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Texas_Roofer
Guest
The statistic is false. Unless you can produce some documentation, it appears to come from a hatemonger that used wild assumptions to produce this. It is the equal of saying you have a 50% of winning the lottery if you buy a ticket as the outcomes are “win” or “do not win”. Or saying the most dangerous thing you do is to obtain medical treatment because statistically people dying are most commonly obtaining medical treatment, so do not be medically treated and you are more likely to live?
btw the hatemonger is a Texan
btw the hatemonger is a Texan
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geezerbob
Guest
The article in WND had links to the sources. One of the sources cited was a congressman from Iowa. What the heck are you talking about? Did we read the same article? Please explain yourself.
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hoosiertoo
Guest
Okay. Suppose I stipulate that the given statistcs are generally correct.
I’m assuming that you think this is a problem and that there is some sort of solution.
What do you suggest?
BTW - in 2001, legal Saudi aliens killed an average of 8 people a day.
I’m assuming that you think this is a problem and that there is some sort of solution.
What do you suggest?
BTW - in 2001, legal Saudi aliens killed an average of 8 people a day.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Actually the sources are to documenting someone else said it. So try to chase down the statistics. Your poop meter will be howling!! It goes like this category 1
So and so said so and so said it -
So and so said so and so said it -
So and so said so and so said it -
So and so said so and so said it -
So and so said so and so said it -
Then you have category 2
An illegal immigrant was convicted of this one murder…
An illegal immigrant was convicted of this one murder…
Yes so how many sources would you need to document in this manner? answer is 12/day or 4380/year. And how many to you have? a dozen, a hundred total documented over 3 years? In fact the fact is if you can only document ~100 cases per 3 years, you have great evidence the statistic is FALSE.
Or if you simply have common sense, you can say about 50 are murdered per day so are illegal immigrates killing 25%? In your town, your neighbor’s town, your state
“In God we trust, all others are to bring data”- Dr Deming
So and so said so and so said it -
So and so said so and so said it -
So and so said so and so said it -
So and so said so and so said it -
So and so said so and so said it -
Then you have category 2
An illegal immigrant was convicted of this one murder…
An illegal immigrant was convicted of this one murder…
Yes so how many sources would you need to document in this manner? answer is 12/day or 4380/year. And how many to you have? a dozen, a hundred total documented over 3 years? In fact the fact is if you can only document ~100 cases per 3 years, you have great evidence the statistic is FALSE.
Or if you simply have common sense, you can say about 50 are murdered per day so are illegal immigrates killing 25%? In your town, your neighbor’s town, your state
“In God we trust, all others are to bring data”- Dr Deming
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hoosiertoo
Guest
*"In the 1980s and 1990s researchers have concluded, or at least have lent support to the conclusion, that immigrants commit proportionately no more than and possibly even fewer crimes than native-born citizens. The General Accounting Office, analyzing FBI records, found that foreign-born individuals accounted for about 19 percent of the total arrests in 1985 in six selected major cities.8 The foreign-born represented 19.6 percent of the aggregate population. While “foreign-born” can mean refer to citizens as well as aliens,9 the study makes an implicit case that immigrant crime is in line with the rest of the country.
Kristin Butcher of Boston College and Anne Morrison Piehl of Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, using 1980 and 1990 Census Public Use Microdata Samples, found that among men aged 18-40 immigrants were less likely to be in correctional institutions than the native-born.10 If native-born men had the institutionalization rates of immigrants with the same demographic traits, the former’s institutionalized population would be only two-thirds the current size. The authors added that immigrants who had arrived at an earlier point in time were more likely to be in prison than recent entrants. This stood in contrast to the prevailing view of labor economists that earlier immigrants were more successful, and hence less likely to see crime as a substitute for gainful employment.
Butcher and Piehl conducted a separate study of several dozen U.S. metropolitan areas.11 Using data from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, the authors found recent immigrants had no significant effect either on crime rates or the change in rates over time. In a secondary analysis of individual data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, youths born abroad were significantly less likely than native-born youths to be criminally active.
