Illegal Immigration a Mortal Sin

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Here is some more:
usccb.org/comm/archives/2007/07-187.shtml
It (Faithful Citizenship) also affirms the obligation to promote the common good by combating such threats to human life and dignity as hunger, poverty, racism, unjust immigration policies, and unjust war.
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usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/FCStatement.pdf
The second is the misuse of these necessary moral distinctions as a way of
dismissing or ignoring other serious threats to human life and dignity. Racism and
other unjust discrimination, the use of the death penalty, resorting to unjust war,
the use of torture,
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4 war crimes, the failure to respond to those who are suffering
from hunger or a lack of health care, or an unjust immigration policy are all serious
moral issues that challenge our consciences and require us to act.
 
When I first saw this thread I assumed it was a spoof, or that it was posted by someone completely unfamiliar with Christianity or Catholicism. I am shocked to see that there have been pages of debate over this topic. How can failing to simply conform to the regulations of a worldly government be a sin of any kind, let alone a mortal sin? Civil law and moral law often intersect, but passing a civil law does not create a moral law, and certainly does not introduce a new category of mortal sin.
 
Geremia said:
The Lair of the Catholic Cavemen blog proved, with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, that illegal immigrants are almost always in a state of mortal sin.Why are bishops not teaching their flocks this? Instead, they constantly oppose any opposition not to deport illegals, going through theological gymnastics that it would actually increase crime rate, split up families, etc., when in fact it encourages people to break more laws and ultimately to offend God, from Whom all civil authority originates. But what about the state of the souls of the illegals? Why are not the bishops primarily caring for these souls? Also, why is immigration seemingly more important than abortion? Is it because the U.S. and the U.S. Catholic church is trying to make up for the 50 million missing U.S. citizens lost to abortion? Evil means (tolerating illegal activity) do not justify good ends (that the U.S. have more Catholics). Deus, adiuva nos.
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illegal immigration is a grave matter to the state, not to the Church or to God
 
choy said:
illegal immigration is a grave matter to the state, not to the Church or to God
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Agreed, this isn’t a mortal sin.

That said, its stupid to have open borders like we do now, with no security either on the fence (both north and south) or within the states itself.

Nor is it common sense to let just ANYONE or EVERYONE in, especially if they got in illegally while the one trying to get in legally has to wait a long while.

I mean, can a nation even survive doing what we’re doing? 🤷
 
TMC said:
How can failing to simply conform to the regulations of a worldly government be a sin of any kind, let alone a mortal sin?
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It isn’t a mortal sin, certainly. It can definitely be a sin.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1897 "Human society can be neither well-ordered nor prosperous unless it has some people invested with legitimate authority to preserve its institutions and to devote themselves as far as is necessary to work and care for the good of all."15

By “authority” one means the quality by virtue of which persons or institutions make laws and give orders to men and expect obedience from them.

1898 Every human community needs an authority to govern it.16 The foundation of such authority lies in human nature. It is necessary for the unity of the state. Its role is to ensure as far as possible the common good of the society.

1899 The authority required by the moral order derives from God: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."17
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Civil law and moral law often intersect, but passing a civil law does not create a moral law, and certainly does not introduce a new category of mortal sin.
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That is certainly true. There is a moral obligation for civil law to reflect and abide moral law.
  • Marty Lund
 
Stylites said:
Exactly. The politicians who write the laws (which some try to worship) purposely limit the number of valid visas available which are way under the real numbers which our society needs, and hence the existence of so-called “illegal immigration” when it really ought to be called what it is: a purposeful and cruel withholding of needed immigration visas by cowardly politicians catering to special interests and mean-spirited constituents.

.
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That is the big lie in the immigration debate. Why didn’t Democrats change the number of visas since they now have control of everything in Washington? Because they want to use this as an excuse for Comprehensive Immigration Reform.

The number of visas needed is far less than the number of illegal aliens working in the US.
 
Viki63 said:
I have to disagree with this. I married an undocumented immigrant, and don’t think that either he or I “harbor criminal tendencies,” beyond being subject to original sin like everyone else. He is probably the only person to have crossed the border illegally in a wheelchair, by the way, and I absolutely believe he was led to do so by the Spirit of God, under the protection of his guardian angel. He would be dead now if he hadn’t done so.

I spent last evening with a young woman, 8 months pregnant, whose husband was recently deported. She’s now living in homeless shelters until she gives birth, without access to food, money, transportation, except what our crisis pregnancy center can scrape up to help out. No criminal tendencies there that I can see, just a desire to give her child a decent life.
I totally agree with JReducation’s post # 45, which explains the church’s stand on deportation, that it’s against human dignity.
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Everything she gets from the government is at the expense of US citizens. Her anchor baby will represent a subversive element in the population for decades. We must take care of her on humanitarian grounds, however.

Funny that you have no empathy for the 25 Americans killed by illegal aliens every day.

If we stop all female invaders at the border that would end the problem of anchor babies. If I were at the border, I would chase down any female attempting to enter illegally.
 
rodomonte said:
Everything she gets from the government is at the expense of US citizens. Her anchor baby will represent a subversive element in the population for decades. We must take care of her on humanitarian grounds, however.
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You know this how? We have one subversive element in our parish who is a seminarian studying for the priesthood.
Funny that you have no empathy for the 25 Americans killed by illegal aliens every day.
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Slander. Uncharitable slander.
If we stop all female invaders at the border that would end the problem of anchor babies. If I were at the border, I would chase down any female attempting to enter illegally.
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Okay. You are really painting an interesting picture of yourself. I would like to remind you that this is a Catholic website and even disagreement is supposed to be conducted charitably.
 
