercussions? Wasn’t it also for the sins that you and I committed and will commit before we die? Isn’t this why we say that Our Lord died for me and for you?

 

[Abba]

Keep in mind that Jesus is God, and God is outside of time. We live from “moment to moment.” He does not. He is simultaneously in the past, present, and future, all at once. So, in that way, He is still on the Cross. And we re-present Him on the Cross at every Mass. That’s why the Mass is so important to us.

But, I understand that there will be an end to his suffering at the end of time when the saved will no longer sin and live in his presence? Isn’t this so? Why would God necessarily suffer for all eternity because he did something once? Could it be the case, that with the crucifixion this is so until the end of time, due to it’s immense value as an offering, but not with everything? I mean, is he always visiting Saint Faustina? This would be to trap him in time, in a way, no?

 

[JRKH]

Thank you JRKH and everyone else for your assistance.

Well, isn’t it the case that Our Lord took upon himself all of the sins from the past, at the time of his crucifixion and the future? It wasn’t just for the general reconciliation of man with God? It was not only to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and it’s repercussions? Wasn’t it also for the sins that you and I committed and will commit before we die? Isn’t this why we say that Our Lord died for me and for you?

It is indeed all of these things. But as another pointed out, Christ exists outside of time. In a sense this makes the concept of his still suffering a mystery. For He is still suffering and yet at the same “time” past the suffering and triumphant.
Mainly the idea of his continual suffering and his sacrifice being “insufficient” is viewing it from our limited perspective. It is our heart, and the heart of Christ within us, that is wounded when we sin. Each time we sin is like a hammer blow on one of His nails or like a strike of the lash upon His back. And even more significantly it wounds our own soul which we have committed to Him. As a member of The Church we are part of His body. how can we harm ourselves by sin without harming Him?

Pece
James

 

[Claire_from_DE]

**Jesus is ascended into heaven and is ‘at the right hand of the Father’ in glory. He is not physically in pain and suffering in His glorified body. He is still our sacrifice; He intercedes for us before the Father. His sacrifice at Mass is an unbloody sacrifice. It makes present for us the effects of His death but He does not again feel the lash or the pain of the nails.

Although Jesus’ suffering in His physical body is over, in a real sense it is always before the eyes of the Father. The sins we commit today are those very ones that wounded Him during His passion and for which He died.**

 

[Abba]

G
Think of a loving parent who watches their child make poor decisions. Do they not suffer? Will they not continue to suffer so long as teh child continues to sin? So it is with Christ our king.

Thank you for your assistance, James and everyone else.

Well, the above does not seem to me in my ignorance to be comparable. Because, it is not the same for a parent to suffer because a child continues to make poor decisions and the sacrifice of Our Lord Jesus at Calvary. The way I undertand it is that Our Lord suffered, died and was buried - IN ATONEMEN FOR OUR SINS - for ALL of our sins from the beginning to the end of time. If this is so, why does he still suffer? The way people presented is that we are making him suffer with our sins, but, why should he suffer when he already paid a price for it? He is God so it is not that he is being hurt by our sins, right? All his suffering has been as a sacrifice, right?

Archbishop Fulton Sheen in a lecture of his entitled: The Enduring Freshness of the Wounds of Christ ( fultonsheen.com/Fulton-Sheen-MP3.cfm ) notes that John sees a Lamb in Heaven with the marks of slaughter. He also points out that Our Lord said: It is finished, but Paul said; It is not finished. Unfortunately, the lecture does not answer my question.

I also consider Saint Thomas and wonder how he knew that Our Lord would still have the wounds in his resurrected glorified body. Saint Thomas understood what I do not understand. I think I will pray to Saint Thomas to help me understand. It is a very important thing to understand because it opens many doors to other understandings.

I don’t understand why Our Lord still suffers…

Maybe this will help: What is finished and what is not finished. What is finished according to Jesus and what is not finished according to Paul and why?

Peace,

Abba

 

[JRKH]

Abba,
I wish I had better answers for you. The fact is that these things are mysteries beyond my power to comprehend beyond the simple analogies that I have offered.

Perhaps someone else can provide the answers you seek. Perhaps you just need to pray and wait upon the Lord to grant you the understanding you need.

Peace
James

 

[Abba]

Perhaps you just need to pray and wait upon the Lord to grant you the understanding you need.