John Hagan of the University of Toronto and Alberto Palloni of the University of Wisconsin also found a weak link between immigration and crime.12 Examining criminal justice data in two U.S. border cities, El Paso and San Diego, Hagan and Palloni argued immigrants are disproportionately represented among prison inmates because of biases in processes that lead from pre-trial detention to sentencing. The criminal justice system views immigrants as potential “flight risks,” they noted, and thus detains many suspects who otherwise (as citizens) would not be detained. The authors concluded that incarceration rates, depending on the national origin of the criminal, exaggerate by anywhere from three to seven times the crime rates of immigrants relative to citizens.
INS data, recently made available at the request of the House and Senate Appropriations subcommittees that fund the agency’s budget, show a lower recidivism rate for immigrants. Of the 35,318 criminal aliens INS released from custody (but not did not deport) during October 1994 and May 1999 there were 11,605 who went on to commit new crimes. This recidivism (repeat offender) rate of 37 percent was well below the 66 percent figure for the U.S. criminal population for the comparable period.13 This discrepancy did not dissuade Rep. Hal Rogers, R-Ky., and Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., the respective subcommittee chairmen, from pointing to the data as evidence of INS’s incompetence and disregard for public safety; Rogers’ response was particularly harsh. Yet neither refuted the existence of the gap in recidivism. "* - Center for Immigration Studies
Kristin Butcher of Boston College and Anne Morrison Piehl of Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, using 1980 and 1990 Census Public Use Microdata Samples, found that among men aged 18-40 immigrants were less likely to be in correctional institutions than the native-born.10 If native-born men had the institutionalization rates of immigrants with the same demographic traits, the former’s institutionalized population would be only two-thirds the current size. The authors added that immigrants who had arrived at an earlier point in time were more likely to be in prison than recent entrants. This stood in contrast to the prevailing view of labor economists that earlier immigrants were more successful, and hence less likely to see crime as a substitute for gainful employment.
Butcher and Piehl conducted a separate study of several dozen U.S. metropolitan areas.11 Using data from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, the authors found recent immigrants had no significant effect either on crime rates or the change in rates over time. In a secondary analysis of individual data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, youths born abroad were significantly less likely than native-born youths to be criminally active.
John Hagan of the University of Toronto and Alberto Palloni of the University of Wisconsin also found a weak link between immigration and crime.12 Examining criminal justice data in two U.S. border cities, El Paso and San Diego, Hagan and Palloni argued immigrants are disproportionately represented among prison inmates because of biases in processes that lead from pre-trial detention to sentencing. The criminal justice system views immigrants as potential “flight risks,” they noted, and thus detains many suspects who otherwise (as citizens) would not be detained. The authors concluded that incarceration rates, depending on the national origin of the criminal, exaggerate by anywhere from three to seven times the crime rates of immigrants relative to citizens.
INS data, recently made available at the request of the House and Senate Appropriations subcommittees that fund the agency’s budget, show a lower recidivism rate for immigrants. Of the 35,318 criminal aliens INS released from custody (but not did not deport) during October 1994 and May 1999 there were 11,605 who went on to commit new crimes. This recidivism (repeat offender) rate of 37 percent was well below the 66 percent figure for the U.S. criminal population for the comparable period.13 This discrepancy did not dissuade Rep. Hal Rogers, R-Ky., and Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., the respective subcommittee chairmen, from pointing to the data as evidence of INS’s incompetence and disregard for public safety; Rogers’ response was particularly harsh. Yet neither refuted the existence of the gap in recidivism. "* - Center for Immigration Studies
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Illegal immigrate commit fewer crimes they always have and they always will. They have to in order to achieve their personal objectives
H
hoosiertoo
Guest
I’m still waiting to see what Daniel Marsh’s point is.
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Richardols
Guest
WND? Say no more; say no more. The Bilderbergers or the Trilateral Commission or the Illuminati probably put those aliens up to the murders.