Please remember that your posts must be charitable to all and that they do not endorse or promote any behavior that is in conflict with the moral teachings of the Church. You can disagree. But stick to your reasons for disagreeing.

Thank You

Thomas Casey
Moderator
 
pnewton said:
You know this how? We have one subversive element in our parish who is a seminarian studying for the priesthood.

Slander. Uncharitable slander.

Okay. You are really painting an interesting picture of yourself. I would like to remind you that this is a Catholic website and even disagreement is supposed to be conducted charitably.
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Accusing me of uncharitable slander is, well, uncharitable slander. Even the OP did not do that.

Obama made this outrageous statement in his immigration speech of July 1:

“These women, and men and women across this country like them, remind us that immigrants have always helped to build and defend this country -– and that being an American is not a matter of blood or birth. It’s a matter of faith. It’s a matter of fidelity to the shared values that we all hold so dear. That’s what makes us unique. That’s what makes us strong. Anybody can help us write the next great chapter in our history.”

He says being an American is not a matter of blood or birth. He should be impeached. Obama is the first anti-American president. I think this statement presages his granting of amnesty by executive order. If that happens, there will be civil unrest on a massive scale.

Over a million patriots have died fighting for America since its founding, and Obama has just spit on their graves. They didn’t die so illegal invaders could be made citizens by a stroke of the pen. They didn’t die for Mexico. They died for America and Americans.

Remember during the campaign he said he would be president of all Americans. Yet he returned a bust of Churchill given as a gift by the British because his father in Kenya was mistreated by the British during the independence movement there. Without Churchill we would be speaking German, but Obama must get even for a personal greivance and disregard the larger context of Churchill. He might as well take down the portrait of George Washington in the White House because he owned slaves.
 
Slander is only slander when it is untrue. One is not a racist because he opposes illegal immigration. Likewise one does not lack empathy for crime victims because they are supportive of illegal immigrants. Rhetoric at least needs to have a modicum of truth embeded in it.
 
pnewton said:
Slander is only slander when it is untrue. One is not a racist because he opposes illegal immigration. Likewise one does not lack empathy for crime victims because they are supportive of illegal immigrants. Rhetoric at least needs to have a modicum of truth embeded in it.
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Well, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. The solution to save 25 American lives per day is to stop all illegal immigration across the southern border. You get the bad with the good, but I guess those 25 lives are just collalteral damage to you justified by all the illegals that get to improve their lives. No one should die so someone else can improve their life. Everyone has a right to life. No one has a right to a better life.

Empathy is not enough when you could prevent those murders in the first place by enforcing immigration laws and securing the border.
 
rodomonte said:
Obama made this outrageous statement in his immigration speech of July 1:

“These women, and men and women across this country like them, remind us that immigrants have always helped to build and defend this country -– and that being an American is not a matter of blood or birth. It’s a matter of faith. It’s a matter of fidelity to the shared values that we all hold so dear. That’s what makes us unique. That’s what makes us strong. Anybody can help us write the next great chapter in our history.”

He says being an American is not a matter of blood or birth. He should be impeached.
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I am not a fan of President Obama, but to give him his due, he’s just saying that most of us Americans come of immigrant stock. Perfectly true.

What solutions do we have for the problem? I would vote for securing the borders, and making visas for visitors and workers easier to get, and providing enough of them. Seems like a no-brainer, but nobody in Washington seems to be working on a solution, just talking about it.
 
rodomonte said:
Accusing me of uncharitable slander is, well, uncharitable slander. Even the OP did not do that.

Obama made this outrageous statement in his immigration speech of July 1:

“These women, and men and women across this country like them, remind us that immigrants have always helped to build and defend this country -– and that being an American is not a matter of blood or birth. It’s a matter of faith. It’s a matter of fidelity to the shared values that we all hold so dear. That’s what makes us unique. That’s what makes us strong. Anybody can help us write the next great chapter in our history.”

He says being an American is not a matter of blood or birth. He should be impeached.
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Impeached for stating an obvious historical reality? Or at worst, for giving an interpretation of American identity with which you happen to disagree?
Obama is the first anti-American president. I think this statement presages his granting of amnesty by executive order. If that happens, there will be civil unrest on a massive scale.
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Over a million patriots have died fighting for America since its founding, and Obama has just spit on their graves. They didn’t die so illegal invaders could be made citizens by a stroke of the pen.
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Have you asked them?
They didn’t die for Mexico. They died for America and Americans.
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This is glaringly illogical. If illegal immigrants are given “amnesty,” they will be Americans. Your position logically implies that only the descendants of the inhabitants of the 13 colonies at the time of independence can be Americans. Do you really mean to maintain this? If not, then what on earth are you saying?

Edwin
 
rodomonte said:
Well, if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
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That is not true. In fact, it is an impossibility, since no one can be part of the solution to** every** one of the worlds problems. It is a crazy logic that makes a person responsible for every problem they do not work at solving.
The solution to save 25 American lives per day is to stop all illegal immigration across the southern border. …
Empathy is not enough when you could prevent those murders in the first place by enforcing immigration laws and securing the border.
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I have asked before and no one has given any evidence. Where do you get your statistics to show that illegal immigrants commit more violent crime than legal immigrants, or any other demographic in America? Get past the rhetoric and give some meat.
 
vz71 said:
The Catechism specifies what is an unjust law. The current immigration laws do not fit the bill.
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In your opinion. I believe the preference against the poor makes it unjust. However, I would like to point out that the Catechism does teach that those who oppose unjust laws must be willing to suffer the consequences.

Just a reminder before you march in support of illegal immigraion.
 
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