Peace
James

Thank you James. I think I am going to have to practice patience on this one and wait for the Lord to as you put it ‘grant’ me understanding. I am going to pray to Saint Thomas too. Many saints understood it clearly, but, I don’t…

Well, Socrates said that patience is a virtue; maybe that’s it, Our Lord wants me to develop this virtue a bit more. Let me tell you, I most certainly need to work on this virtue.

I was just searching ‘suffer’ in the Bible, read a lot of interesting things but still nothing. One of these days with the Grace of God the veil will drop. It looks like it may just take the veil dropping for me to understand this one, but, Our Lord helps many stupid people. I can be a witness to that as once at Confession, I realized something with the Grace of God and I just thought as I walked away; how could I be so blind and stupid as not to have seen this before nor recognized it. Our Lord took down a veil for me and I was able to see clearer. Maybe that is what will happen with this one. I just want to understand so that I will know and also because it will permit me to appreciate sacrifice, etc…

I hope is not something bad that I am doing or some inclinations of mine that are forbidding me to understand. I have seen in some people an inability to understand or accept a teaching caused by their own earthly attachments, personal desires and self love. I hope this is not the situation for me and it is just that somehow I just need to wait and develop other understandings…etc…

Sorry to ramble…

Peace,

Abba

 

[JRKH]

Thank you James. I think I am going to have to practice patience on this one and wait for the Lord to as you put it ‘grant’ me understanding. I am going to pray to Saint Thomas too. Many saints understood it clearly, but, I don’t…

Well, Socrates said that patience is a virtue; maybe that’s it, Our Lord wants me to develop this virtue a bit more. Let me tell you, I most certainly need to work on this virtue.

I was just searching ‘suffer’ in the Bible, read a lot of interesting things but still nothing. One of these days with the Grace of God the veil will drop. It looks like it may just take the veil dropping for me to understand this one, but, Our Lord helps many stupid people. I can be a witness to that as once at Confession, I realized something with the Grace of God and I just thought as I walked away; how could I be so blind and stupid as not to have seen this before nor recognized it. Our Lord took down a veil for me and I was able to see clearer. Maybe that is what will happen with this one. I just want to understand so that I will know and also because it will permit me to appreciate sacrifice, etc…

I hope is not something bad that I am doing or some inclinations of mine that are forbidding me to understand. I have seen in some people an inability to understand or accept a teaching caused by their own earthly attachments, personal desires and self love. I hope this is not the situation for me and it is just that somehow I just need to wait and develop other understandings…etc…

Sorry to ramble…

Peace,

Abba

Abba,
I know about rambling…believe me…So there is no need to apologize.

I think that part of the problem for many of us is that we try too hard to understand things through our logical, linear, rational thought paradigm. We want to have answers fit to a, “If…then…”, style of understanding. Unfortunately God’s ways are not our ways, and so these things don’t always fit our nice neat desire for “logical flow”…

Just as an example, you mention receiving a grace, an understanding, as you were leaving confession. When it hit, and you understood, it seemed so simple.
But I’ll bet that I can tell you something about this that might fit what we ar talking about here.
When you received the grace, the understanding, it hit you in an instant and the various pieces that you had been considering instantly fell into place. All of this took far less time than it took me to type this short post. BUT - I’ll bet that if you tried to “explain” your new understanding it would require much time to compose and probably several paragraphs.
The reason for this is because you would be trying to explain “logically” what God granted to you mystically. Our Logic, and our Language, is so limited (by our human intellect) that it is not always up to the task of adequately explaining in many words, what God can impart with a single breath.

I can only image how frustrated Jesus must have been with us. He spent three years and who knows how many words - lessons and parables and actions - all in an effort to explain that it’s all about Love…
Maybe that’s why He still suffers…Not for our “sins” in the objective sense, but that we, even after 2000 years, just don’t seem to get it. Maybe his suffering isn’t from the wounds of the cross so much as from :banghead: and :doh2: over our stiff necks and mental density…

Maybe not…

Long story short, you already have experience with waiting for enlightenment. So you know what I mean. Just keep praying, and studying, and asking. But don’t try too hard to “organize it”. Just put the info in, place it before the Lord, and let him get back to you in His time.

Peace
James