L
Lance
Guest
Here are just 2 from many listed here:
immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
In a particularly tragic example of government inattention to illegal aliens who have run amock, one of the snipers who terrorized the Washington DC area for three weeks in October 2002 was a foreign national who had been apprehended the previous year. As a stowaway, he was required by law to be immediately deported back to his home country. Instead, the INS overroad the Border Patrol’s designation and released John Lee Malvo upon the unsuspecting American public. Had immigration law been followed by the INS, there would have been no two-man hit team and it is likely that there would have been no devastating series of murders. As columnist Michelle Malkin has observed, the INS releases dangerous alien criminals all the time.
Sister Helen Chaska was murdered in late summer 2002 by being strangled with her rosary beads — the beads were found imbedded in her neck. She was also raped, as was another nun who accompanied Sister Helen during walking prayers. Both women were in Klamath Falls, Oregon, doing missionary work when the crimes occurred. Her accused murderer is Maximiliano Esparza, who is in the United States illegally, and was convicted in 1988 of robbery and kidnapping in Los Angeles. He was sentenced to six years in prison, was released in 1992 and was on probation until 1995. By law, this man should have been deported to Mexico after his release in 1992. Instead, the INS allowed him to remain in the United States and commit even more heinous crimes. In this article, Michelle Malkin notes the Esparza crime and other examples of INS standard procedure of “catch and release” in violation of law.
Sentencing Update: On April 8, 2003, Esparza was sentenced to life in prison without parole. The sentence was a deal worked out with the prosecution to avoid a trial with the possibility of the death penalty. Klamath County District Attorney Ed Caleb said that he wanted to avoid forcing the other nun who had been attacked to testify. In addition, Caleb sent a bill to the Mexican consulate for the cost of investigating and prosecuting the case. Not much chance of getting any money, but it is a reasonable gesture.
immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html
In a particularly tragic example of government inattention to illegal aliens who have run amock, one of the snipers who terrorized the Washington DC area for three weeks in October 2002 was a foreign national who had been apprehended the previous year. As a stowaway, he was required by law to be immediately deported back to his home country. Instead, the INS overroad the Border Patrol’s designation and released John Lee Malvo upon the unsuspecting American public. Had immigration law been followed by the INS, there would have been no two-man hit team and it is likely that there would have been no devastating series of murders. As columnist Michelle Malkin has observed, the INS releases dangerous alien criminals all the time.
Sister Helen Chaska was murdered in late summer 2002 by being strangled with her rosary beads — the beads were found imbedded in her neck. She was also raped, as was another nun who accompanied Sister Helen during walking prayers. Both women were in Klamath Falls, Oregon, doing missionary work when the crimes occurred. Her accused murderer is Maximiliano Esparza, who is in the United States illegally, and was convicted in 1988 of robbery and kidnapping in Los Angeles. He was sentenced to six years in prison, was released in 1992 and was on probation until 1995. By law, this man should have been deported to Mexico after his release in 1992. Instead, the INS allowed him to remain in the United States and commit even more heinous crimes. In this article, Michelle Malkin notes the Esparza crime and other examples of INS standard procedure of “catch and release” in violation of law.
Sentencing Update: On April 8, 2003, Esparza was sentenced to life in prison without parole. The sentence was a deal worked out with the prosecution to avoid a trial with the possibility of the death penalty. Klamath County District Attorney Ed Caleb said that he wanted to avoid forcing the other nun who had been attacked to testify. In addition, Caleb sent a bill to the Mexican consulate for the cost of investigating and prosecuting the case. Not much chance of getting any money, but it is a reasonable gesture.
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hoosiertoo
Guest
If the perps were here legally, would the victims be any less dead?
The problem with illegal immigration is that the immigrants aren’t documented and there is no way to track them, and that they are a strain on services.
Since there is no political will to do anything about their presence, we need to at least offer guest visas - and deport the ones we find who don’t have them - and come up with a coherent naturalization policy, including background checks and health checks for eligibility for permanent visas.
Citizenship shouldn’t be granted to babies born of non-naturalized immigrants.
