II Mac. 7: 28 Creation from nothing?

[Jim_Baur]

Is II Mac. 7: 28 the only Bible passages that clearly state creation from no other existing things?

Thanks!!!

 

[fermat]

I would start with Genesis 1:1. It does not say ‘there was nothing then God created the heavens and the earth’, but the implication that there was nothing else and, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Is there a particular reason you are looking for a passage as such?

 

[Jim_Baur]

Yes!

The primary reason is that the creation accounts need other parts of the Bible to explain there literal meaning.

As you pointed out, the creation account of Genesis one does not explain the literal meaning of creation, but II Mac. 7: 28 does. God created from no existing being(s).

I was looking for further Biblical passages to help me understand the literal meaning of creation.

Thanks!

Any other help would be great.

Again, thanks!

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Is II Mac. 7: 28 the only Bible passages that clearly state creation from no other existing things?

Thanks!!!

“All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1

 

[TheosisM]

“All things were made through him, and without him nothing was made that has been made.” John 1

This is a good one.

I would stay away from Genesis 1:1. Depending on the translation, it can be read as supporting creatio ex nihilo, or simply being neutral on the matter. I am currently reading a book called “The Priestly Vision of Genesis 1”, by Mark S. Smith, an Old Testament scholar (and professor of Bible and Near Eastern Studies at NYU). He notes that the KJV translation of Genesis 1:1 is erroneous based on the Hebrew, and that the NRSV and the NAB (which is a Catholic translation, as I’m sure we all know ) correctly translates it as “In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth”, instead of “In the beginning, God created…”. This is important, because the way the NAB translates it does not necessarily lead to the conclusion of creatio ex nihilo (since it can be read as referring to the beginning when God began to create, instead of an “absolute” beginning). In fact, Smith concludes (in the notes) that “creatio ex nihilo is not the view of Genesis 1”.

Anyway, 2 Macc 7:28 is probably the only verse in the Bible that explicitly rejects creation from pre-existing matter.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Anyway, 2 Macc 7:28 is probably the only verse in the Bible that explicitly rejects creation from pre-existing matter.

Interestingly, John 1 has a great deal of logical nuance: “without him nothing was made that has been made”. What of those things that have not been made? This category includes:

Uncontroversially, God.
Controversially, the laws of logic and mathematics.

To argue that John 1 does not refer to (roughly) *ex nihilo *creation, one must claim that there are substances that have not been made – or, alternately, have not been made by God. No such substance seems forthcoming in the gospel of John; thus, it’s pretty much an open-and-shut case that this is what John intended.

 

[TheosisM]

Interestingly, John 1 has a great deal of logical nuance: “without him nothing was made that has been made”. What of those things that have not been made? This category includes:

Uncontroversially, God.
Controversially, the laws of logic and mathematics.

To argue that John 1 does not refer to (roughly) *ex nihilo *creation, one must claim that there are substances that have not been made – or, alternately, have not been made by God. No such substance seems forthcoming in the gospel of John; thus, it’s pretty much an open-and-shut case that this is what John intended.

Agreed. I have seen a Mormon focus on this verse before.

 

[RobNY]

6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, and all their host by the breath of his mouth.
7 He gathered the waters of the sea as in a bottle; he put the deeps in storehouses.
8 Let all the earth fear the LORD, let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him!
9 For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood forth.

Psalm 33 (32), v. 6-9.

Interestingly, John 1 has a great deal of logical nuance: “without him nothing was made that has been made”. What of those things that have not been made? This category includes:

Uncontroversially, God.
Controversially, the laws of logic and mathematics.

To argue that John 1 does not refer to (roughly) ex nihilo creation, one must claim that there are substances that have not been mahttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=6181337de – or, alternately, have not been made by God. No such substance seems forthcoming in the gospel of John; thus, it’s pretty much an open-and-shut case that this is what John intended

Creation ex nihilo seems to be a debate, not about eternal forms, anyway, but with the Platonists and Aristotelians about prime matter. Did God shape only, or create even the raw material which He then shaped? I think that John answers that pretty conclusively, and that any questions about mathematical or Platonic forms is more or less irrelevant to that. So yes, I think John does answer it pretty conclusively.