And the border should absolutely be closed. The open border policy is insane. It’s no more rational than leaving your door unlocked.
The problem with illegal immigration is that the immigrants aren’t documented and there is no way to track them, and that they are a strain on services.
Since there is no political will to do anything about their presence, we need to at least offer guest visas - and deport the ones we find who don’t have them - and come up with a coherent naturalization policy, including background checks and health checks for eligibility for permanent visas.
Citizenship shouldn’t be granted to babies born of non-naturalized immigrants.
And the border should absolutely be closed. The open border policy is insane. It’s no more rational than leaving your door unlocked.
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Richardols
Guest
No, but at least headlines could read, “Legal Immigrants Murder 12 Americans Daily.” Sounds better?
J
James_2_24
Guest
This is very wrong. I see that you are from Texas, do you happen to live near the border? I have lived near the border most of my life. The news of the violence of illegals in nothing new.
Besides this crime statistics prove you wrong:
In Los Angeles 95 perceont of all outstanding warrants for homicide, which total 1,200 to 1,500 target illegal aliens
Two-thirds of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens
Some 12,000 of the 20,000-strong 18th street gang that operates across Southern California are illegals.
According to the Washington Times, 80,000 “absconders”, illegal aliens convicted of such crimes as murder, rape, drug dealing, and child molestation, who have served their prison time are been ordered deported, are now loose again on America’s streets
Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in the Federal Bureau of Prison facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates.
Aliens in the United States account for 12 percent of the population, but 30 percent of the federal prison population.
In 2006, the U.S./Mexico Borders Counties Coalition, consisting of the 24 U.S. counties bordering Mexico, reported the findings of a two year study. If those 24 counties were the fifty-first state, that state would be number one in federal crimes due to drug and illegal immigration arrests.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Oh really
I am glad to here you know more than the FBI, would you help them out. So you found someone who said about 100,000 cases could be documented, over how long a period 10, 15, 20years? How does that compare to overall statistics, do you want to tell me or should I tell you?
- The FBI says your statistics are not available
- You will need to document over 200,000 cases per year to approach an equal crime rate, it seems you are way short. The OP needs 4400 murder convictions per year he is short also
- The prison systems says your statistics are not available either
- Would you with your infinite wisdom provide the border crimes into categories. I would like to see how many of those crimes are by US citizens is that number 1%, 20%, more? Or are the Mexican smuggling the drugs for fun.
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James_2_24
Guest
Actually those FBI stats AGREE with me. If you would be so truthful as to read between the lines. Here is the quote taken above from:
*"In the 1980s and 1990s researchers have concluded, or at least have lent support to the conclusion, that immigrants commit proportionately no more than and possibly even fewer crimes than native-born citizens. The General Accounting Office, analyzing FBI records, found that foreign-born individuals accounted for about 19 percent of the total arrests in 1985 in six selected major cities.8 The foreign-born represented 19.6 percent of the aggregate population. While “foreign-born” can mean refer to citizens as well as aliens,9 the study makes an implicit case that immigrant crime is in line with the rest of the country.
*
Foreign-born make up 20 percent of arrests in 1985 in six selected major cities. Hmm, in 1985 foreign-born made up only 6 percent of the population but they accounted for 20 percent of arrests. Odd how the FBI disagrees with me. As for the false stat of 19.6 percent listed above, I refer you to: **Source: U.S. Bureau of the Census
Internet Release date: March 9, 1999 **
*
Kristin Butcher of Boston College and Anne Morrison Piehl of Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, using 1980 and 1990 Census Public Use Microdata Samples, found that among men aged 18-40 immigrants were less likely to be in correctional institutions than the native-born.10 If native-born men had the institutionalization rates of immigrants with the same demographic traits, the former’s institutionalized population would be only two-thirds the current size. The authors added that immigrants who had arrived at an earlier point in time were more likely to be in prison than recent entrants. This stood in contrast to the prevailing view of labor economists that earlier immigrants were more successful, and hence less likely to see crime as a substitute for gainful employment.
Butcher and Piehl conducted a separate study of several dozen U.S. metropolitan areas.11 Using data from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports and the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, the authors found recent immigrants had no significant effect either on crime rates or the change in rates over time. In a secondary analysis of individual data from the National Longitudinal Survey of Youth, youths born abroad were significantly less likely than native-born youths to be criminally active.
John Hagan of the University of Toronto and Alberto Palloni of the University of Wisconsin also found a weak link between immigration and crime.12 Examining criminal justice data in two U.S. border cities, El Paso and San Diego, Hagan and Palloni argued immigrants are disproportionately represented among prison inmates because of biases in processes that lead from pre-trial detention to sentencing. The criminal justice system views immigrants as potential “flight risks,” they noted, and thus detains many suspects who otherwise (as citizens) would not be detained. The authors concluded that incarceration rates, depending on the national origin of the criminal, exaggerate by anywhere from three to seven times the crime rates of immigrants relative to citizens. *
Funny how “Hagan and Palloni” admit that immigrants are disproportionately represented among prison inmates becuase of “biases”. Of course they have to find an excuse for this. Every group that finds itself in prison always plays the race or ethnicity card in order to give an excuse for their being in prison.
By the way are you Catholic? You come off very sarcastic and so upset when someone disagrees with you.
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James_2_24
Guest
Futhermore how can illegal immigrants commit fewer crimes than the rest of the population? The day they step over the border they are commiting a crime. So 100% of illegals have commited crimes and continue to do so when they do things in this country that they are not allowed to do.
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James_2_24
Guest
Anyway… Hoosiertoo is right on track. There are a great many problems with our immigration policy. We should focus on shutting downt he border and stop allowing “anchor” babies.
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
could you site the FBI statistics?
umhfrom what?
which population? are you really saying men in Arizona to not commit many crimes in New York? If New York has very little criminals from Arizona can we conclude people from Arizona commit practically no crime? is that basically the way you did it
if the data is false why are you posting it?
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Texas_Roofer
Guest
Funny how “Hagan and Palloni” admit that immigrants are disproportionately represented among prison inmates becuase of “biases”. Of course they have to find an excuse for this. Every group that finds itself in prison always plays the race or ethnicity card in order to give an excuse for their being in prison. you said that, they did not. They said the lawyers request detetion as flight risk is high. that means by walking out of the south side of town the court loses jurisdiction of the person, regardless of skin color
Yes I am Catholic, I guess my frustration shows at times, there have been many false postings in the illegal immigration forum.
In summary the above posting ( set A) does not show any crime increase from illegal immigration. I tell you a simple fact is to increase ones debt in order to cross the border, commit a crime, and be deported is insanity, and thus uncommon. Mexicans do not like to report crime, because they know it may cause the Mexican scrutiny issues, which is a huge problem. If an illegal immigrate is robbed he probably will never report it because he can be deported. If he is able to register as a guest worker then he could report all crimes, thus helping the police and reducing crime in the US. Maybe border crime is so high in part because criminal go to the border to prey upon illegal immigrates that will not report the crime?
If you could show and FBI illegal immigrant crime statistics that would help, I have looked in the FBI statistics for that but can not find anything close. I have read it does not exist. It appears they classify the person as “white”
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MikeWM
Guest
I fail to see what that proves. Surely warrants are harder to execute on someone who is already living illegally, ie. the police don’t know where they are. A far more useful statistic would be how many of the warrants that are issued are for illegal aliens, not how many are left that the police can’t do anything with.
I don’t see the problem here either. If they were legal and had committed those crimes, they’d still be out of prison after serving their sentence. If prison isn’t working to rehabilitate these people, you need to change the prison system.
It seems that aliens would by definition be more likely to commit federal crimes. Again, a more useful statistic would be all jails, not just the federal ones. More useful still would be the number of crimes, rather than the number of convictions. With some justification, I think courts are likely to pass harsher sentences on aliens than on citizens.
This whole post is a great example of a set of statistics that sound alarming, but when you examine them, they don’t show much at all.
Mike
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